Involving the wife in your recovery can go either way. Transparency is necessary but there’s really something cruel about involving her too much, like you’re rubbing your issues in her face or trying to manipulate her. For example with my ex-wife, I feel like it would have gone over better with her just to say I’m taking some men’s vitamins or something. We had other issues though. I’m just saying, tread with care.
This is true. What I mean more is being honest about when I am not accountable. The other day I was triggered emotionally and took out my emotions on her. I apologized and told her it was me not her. Those are the instances I mean. Tawaab is spot on.
Wow, so many replies. Thanks! Let me quote each of you to keep it clean. I was way too passive in the last years. No involvement in the household, being lazy, not caring for myself (think outward appearence or health) and also not being involved with raising my child. I know those issues and I am fixing them as we speak. I hired a personal trainer to gain mental and physical strength (and hopefully selfconfidence). I will join a sports club to make new friends and not be around her 24/7. I am much more active in the household (cleaning after the cats, making sure there is always enough toilet paper in the bathrooms. washing dishes, preparing the lunchbox for the kiddie, making the beds, you get the idea. I also play more with my kiddie, read her books, draw stuff and just have valuable family time overall. So I think I got that going for me. I also want to learn to cook (new skill). Short: I want to grow up. It's not quick, but I am on my way. I think this is exactly what you are referring to. Yes, that makes sense. Once we move to Spain, my wife will be working a tpyical 9-5 job and I am a freelancer. So I can stay at home, do my work, and be more responsible for the household (grocieries, cleaning and what not). It will make me more independent and my wife will see that I am in fact able to care for my family and our place. As I said I will keep using a personal trainer and would love to join a sports club to make some new friends, gain selfconfidence and just "do my thing" once in a while. She is definitely very much attached to me emotionally (just as I am to her). I doubt that is the issue. It is much more likely the things mentioned above. This referred to the "lazy me" who wouldn't be involved in the household/family. It surely also refers to my sexual inexperience/insecurity, but most likely about my former me. She did not mean it as an insult (we would not hurt each other ever intentionally, but just to make a point or explain something). And it made understand what she meant. It was an eye-opener. All good. I am very thankful for that actually because it got my ass moving. Yes, EXACTLY. I am doing all I can possibly do. Therapy, personal trainer, more involvement in the household/family, learning new skills like cooking, moving to another place, help her get a job (which she desperately wants to feel useful) and what not. I will leave no stone unturned to keep making progress. I will definitely not relapse as my wife and family is my biggest motivation. I am nothing without them. They are my life. Not sure about that. Yes, I keep getting distracted as I am anxious about doing SOMETHING and probably pushing it a bit too much. The thing is I feel absolutely useless at sex. Let me explain. When someone asks me to dance, I just stand there like an idiot and don't know how to move. They tell me "feel the music", "just let yourself go", but I can't. I just stand there and feel weird, uncomfortable and out of place. It's the same sex-wise. I can see my wife naked (and she is absolutely stunning, trust me) and I just stand there like an idiot not knowing what to do. Not sure if that is my insecurity, inexperience or sheer incapacity. And I have no idea if that will ever change (or how). I just don't have sexual INSTINCTS it seems. Something is missing in my brain. We have spoken about this and I got her confirmation that she won't cheat while I am recovering. Then again, we don't know how long that will take nor how long she can actually withstand her sex drive. Also, it's not cheating if she tells me all about it I guess. But yes, I get your point. It seems like she is more and more inclined to give me a chance. And I hope she does. I do that all the time, and I think I do it too much. We have pretty much the same conversations over and over again and it's just too much emotional talk in the end. It's fine in the beginning, but what I understand is that it's enough to say it once or twice. What I need to do now is ACT, not repeat what I have already said a thousand times. Yes, this is pretty much my hope. A combination of overcoming the addiction with professional help and reinventing myself as a caring husband and father who gets involved as much as possible within the household and his family. I want to be the leader of the family. If I need to make my hands dirty or have my back hurt, fine. I'll do everything necessary to "man up" and show my wife that I can be a grown up. This includes being a good father who teaches his kid new things and shares valuable time with her, but also taking responsibilites at home (especially as I am working from home). That in combination with personal trainer, professional help and me taking time for myself in a sports club or weekly "expat meetings" is all I can possibly imagine that I can do. And I want to do all of that and pursue my recovery with full power.
