At one point in life our parents say to us that life is not an easy place..it's tough...we have to struggle to survive. My question is if they knew it, why did they bring us in this world to suffer? Anybody who is born is doomed to go through happy and sad moments, but sad moments always outweighs the happy moments. Most of the happy moments we remember are not happiness, but just absence of suffering like think you had to wear tight fitting clothes throughout a hot day, you are sweating like hell, at night when you finally change to comfortable clothes and sit in AC or under a fan. Wouldn't that be a relief, it might be the best feeling that you experienced throughout the day. But that's not happiness, it's just absence of that suffering. Normally if I server you food, you might not like the taste but you will enjoy the taste of food, if I serve it to you after keeping you hungry for 3 days. You see even the happiness is nothing but absence of suffering. 'Right to live' is nothing but hoax, I can also give you 'Right to live in jail' but it can only be called a 'right' when you are allowed to leave whenever you want, if I force you to stay in prision, it's not right but punishment. Similarly suicide is a crime, humanity, religion or government doesn't allow humans to commit suicide then how in the hell is it 'right to live', it's incomplete without the 'right to die'. Giving birth to someone means you are putting him in prision of life. You have sentenced a soul to a 100 years of suffering, during this time he will feel pain, suffering and struggle with all kinds of addiction and sad moments. He will go through moments when he will feel like suicide is the only option but won't be able to take his life. Just because you didn't wanted to stay alone in old age, you bought a life into this hell, and you even expect them to be thankful to you.
Earlier the soul was without a sin, but anyone who is born in this world will not only suffer pain, but will also inflict pain to others, there's no way that he can stay without commiting sins. When you give birth to someone, you are not just creating one life, but entire future generation, your child will also give birth to someone else, for thousands of years, one after another your future generations will struggle in this world. You could have stopped all that. But governments still have the audacity to say that you are selfish if you didn't have children. This was still best case where child doesn't go through much trauma, but there are children who suffered child abuse, who were not able to get education, why in the hell did you give birth to someone, whom you can't afford. How convenient is it to get a free labour who will take care of you throughout your life, because you helped them when they were still a child. He would never had been trapped in the human body if it was not for you giving him birth, you are no different from the governments who act as good by solving problems which were created by them in the first place.
I think I found a reason why I can't blame my parents. Afterall suffering or happiness is a choice, humans have a choice in whatever they want to experience, people in worse situation can be happy and on the other hand people with best life can suffer like hell, they can make themselves depressed etc. World is not bad nor good, it's based on how you perceive the world, that one can experience joy or pain. People have power to multiply their happiness or pain by just focusing on it. People can literally experience best joy while simply sitting and imagining whatever hell they want. So, all the suffering or happiness that I went through was caused by me alone. Afterall one cannot control the entire external world, but what happens within oneself can be controlled, all thoughts, emotions and fear are your creation. It's upto you to decide how you want to create the world.
Dammmn, same shit happen to me when I see the brutality of this world towards me just cause of my family' image and bad treatment cause I've another siblings as well, I didn't want to come in this world , I was better be with God. And now I've to do dead ass jobs to survive only, dammmmmn I will not do the same mistake my parents did, I will bring soul in this world when I would be financially, spiritually, mentally and physically successful otherwise no reason to bring pour soul in this mean world to suffer and after decade the kid will say the same , why would u bring me in this world, I didn't want to be !!!
But without giving birth there would be a population decline. It's in full swing in Japan and I've heard people say it's coming to the West.
Not to sound morbid but I would argue that we humans are built for suffering. In fact I think we have a higher tolerance for suffering than we do for pleasure, which isn’t to say we should seek suffering for suffering sake, but rather that we can endure more suffering than we can pleasure. Heck, too much pleasure becomes suffering for us, a worse suffering as evidenced by our current predicament as pmo addicts. I believe it’s our ability to love which gives us this tolerance.
Birth decline isn’t coming to the West, it’s already here. There isn’t enough kids being born to help sustain the current system. This, among other reasons, is why Western countries aren’t enforcing border policies anymore. The entitled people of the West have aborted/contraceptive themselves out of future existence, so the government must import new slave classes to take their place, and it’s better that they be from impoverished countries because those people are already used to horrible living conditions. The West and its system is being reset to a new system. Slavery is coming back and it’s going to be a global thing! Enjoy!
People are conceived in sin by the way. Idk if you are Christian but Jesus was a holy baby because he was not conceived with sex. So you are a sinner before you are even born. But yeah, life here on earth is pretty miserable. Just got make the best of it even though I would welcome the rapture day immediately.
