Hi All Fapstronauts, I posted this is intros but just saw this forum and it made more sense. I'm new here. I'm male, 40, and been a nearly life long member of the "porn user" club. For the longest time porn really had no impact on my life, or so I thought. I eventually discovered that my preference was also my downfall. I had a penchant for POV and eventually VR. I eventually got caught by my SO and my married life began to unravel a bit. It's not completely dead but, let's just say it's on life support. I first quit porn back in February of this year and about a month later, for the first time in my life, I got off from my wife's oral. Scratch that, it was the first time i'd ever gotten off that way. It was like an awakening, but it didn't last because I thought, foolishly, I conquered my porn demons. I've legitimately been addicted to porn for a very long time (since 15 likely). Now that I'm fap free for some time (longer than badge suggests) I'm having a hard time not trying to go through loopholes to view it. I can't understand it. I find logical loopholes all the time to scratch that itch and I don't fully understand why, like: youtube videos of non-porn sfw stuff ai generated stuff anime hell, sometimes the cocomelon mom starts to look real fine... Recently the impact porn has had on my life is the lack of trust from my spouse, rightfully so, but also the fact that she feels the need to investigate/pry to find it. Even if her suspicious are correct it sucks to be on this side of it. I also recognize that it sucks to be on her side of it. I'm really trying and I slip up from time to time but have not looked at actual, real, what you would call "porn". However, that being said porn is subjective and sadly I do realize that even if it's the watered down SFW stuff, it's still scratching that itch. I do also fear that I might become some kind of weird puritan where I "O" just from seeing someone's ankles. I've decided to quit because I know it emphasis unrealistic expectations on myself and my spouse, it emphasizes insecurity, it sews distrust, and it creates distance in what could be a very good sexual life with my spouse. I'll be going Standard Mode, and I'll set that date as today. As I has some questionable searches in youtube that my spouse had seen, brought to my attention, and I immediately did the 100% right thing and deflected via embarassment... yeah no. I want to be accountable. I just have a hard time with her prying as well. It feels like two wrongs? Am I wrong on that? Regardless of my success in NOFAP or not?
I guess the secondary, maybe even primary question is... is it just time that will allow her back in? What else can I do to help her through MY addiction.
From the other side… yeah you’re wrong on that. You have deeply betrayed her trust. It’s a trauma to her-betrayal trauma that she will now have to work to heal from. Time alone will not fix it. Basically you have changed her brain with your lies, betrayal and deception. A good dvd is Helping her Heal by ( I think Doug Weiss? A good book for you is Out of the doghouse ) Another great book for you is Treating porn addiction by Dr. Kevin Skinner. I’m wondering why you think it’s wrong for your wife to want to know if she is safe from your lies? That’s what she’s doing,when she “ snoops”she’s seeking safety. You have hurt her more than you realize.,
While I can't disagree with much of what you've said, your demeanor is less than tactful. I don't think she's wrong to want to know, she doesn't ask first to give me an opportunity to tell the truth. It's dig until she's satisfied her curiosity. I suppose, it's naïve of me to dictate how she should let me earn my trust back. I'm still in the fledgling steps. I looked up reviews of that dvd and the book... will not be buying. I've had luck with the porn trap thus far and haven't so much as look at porn since. I'm more concerned about the psychology or other people's experiences with what I spoke about. Finding loopholes. This addiction is difficult, especially when it's been engrained as "normal" for decades. Normal to do, normal to hide, normal to be embarrassed about, but not "normal" to conquer.
It’s almost impossible to quit. 5% long term recovery rate. A good example that our csat showed us was the backwards bicycle, really impresses on how difficult it is to change the neuropathways. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but 35 years with a porn addict teaches you tact doesn’t normally work. Good luck.
Wasn't about feelings. I'm familiar with the backwards bike and I'm VERY stubborn. Compared to what I was doing before this past February to today I'm a completely different man. What I feel like is happening is lingering. Like it's this last shred of my old "identity" I need to shed. The hardest part of this whole process was not just taking responsibility for my own actions but taking responsibility for her re-actions. To me, there is no other option, if she leaves me or not this isn't part of who I want to be.
That’s awesome, and that’s what it takes to get into long term recovery., you have to want it for yourself and change your life. Unfortunately that lingering may last a while as you are just at the beginning of healing. Just understand she will have to work on herself to heal from this. It generally takes 18 months to 3 years of work for a spouse to heal from betrayal trauma. I’m at 4 years and just beginning to actually heal. I have a great csat, and my husband has become a completely different man. I haven’t felt the need to search for years, but it’s only been recently that I’ve totally learned to trust my gut and listen to it.
If I understand you correctly about the loopholes, it's generally what we refer to as psubs. I've relapsed enough bc of them that at this point I avoid them as if it was porn.
exactly, I'm getting to that point. Like I said, I'm afraid that I'm turning into this weird puritan though where if I see a lady's ankles or wrist I'll have to change my pants. What's the limit, what's life really like truly avoiding all the possible triggers? TV? nope. YouTube? Nope, even random thumbnails/ads it's everywhere. I don't really KNOW how to deal with it... and the second part is, if i DO deal with it what is life like afterwards where there is no arousal from imagery etc? It feels like I'm contemplating what life is after death.