Only the first 2 things (therapy, strength training) can help with your recovery. The other stuff you mentioned like doing chores makes no difference. You think it’s something wrong with you but it’s actually just the porn addiction. You became addicted at 16 and never really got away from it so you think the addict brain is normal. We’re here for you man, I really want you to succeed
Thanks once more for your input and I hope you guys stick with me during my recovery! It's really appreciated to read all your comments. I think it's a bit of cultural miscommunication. In the end I am a German hearing what my Mexican wife says and trying to communicate it to you Americans (or wherever you are from). Bits and pieces simply get lost in translation and it might sound worse than it actually is. To me she did not mean disrespectfully. Yes, agreed. I certainly won't be the "household slave / good dad" type of guy just for her to exploit me and enjoy her life at the fullest with anyone she wants. No, it's not about that. It's about having a healthy balance between us where we both have our responsibilities and where we both respect each other and just "do our part" for the sake of the family. I totally get your point. It's really about finding a compromise in the end. Will I be able to improve sexually? Who knows, I can't tell. Will it be enough? Again, who knows. But that is something little worth discussing now as it's far in the future. We agreed that she will give me a chance/time to recover and "see what happens". In the worst case, we can still see if we can get some sort of "mutual agreement" (the risky it may be). But that is the last straw really to make her happy. I will try everything else in my power first. Absolutely. I myself don't want to be the lazy ass not doing anything in the household and not caring for his kid. Definitely not. I had that sort of parent myself and it's not ideal, let's put it that way. I want to reboot to discover my sexual self, but also to show my wife that I have some sort of desire, too. So it's me being intrigued how I really am once (fully) recovered and how it must feel being aroused by my wife. But of course also enjoying my wife sexually (and her enjoying me, hopefully). It's both really. The self creation has less to do with the addiction as such but just feeling myself like a useful man/husband who is capable of being indendent. I want to get shit done and not always rely on others when I want/need something. See above please. I see it as two separate things: Porn addiction recovery + journey of becoming a responsible/independent man. Thank you so much! I really hope you are right. It feels to uncomfortable, weird, insecure and just wrong to not react to my wife's attempts, seduces, naked body etc. I know she is georgeous. I have eyes that can see it. I know in my heart how she feels for me and how much she would love me to feel the desire. I sense it. But I don't have those "instincts" how to react to all of that. And that is frustrating both of us A LOT.
Hi there once again! And thanks for the input as always! That's exactly how I feel. Motivated, not offended. I don't want her to perceive me this way and I will do all I can to "grow up". Yes, we will be working on that in future therapy sessions. From what I think it is most likely a mix of loneliness, desinterest by parents, lack of perspective for the future and boredom. Maybe also a bit of stress. When it all started I was living alone as a student (in another city), had no contacts there, felt very lonely, did not enjoy my studies, and was bored to death for a lot of time. My parents did not care much what I did "as long as I study" and when it was exam time (especially writing academic papers), stress was also a thing. I think that got me into it. Years later (living with my wife) it was pure habbit 90% of the time. Maybe stress-related or boredom-related now and then, but mostly just habbit I would say. I was definitely no more lonely, had a future (wife + work), my parents were no longer important to me (as I had my wife). So the only triggers left now are boredom and stress. Boredom is gone since I am trying to change my lifestyle (just way too many things to do to ever feel bored). Stress is an issue obviously, but my personal trainer, work and my commitment to the house and family make sure I simply have no energy nor time to engage in any PMO (apart from my own motivation to not relpase). So I think overall I am on a good path. Hmm, yes. That sounds plausible, but honestly I don't care what others think about my dancing skills. I have quite a strong personality and just don't mind if I can dance or what people would say. Sexual insecurity, yes, that makes more sense. Then again, the addiction started when I had no partner. By then, I never had tried sex. So maybe it was also "curiosity to see things". Anxiety, hmm, I don't think that's it in my case. I think "sexual insecurity" would be the most dangerous trigger, but since it's the exact opposite to what I want to achieve (discovering my own sexuality and feel real libido towards a woman), I have a huge motivation to see "who I really am as a man". It gives me a huge motivation boost to not fall back, even if I am absolutely insecure sexually. In either way I have a heck of a motivation to never watch a single pic or vid of porn again in my life. It's way too damaging for both me and everyone around me. I'd rather go to the gym, play with my kid, clean something or learn something, but not waste time of my life doing that shit ever again. Trust me on that one. Enough is enough.