The answer to that is simple; our parents simply followed their instincts, as all creatures do. We're all wired by nature to reproduce; to do so gives us a sense of purpose, as if to lessen suffering through said purpose. This is not to say that this the assured outcome, but this makes the most sense to me. I used to read and listen to the ideas from the black pill community before coming here; for many of those men, to have no children or mate was to live a life with no purpose, leading to immense depression and even suicidal thoughts. By bringing new life into the world, some believe that they are lessening their suffering. Centuries ago, this would have made sense; children were free labour in pre-modern agriculture, and they were the retirement package when parents grew old. It's sad, really; to aleviate suffering, one must perpetuate it. I used to believe that technology would fill this gap, but as the internet (and the porn we all became addicted to) proves, this was a trojan horse. People became addicted to the instant pleasure and convenience that technology brings, at the expense of their own personal happiness and well-being. There's simply no easy answer to all of this. Do any of us really have rights? Sure, we have rights as citizens, but those - as you've demonstrated - can be repealled quite easily. Not to mention most governments come with emergency powers, which can suspend the constitution. Yet no other creature on earth (in the wild) construct such institutions; you are at the mercy of nature. Wild animals can hunt and kill those below on the food chain, and what was that all for? Sometimes, in more social creatures, males will drive off other males and slay the latter's cubs, in order to ensure his own genetic legacy. Well, given the nature of the modern world, many people are having fewer children, and most of the young people today won't have any children at all. I know that I said that people who have children do so on instinct, but it also takes two to tango. As life gets more comfortable, and technology makes life more comfortable, the need to reproduce will wane. All of society will say this, but I'm going to take a guess as to why this is. I suppose, from their point of view, we use up resources from the society that we live in, and thus owe that society extra labour via reproduction. I suppose if you're point of view is that people belong to the state and should sacrifice for its growth and stability, then it would make sense that one would hold that view. More cynically, this could just be a classic case of "I got mine, now you get yours." I remember hearing adults say that their rowdy grandchildren were divine retribution to their children for the latter's rowdiness during their childhood. Funny; in more affluent societies, people tend to have fewer children, whereas in more violatile, less affluent societies, you see more people having children at a higher rate. It's a curious thing to observe. We don't always have a choice regarding what suffering befalls us in life, but I do agree that the world is neither good nor bad. The world simply is what it is.
And what's the problem with that? Anyhow, we already have so many unemployed people, and with growth of AI, we will have more job shortage. Earlier, when machines replaced people, people moved from physical work to mental work, then computers came but they were only tools to help humans with their work, they were not capable of completely taking over most of the job, but now AI is taking over mental and even creative work. Physical work is gone, mental and creative work is also gone. What else can humans do? spiritual work? AI and robots can work 24/7 without salary. Earlier humans were resource, they could do work, whether it was physical or mental but now the cost of keeping a human employee is much more than AI, humans have become a liability, sooner or later with development of technology, AI will be much useful than humans, companies run behind profit, they will start removing employees, reducing payment of existing employees. You can literally have more than thousands of specialized AI work for you at the cost of a single employee. Either we must develop a universal basic income scheme or reduce the population to a size for whom work can be provided. Failure to do either option will result in a forced reduction of human population, not peacefully instead people will starve to death; or maybe people will choose to die in wars trying to capture each others resources. Yeah! I know. To me this entire thing feels like a big ponzy pyramid scheme, where hopefully only the last generation will have to suffer the most, others can simply shift their suffering to the next generation. Also, just because you are victim of a crime, it doesn't give you the right to do the same crime to other innocent people. Yeah! we can't control external situation or what suffering befalls us, but we can always choose how to respond to any situation. Moreover, whether we suffer during that situation or not. It might be long, but let me explain it why I think so, these are definitely not original ideas generated by me, but I read it here and there. We can never see our eyes using our own eyes, maybe we can see the reflection or image, but they are not your eyes. What I mean is that the object we see, and the object through which we are seeing are two different things. Similarly our mind can sense our body, so mind is different from body, and you can sense the changes in mind, the emotions and thoughts. So you can't be your mind. Ultimately we are not our body, mind, thoughts or emotions. We are something different from these things, someone who is simply experiencing all these senses. You can never sense your soul, because to sense it, it should be a object which is being seen by you. You can never see yourself. Focus on your breathing, did you start breathing just now, or were you always breathing? Even though you were always breathing, you only experienced it when you focused on it. Since, we are different from body and mind, we can choose to experience something happening in body or mind. I don't know whether there are still saints capable of doing this, but there was once a time when thousands of saints existed on this planet, who could completely separate themselves from their body and mind. Once you are separate from these two, there is no suffering. So, yeah experiencing suffering is a choice. People worship jesus, because even while he was in so much pain, he didn't focus on his suffering but on god, he chose to experience god instead of pain.
Before we were born, was there a "you" or a "me" who was thrown into this world against "their" wishes?!
I for one cannot wait for the coming of the omnissiah, may it find this worthless one worthy of service.
No, before I was created I had no wish, but it was obvious what I will choose after I got the free will. If you create robots they won't suffer, because they don't have free will. Well, let's take a unrealistic scene. Let's say a person decides to create a baby and force him into slavery, after the kid becomes a adult he will ask him, if you had a choice would you choose to never be born in this world. We all know the answer. Even when he was not born we already knew what decision he will make. If you ask a poor person, people in war conditions, people whose families are in debt, they never wanted that. In these conditions you don't need to see future to realise what your future child will say. Similarly, whoever is born is doomed to experience suffering and therefore them not existing is better than existing. Even the people with most abundant resources, at some point in their life felt like dieing. Yeah! Some can argue that we will miss the happy things of our life, but since you don't exist you won't feel the pain of not experiencing good things. In Hinduism and Buddhism nirvana is the highest attainable state. It means freedom from cycle of birth and death. Basically freedom from rebirth. People had realised ages ago that not existing is the true freedom.
