I've come to the conclusion PIED is actually just Low T

It's more to do with low dopamine caused by porn-induced desensitization. I'm sure low testosterone does contribute to the problem to some degree, but it's not the sole culprit.

There is a correlation between porn use and testosterone levels. Excessive masturbation doesn't directly lower the amount of testosterone produced by the body, but it does lower the amount of androgen receptors in the body, which means that the testosterone won't be efficiently absorbed and utilized.

 

Funny you say that. I had my testosterone levels checked recently and my total was about 473 which is also normal but I am 32. I think it's lower for my age.

 

I'm curious, do you think a lower amount of androgen receptors would equate to a high level of free T?

I had checked my total T back in November and it was absolutely terrible for my age. 291 ng/dl (I'm 29). This explained a lot of the symptoms I was feeling back then. This was after a 4 month, intense usage of porn. My health declined rapidly then, it was insane. I couldn't workout anymore, had insane anxiety and extremely low energy. What baffled me the most, was that my doctor said my T level is healthy lol.

I haven't looked at porn for 100 days since then. 1 Orgasm, and have been retaining since my last orgasm. I'd like to say that my Total T has gone up since then, as I do feel better since then (still quite a ways to go though).

 

I'd say it's a possibility. I'm no endocrinologist, but it makes sense to me that if you have a lower androgen receptor density, then your overall levels of free T would probably be higher because it isn't being efficiently absorbed and utilized by the body. At that point, it's basically floating around in your bloodstream with nowhere to go and showing seemingly higher T levels.

I had a similar situation back in 2015 before I knew about NoFap. I was hopelessly addicted to PMO back then and experiencing all kinds of vague and mysterious health ailments that doctors couldn't seem to figure out. My testosterone levels were one of the first things that they tested, and the doctor told me that my levels were slightly higher than average for somebody in my age range. So of course they figured at that point that it wasn't a testosterone problem.

Once I discovered NoFap and quit PMO several years later, I noticed that my health problems were gradually disappearing one by one as the months went by. I've been doing NoFap for 20 months, and most of the problems that I used to suffer are completely gone now, and the few that remain have diminished considerably and are continuously improving. I mostly attribute this to my androgen receptor density returning to homeostasis. The reason I say mostly is because excessive fapping does also disrupt some other hormones like those produced by the adrenal glands. Back when I had all those blood tests done in 2015, one thing they did notice was that my cortisol levels were a little higher than they should be, and cortisol is one of the stress hormones produced by the adrenal glands. But for the most part, I think that excessive fapping tends to disrupt the sex hormones and certain brain chemicals (dopamine and serotonin) more than anything else.

 

@Mr. Kruger would you mind sharing some of the symptoms you were experiencing?

 

Physical:

• Frequent nausea.
• Various digestive problems (some quite severe).
• Constant hunger pangs and stomach growling (even after recently eating a full meal).
  
• Inexplicable pains all over my body.
• Hot flashes and frequent sweating.
• Extreme insomnia and sleep disturbances.
• Rapid heartbeat that would never seem to slow down (even when relaxed and sedentary).
• Shallow breathing and occasional hyperventilating.
• Always low on energy, like I never felt rested or fully charged no matter how much sleep I got.
• A constant wired-out and on-edge feeling. "Tired but wired," as people with adrenal problems describe it.
• Very frequent urination (actually worsened during my initial withdrawal period, but 100% gone now).
• Tinnitus (and a weird itchy feeling inside my ears).
• Weak immune system and frequent infections.
• Occasional vertigo and dizziness.
• Vision problems.

Mental:

• Frequent depression.
• Occasional anxiety and paranoia.
• Night terrors and nightmares.
• Occasional depersonalization and derealization.
• Emotional numbness.
• Anhedonia.
• Brain fog and generally feeling dipshitty all the time.
• Often feeling introverted and unsociable.
• Lack of creativity.

 

Thank you for the detailed response, brother! I definitely regret not seeing an endocrinologist back then, the red flag being my doctor thinking my T being healthy, I'm sure my cortisol levels were very high at the time too. It's interesting that even with high levels of T, you experienced low energy. In your case it really must of been that your T was not being utilized. The thing is from my what I have read, free testosterone is more important than total T. Do you remember what your T level number was back then (if you don't mind sharing, if not no worries)?

I experienced 98% of what you've also felt, it's a relief to read you've cured them. How long did it take for your energy to return and for the wire-tired/on-edge feeling to disappear? I also feel the "wired-out and on-edge feeling", less than before but still present. I'm not expecting to recover from these ailments until about 6 months- 7 months. I definitely think I have symptoms that are described as adrenal fatigue, although I don't think most endocrinologists /doctors recognize this.


Any particular habits/supplements you've picked up to assist you with your symptoms?

On my side, I'm meditating daily. Little walking, yoga and stretching, as weight lifting sets me back for now. I don't eat processed food. Stick to 2 hours of TV/comedy per week.

It's definitely a difficult battle, but I'm slowly but surely getting better. Trying to keep the faith!

 

I'm not sure. The doctor just told me that I was supposedly above average, but I didn't see my results on paper.

It was almost a year before that feeling disappeared and I could finally feel relaxed again. Keep in mind that it will be different for everybody. I was an addict for a very long time, so I probably dug myself into a deeper hole than most people on here did. Excessive fapping really does have an impact on adrenal function because your body and mind aren't supposed to be stimulated like that all the time, but there's no point consulting doctors about this because they will just deny that being addicted to fapping is detrimental to your health. Most doctors won't even acknowledge that adrenal deficiency is a possibility. The only thing you can do to rectify this is to stop looking at porn and fapping. The human body/mind is designed for sex with another human being, not the exorbitant, unnatural levels of artificial stimulation that come from having immediate access to infinite varieties of HD porn videos. Our species was never meant to be exposed to such intense stimulation for prolonged periods of time, and I think that we are just beginning to realize the negative impact that modern technology can have on our health.