Here's the English definition of anxiety from Oxford. I added it into a sentence at the end. We all have a certain level of anxiety in most aspects of life and this sure seems like something I would suggest doing some self reflection on. ** a feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome. ** "he feels a surge of anxiety when his wife initiates sex and he is unable to please her." I have no doubt you have anxiety from this. The question is... Is it a drive for your addiction or not. That's where the self reflection and talking to yourself will do a lot of good it may not be something that triggers you to watch porn, it also may not have been why you started using p but over time you have evolved and started using it now to medicate that feeling of insecurity. Don't disgard the possibility of that being a trigger at some point. This sure caused me to crash and burn recently by not realizing that there are so many reasons we get the urge to PMO. It will be good to go over triggers with a therapist. I suggest this also... Any time you get the urge to look at P instantly ask yourself why? What are you feeling? What were you just thinking about? What will PMO really solve if you relapsed? Write it down if you need to. In my last streak I was up to 30 days. I had stress of being self employed and thinking about to many future things that need done and it gets overwhelming. This is a huge trigger for me. I felt my brain SNAP and have a sudden urge for porn. Only to realize over and over that I had just been thinking and stressing over things in my business. It really got funny to me how quickly the urge would come and go once I identified it as the issue. I really was on a roll in changing my brains response to that trigger What got me to relapse was a trigger that I wasn't preparing myself for. It wasn't one I dealt with on a day to day basis but did once it popped up. It's one I identified as a trigger but I honestly just thought it wasn't a big one. It definitely was a sexual insecurity and resentment that I have against my wife that needs addressed. Im not excusing the relapse of course but I wasn't emotionally prepared to deal with that properly in the moment. Had I taken the time in that moment to think, write, and process my feelings in that moment I think I wouldn't have relapsed. But since I wasn't really thinking of that as being a trigger my natural response took over. The reason I bring this up is through this work I've sure learned a lot about myself I didn't know before. And I think most P users started early in life and used it as almost a coping mechanism similar to a baby sucking their thumb. I think the initial drive comes from a desire to explore sex. But in time it becomes a way to "feel good on demand". Like a little security blanket any time we need it. We have the sexual interest in it but start to use it to escape from things like stress, anxiety, and other problems because we've learned it's the fast track to feeling better. We don't even really know why we do it because it's always been a huge part of our lives. As far as loneliness I can totally relate with you. I've always been a social person. But once I came home to take over the family business it put me in a certain amount of solitude where I was just really with my wife daughter and parents on a day to day basis. I'm definitely working on establishing old and new friendships that remove that loneliness from my life. And I think you are going to be able to do the same! This all is my poor attempt at explaining what I think is meant by establishing new neuropathways. Or at least my attempts to do so. Hope you find it useful!
Yes, in this particular case I definitely have anxiety when it comes to sexual encounters or even intimacy. This is fueled by the fact that my wife seeks (good and frequent) sex. That is something I just can't offer. So there is a lot of pressure to improve. And that improvement again is something nobody can guarantee. I am in therapy, I will go the sexologist (got an appointment in 3 weeks) and I will go to the gym and do everything else what I already mentioned to become a better person overall. But again, I am not sure if I will ever feel libido/sex drive and if I will know how to act sexually in the future. I just cannot imagine how this even feels like and it scares me to be honest. Will I ever "normalize sexually"? Will I get libido for the first time in my life (towards a woman)? Will I get those "sexual instincts" and not just be some insecure weirdo not knowing what to do? It's scaring me a lot and it causes anxiety for sure. Not just for me, but also for my wife who is already desperate for sex as we speak.
Hopefully you're right! So one more day has passed and I am still going, even though I am in an emotional rollercoaster and I am not sure if my wife understands how much of a struggle it is. It feels so bad to be insecure, anxious and not knowing if desire will eventually come back. I also feel really bad for her as she feels insecure about herself as I have absolutely no interest in anything vaguely sexual right now. It feels like rejecting her which of course is a lot of emotional stress for both of us and she is experiencing lots of insecurity and frustration (not just now but for all those years I was addicted). I hope she has the patience to see what the future brings.