As far as I'm aware, Buddhism/Hinduism teach that the cause of suffering is identification with the body, and thoughts/feelings. With limitation in other words. And that the ignorance of our true identity is the root cause of suffering. Put another way, craving and aversion (suffering) are rooted in ignorance. That's what I was hinting at in my previous post. What if we have somehow forgotten our true identity and brought down a world of suffering on ourselves? Perhaps the Garden of Eden story is telling us that? Of course, one could say "I" was not around in those days. But, what if we were, in a different form of course? (back to the teachings of Hinduism/Buddhism again!) I'm not some kind of "expert" in these matters. However, curiosity is a "superpower!"
Yeah, that's also part of Buddhism, or to be more precise it's the path on which one has to walk to reach Nirvana. Desires arise only after identification with body and mind. Soul always drifts towards what it desires. That's why they say to love God throughout the life, so that after death only desire of God is left. If even one desire is left, the soul will be forced to take another rebirth in the hopes of fulfilling it, but once you take birth, you are bombarded with even more desires. Even I tried to make sense of garden of Eden story, almost all religions agree that earlier humans were one with God, but we fell from that position due to some or the other reason, maybe being one with God is the state of no desire, but just one desire pushed us into this loop of rebirth. In garden of Eden, that one desire was that apple. Satan comes and whispers in the ear is like a desire whispering in your mind.
I hear you, but it sounds like typical addiction driven nihilism. It’s true, life sucks and then you die. But the thing that makes it tolerable is doses of happy hormones throughout the day. This is just my own hypothesis, but I think when your body is used to regular dopamine overdose from porn, or hard drugs for that matter, it stops normal hormone production and you literally go through a personality shift. You get philosophically nihilistic. Then, if you quit porn altogether you feel ultra miserable for a while. It takes some time for your body to understand the feel-good hormones aren’t coming anymore, so it has to start making its own, like normal. For me it takes a few weeks. Then, nothing really changes. Life still sucks, we still die, but somehow it doesn’t feel so devastating. I know it’s frustrating to hear. It’s like I’m saying it’s just hormones so your complaints are illegitimate, but that’s not true. They’re legitimate. Your logic is valid, I don’t disagree. It’s also maddening to hear, on this anti-porn forum, that all social and personal ills stem from porn. I’ve heard it all; broken relationships to bad skin and near everything in between, it’s all pornography’s fault. This one, though, is from personal experience. I’ve said the exact same things. I’ve felt them. I get up around 40 days and I stop feeling it so much. Hang in there. If you do, you’ll start to feel purpose in the chaos again.
I agree, even I have noticed it many time. Not only in times of withdrawal effect but also after relapse. I have experienced this cycle way too many times, you lose hope, get interested in something, starts becoming hopeful, everything starts appearing in your control, you think why was I ever stuck earlier, life is easy just focus on one thing and achieve it, and then you face challenges you can't control, suddenly life starts appearing hard and miserable again, you loose hope again. This happened so many times, like I literally know that I am going through it again, life appears to be cyclic. During happy time, I think I will never fall into that depressed state again, that was horrible, life is hard, there are struggles but a life without them will be boring. God has given us the power to choose, you don't need to be best in world, just do your best. If you top a exam but haven't given your best, that's bad. On the other hand if you fail a exam but you have tried your best I will be satisfied. At the end, only your actions are in your control. But when I am here on the other end I feel like I will never run behind that false illusion of happiness ever again, that is nothing but a trap, just a illusion caused by hormones, there is no happiness. I ran behind pleasures all my life but God didn't give it to me, now I stopped chasing it but now God likes this attitude and starts giving all pleasure of life, money, woman everyone just keeps coming, but what's the use of it now, you didn't give it when I asked for it, moreover if I start to indulge in these things, you will take them back. Now that you have no interest in his world, he has started attacking you with greed and all type of incentive, never allowing us to stay on a single path, instead making us go round and round in circles. As you said, it doesnt matter, why I came across these ideas, but they are still valid. Even bhagwatgeeta says about 4 ways people start seeking god, and one of them is when people loose interest in world due to realising the cruel nature of the world, mainly due to suffering. Those who give up world willingly after experiencing all of the joy are very few, most get attracted towards freedom because they don't want to suffer anymore. I don't want freedom from life, life might be beautiful but I definitely want freedom from this pain. Even the question that "why am I alive?" indicates that someone is in pain, did you ever complain about "why was I born?" when you were extremely happy, instead you were thankful to God for that. So, it's obvious that such questions will only arise in time of pain. Even though I knew at a deeper level that this state is temporary, this question is still worth asking. Is bringing babies to this world, really a right choice? Even the notion that this question can be asked means that there are reasons why bringing babies might not be good, but we are still doing it for our selfish reasons. Ah! It was for nothing, anyhow you expressed that you understand these ideas, but I wasn't able to keep myself from saying all this. Don't worry I won't give up