I found that zinc and magnesium were helping me a little bit at the beginning of my recovery, but they don't seem to have any effect now. Maybe it was just a placebo effect. I don't think supplements are a requirement; you should be fine if you just eat quality food. I don't know where you live, but if you live in a climate with very long, cold winters like me (Canada), you might be deficient in vitamin D. A lot of people who live above the equator become deficient in vitamin D in the winter and don't even know it, and this can contribute to depression and fatigue.

I do find that it helps the recovery of your adrenal function if you refrain from using stimulants like caffeine, nicotine, and refined sugars. My recovery seemed to speed up quite a bit when I quit using those. Caffeine is very bad for the adrenal function, and I feel much better after quitting coffee and replacing it with green tea and rooibos tea.

Recovery from porn addiction can be a frustratingly slow process, but it will all be worth it once you gradually start to feel better and see glimpses of your old self. Just keep sticking with it, and don't let your mind trick you into relapsing when you're going through a rough patch. It will always try to convince you that having one quick PMO will give you a morale boost, but that will only make things worse.

 

The permanent availability of free porn and high speed internet is new. 20 years ago this was not an issue, even 10 years ago it wasn't that bad. If you take into consideration that science always takes its time to catch up and that ED and P are taboo subject it's not a surprise that PIED isn't talked about in the mainstream yet. Of course men should also take care of their T levels, but one doesn't exclude the other.

 

A significant amount of porn addicted men will develop PIED. I only noticed it at the age of 27. Some may notice it sooner, some might be immune. Science has yet to catch up on the numbers but the amount of shared experiences here in the forum says a lot.

 

Thank you again, I really appreciate you sharing your experience and wisdom with me. I'm also from Canada, I had my vitamin D levels tested out as well back in November. I was at 27.72 ng/ml. Depending on where you read, its within the healthy range in Canada parameters. It is considered inadequate within studies that were comparing mortality with vitamin D levels. I used to only recently take 1 vitamin D of 1000UI a day, I just recently started taking 2. I read a study that connected a significant increase in T levels with an increased amount of Vitamin D taken, (I think the range brought people around 40 ng/ml).

Definitely! Caffeine is a killer for adrenals and causes a lot of anxiety. I quit that a long time ago as well.

1 whole year huh? It's tough to read that but it make sense considering how long many of us have used it. It's really sad that the medical industry doesn't believe in the harm of masturbation/porn and how much damage it can do to people. This is why I went to a private clinic when I got my blood tests, I wanted to see for myself. If I didn't have them and my doctor told me it was "healthy", I would never have suspected it to be so low.

Thanks again brother, really appreciate the help!

 

High speed porn, and now, even worse VR porn is a death sentence for teens. This is the reason ED is a huge problem with teens.

 

Thank you for sharing. I think I could be dealing with something similar, as my addiction has gotten worse within the past 1.5 years and my health has gone off a cliff. I am experiencing many of these symptoms and I'm hopeful that I am on the right path to improving my mental and physical wellbeing.

 

I don't know what your situation is, but I first got addicted somewhere between 12 and 14 years old, and I was 31 when I started NoFap. Not many people on here have been addicted quite that long, so my recovery timeline isn't necessarily a good yardstick.

I think doctors and scientists will catch on eventually. At this point in time, it's kind of analogous to the way smoking was back in the day when people thought it was a harmless vice. A lot of people were incredulous when doctors began informing the public that it actually does a tremendous amount of damage. People are going to lash out at first because it's human nature to seek harmless pleasures. But they'll eventually come to realize that it was too good to be true, and future generations will be glad that they didn't have to learn that the hard way like all of us did.

But yeah, no problem. Glad I could help!

It won't be easy at first, and a lot of the initial withdrawal symptoms will be worse than the PMO side effects for a while. But if you can manage to persevere through it all, you'll be glad that you did when you finally start seeing progress. Good luck!

 

It most certainly is an addiction, and there's a substantial amount of neuroscience that can back this up. Quit spreading misinformation to people who are trying to recover. Go recruit members for your cult elsewhere.

 

Yeah around the same age, for me 14-15. I wasn't a daily fapper..more over the weekend. Only a handful of times in my life I did it 3-4 times in a day(in my teen years, my biggest issue in my teens was video game addiction). The rest was pretty much 1 time. Started with pictures, then progressively went to vids. First started nofap when I was 21, never took it seriously as I have now. But I would always have a streak, sometimes as little as 2 days all the way up to 60 days between 21-28 years. 4-5 months before I turned 29, I became a daily fapper, edged a lot and watched an insane amount of youtube videos per day too. Constantly wired on that dopamine chase. That's when everything pretty much came crashing down. I don't mind having to wait 1 year, to return to normal..to be honest I've suspect it through all the recovery stories i've been reading. 30 day recovery stories sound nice and all, but for a large majority of us..well it's just not realistic.

And I'm hopeful that what happened to smoking, will come forth for porn as well. At least we can teach others about its harms.

 

@Mr. Kruger one more question, if you don't mind. I used to be able to remember anything after just reading it once. These days, I can't even remember the main idea of a paragraph after I've read it. I'm wondering if you had any similar issues, and whether you say memory-related improvements in recovery.

 

I think even the 90-day reboot frequently mentioned around here doesn't apply to the people who have been addicted for years. That might apply to some 16-year-old guy who has only been PMOing for a year or two, but certainly not people like us.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I didn't mention the memory problems because I just conflate that with the brain fog. Like everything else, it will be rectified by abstinence.