No desire to look at porn whatsoever. I did have a few images in my head like flashbacks but found them disgusting and threw them in my imaginary bin. We did have sex once as I said, but it was as always since I am really weird and don't know what to do. Basically my wife does not find me sexually attractive, most likely because I am just not sexually doing anything right. So no surprise in the end. Sexologist appointment is in 3 weeks. We will go to my councelling session tomorrow together and I will ask the therapist discretly if she could/should also speak to her and help her out. Or maybe together as a couple.
Thank you very much for your detailed input once more. This is exactly what I feel like I am. Insecure, unconfident, weak, emotional, sensible, understanding, jealous, unattractive, needy, sexually inactive. I want/need my wife a lot. Maybe too much. It feels like obsession/posession almost. Sometimes I feel like I am taking her the room the breathe. And I don't feel like it's healthy. Hence why we also decided to move to Spain. She'll stop being the housewife, will get her own selfconfidence back, get to know people on her own, have her own circle of friends, room to breathe. Meanwhile, I will learn to live on my own, learn many new skills, show my wife I can be responsible. And during all of that my recovery continues and hopefully libido comes back and I can also perform better. I will talk about all of those points with my therapist as well. I don't think she would leave me. She just loves me too much on an a level beyond sex and "primitive needs". Hence why she is still with me after 10 years of bad sex, me being addicted and me causing so much distress, frustration and pain. She would have been gone a long time ago if she would not want to be with me / love me. But yes, I need to change a lot of things and show her both that I am responsible man, an independent man and someone who is a leader of our family and not just a part of it. Sexually of course I stick to my recovery and hopefully, one day, I "learn to have sex". She told me right in the eyes we have no "sexual chemistry", which hurts a lot, but it's true. I have no sexual phantasies. I have no idea what I am doing when I am with her (in a sexual context). I have no idea how to treat her, make her excited, play with her, love her (sexually). It's just as frustrating for her as it is for me. And all of that is likely the reason why she says things like "man child" or "more like a son than my husband". It hurts of course. But it opened my eyes and it needs to change. Easy as that, but also easier said than done. I feel like once we are in Spain and she is doing a classic 9-5 job, I will be "thrown into the water" and be forced to be all that on my own - responsible, independent, leading. I can't call her at her job asking for stuff or waiting for her to come home to do stuff on her own while I sit there watching Netflix or whatever. Nope. Maybe, with time, we can solve all of those issues. I am not only talking about my addiction/recovery (which of course also takes time), but also her recognizing me as "being reinvented", "being her man". That's the key here I think. Right now during my flatline, it's just so much emotional stress and I feel extremely weak, insecure, needy etc. I don't even stand myself and it must be a pain for my wife to see me like this. Totally.
Keep in mind that moving places does not change behavior. It may help short term but eventually the same issues will arise as key issues again as the moving will not solve the fundamental issues you've mentioned. Don't put all your hope into the move solving things and then feel terrible that it isn't fixing things. That's a question only she can answer obviously. I think it's much less likely to happen if you kick your addiction as naturally you will be a better man. I don't think many marriages can withstand the issues you are dealing with long term without some improvement. Thankfully you are aware of many issues and as long as you are open to addressing them that's a good thing! This i think is something most P users deal with. Goes back to that PMO makes you less motivated and emotionally checked out. I think it would be extremely good for you to go establish new friendships. We all as humans desire human to human connection. If you feel like you are emotionally smothering your wife you already are. Join a club, men's group, church (if that's your thing) go to gym and join a recreational sport league or something. I think that will really help you from being so emotionally needy with your wife.
I think its unlikely that you're aesexual. Based on what you wrote, it feels more likely that you're depressed than aesexual. A low sex drive can be due to a lot of things in life, depression and stress being at the top of the list. I'm a primary care doctor in my residency training right now. People who deal with stress often report low libido and it has to do with our fight/flight response. The act of arousal is part of our parasympathetic nervous system. Stressful environments stimulate our sympathetic nervous system which prioritizes keeping us alive but not functions like sexual arousal or erections. This feature is troublesome in the modern world where we spend less time stressed while out running lions and more time stressed about chronic issues like finances and marital strife. I believe porn can be contributing to what you have, but like with most people here, I feel that there might be a mental health element to the story as well. I wish you the best on your journey my friend.
Thank you very much, both of you, for your comments! @warf: Yes, I am aware that changing the place does not change the behavior. However, since my mother-in-law will no longer be around and since my wife will be working (hopefully she finds something), I will be thrown into cold water where I need to learn how to do things (if I want to or not). I think she will be happier having a job, I will be happier learning to be independent (mature) and we both will be happy living in a place with higher quality of life and having an extra income (not just mine). So it's a win-win for all if all works out. @lovinghusband: Yes, mos likely. One thing is porn addiction and its consequences, but another is my personality as such which has formed for many many years. I just came back from my weekly therapy session and the questionnaires seem to indicate that I have a dependent-depressive personality. So basically I depend on others (my wife mostly) to make decisions, to lead me, to instruct me, to do stuff. Therefore I am way too passive and absent which in turn makes me depressive because I know it's wrong and because I know I am just unable to do many essential things. We talked about it and I will try to change all that by learning new essential skills. It's pretty much exactly what I have written already, just being confirmed scientifically in therapy.
please keep us updated on your progress. I'm proud of you for recognizing the issue and getting help. I believe in you.
Since you are an introvert it might actually not be a good thing to work from home. Working in person with others might help but obviously if you have a great job you love there's other ways to do the same thing. Maybe get some friends together and go out to eat or something. Your wife working and having some space away from family sure probably will do a lot of good too. Glad you are doing well!
Three weeks now. Today morning we had the chance to sleep a bit longer while my mother-in-law took our kid. I felt some libido and desire to touch her and really enjoyed it (actually got an erection doing it). It was a real erection and it felt really great. However, she said she didn't feel anything. Literally: "It felt nice, but rather to fall asleep than to get excited". So that is a bit of an issue. She is normally very inactive in the morning (much more active in the evening), so that could explain it. I also didn't actually try to get her excited. All I wanted was to cuddle a bit and touch here and there. Still a bit sad she did not enjoy it as much as I did. I think the reason is that she is used to me "not being great in bed" and simply is bored (literally not attracted) by me in this context. Or it goes further (pretty much what we discussed all the time).
So yesterday we had "sex" again. I put it in quotation marks because she excites herself with her toy (since she cant get excited with me) and I needed to touch myself as well slightly to get a good erection. There was not so much anxiety this time as there was less pressure. It sounds weird, but we both know our sex life is bad, so we don't expect much out of it, but at least there is not much pressure. The problem here is that I literally come instantly. I am barely "in", we move for a few seconds and I already feel I am getting to my limit. It sucks really, as we both want it to be longer. We barely start and I feel it's about to be over any moment. If we're lucky, it lasts a few minutes. I read it can also be related to the addiction and should therefore improve over time. But any input would be appreciated. I should probably add that my wife is absolutely stunning and just watching her during sex makes me unable to withstand much longer. It is quite frustrating for both of us (as always). She wants more since we barely started. And I want more but it's not very enjoyable if I think about "please not yet, last longer" all the time.
Hi Warf, Thank you very much for your kind words! Yes, I love to share that moment as well, but it feels a bit forced/unnatural. Simply because she isnt excited about me (bit of a one-way-road there). Of course the sex itself isnt great. She did not manage to come yesterday (not even with her toy), so that was also a bit of an unhappy end for her (let alone that I didn't last more than maybe 3-4 minutes). Not having PMO and being "fully loaded" makes sense with regards to PE. I hope this normalizes over time (just as the libido). My wife has no uterus anymore (health issues we went through, both of us, as I also only have one testicle). But at least nothing "bad" can happen as we don't more kids definitely. Also helps a lot with sex since we can do "whatever we want". In fact my wife has agreed that, in case she never feels anything for me but I have a full recovery, that I can basically "take her" whenever I want. So that's something, but of course I would much more prefer her feeling desire for me as well (so it is NOT a one-way-street).
We just tried to have another round of (bad) sex like yesterday. I did start to get an erection when she sat on me, kissing me. It sounds stupid, but when I noticed I still had my shoes on for some reason and touched the cold floor with my bare feet, the erection was gone and I could not even enjoy her kisses anymore. Everything was gone. I feel very empty in these moments, and very disappointed. Also because I cannot imagine how my feel must feel about it. She tries everything.