Don’t spend much time on this question. It is a fear-based delusion and distraction to find a justification for going back to your old way of life.
After I posted it, I re-read it and fully agree. Life is what you make it and many people are very okay without this crutch. Thanks for calling it like you see it.
Yeah honestly try to reframe it in a more positive light. Honest to god my life has been exceptionally better on nofap. I think you just have to be honest with yourself about psubs. For me it's not such much the sight of a woman that will lead me to relapse, it's more the behavior I'm engaging in that lead to that. I.e. I was watching the movie Blonde last night and the nudity didn't really trigger me, but if I had watched it specifically looking for that it would have been a different story. I personally cut out all social media, twitter for me was just too much of a trigger, but this wasn't difficult for me as it wasn't really adding any value to my life. I use youtube, but I have it set where it doesn't give me any suggestions, which I think everyone should do anyway regardless of porn. I still watch TV and movies as that was never something in my past that lead me to fapping.
There’s a lot in this post that I can relate to: My wife found me chatting with OF girls. Devastated her. Ruined a lot of good we had. Trust was out the window, but she forgave me. 10 months later, I admitted to buying photos and videos from a SC model. Obviously, this also destroyed her. However, the fact that I was honest with her about it has helped us land a little softer. My suggestion to you: start being hyper honest about everything in your life, not just porn. When you are struggling, tell her. No matter what consequence you think honesty will impose, it’s better than the consequence of lying, and you must always assume your lies will get found out. The more honest and open you are about everything in your life, the more she will trust you. Right now, she needs the security of searching your devices. However, this isn’t good for you, her, or the relationship. Eventually you might need to say, “Hey, we need to talk about your ability to trust me again. Searching my devices doesn’t show trust. How can I help to bring us back to a place of trust?” Peeking at PSubs is my mother effing kryptonite. I have found every excuse in the book to do this. Here’s what I’ve learned. As I do these behaviors, I notice that my body chemistry changes and my heart starts to increase. Usually, that means that I know what I’m doing, and I know what results I’m looking for. Once this happens, I try to name the behavior. So for example, if I start scrolling news articles searching for thumbnails that might be exciting, I call this “sexy scrolling”. Now that it has a name, it’s easier for me to call out when I start to do it. Then I tell myself, “The next time you start sexy scrolling, if you don’t quit immediately, it’s a reset.” I also have another behavior that I won’t share that I call “Spotlighting”. The same thing applies. As soon as I take the first step to “Spotlighting”, it’s a reset. Setting these parameters, and taking them seriously (like mentioned before, treat these subs as porn) has really helped me curb those behaviors. I’m determined to be in the 5% success rate. It can be done. Man lived without porn for millennia. Your brain can be rewired. You won’t have to clean your shorts every time you see an ankle, because women won’t be just objects of sex for you anymore. Addendum: Whenever you feel like this battle is getting too hard because you’re literally seeing an anchor woman on tv and feeling like maybe you’re “peeking” at her the wrong way, remember that this is the addict DYING! The addict used to be oblivious to what he saw throughout the day, not paying much attention, because he knew something better was coming later. Now, he’s starving, so he’s looking for a fix every where. However, eventually he starves completely, and the anchor woman will just be an attractive person on tv. You will enjoy the view for what it is, and then move on with your life.
@TiredOfFailing and @feedthebear Gonna be honest here... my god I never expected this kind of response. It's perfect. Part of the pain about all this was thinking I'm some special snowflake, noone has this problem. Hell, since we were young it was "normal" and "normal" to hide it. Growing up that way has cemented this fear in my head of a world without. But even cement can be chiseled away. @TiredOfFailing - it's honestly everywhere for me, everything on tv. If it has curves my eyes are drawn, if it has cleavage, my eyes are drawn. I am finding myself becoming more aware of it, where before it was just 100% habit without realization (i.e. compulsive). I do feel like it's progress and I don't consider it a reset, yet. I'm taking it easy on myself through this transition phase. @feedthebear - for me it was VR stuff, then just standard P. I used to horde it like the internet was going to die. Many Terabytes just sitting there "break in case of emergency". Then after my first attempt at no P, I started looking at psubs because... eureka... i found a damn loophole in my promise to her. It still cuts as deep to her and I get it. It's my own compulsive behavior i'm trying to kill her. I feel the progress already but still have so faaar to go. I'm not even sure my spouse and I are on the mend at all or not, it's a rollercoaster and to be honest I'm having a real hard time with the extreme guilt of it all. I feel terrible all the time and i'm the one that caused it.
Definitely been there. I still have conversations with my wife about my guilt, even after her forgiveness has already taken hold. I think these conversations help us grow. Maybe right now, your wife needs time. Showing her your deliberate efforts to get better will also help with this. I usually say something like, “Do you have time and emotional space to hear about my recovery for a minute?” Then I share something I’m doing. “I decided to join a NoFap support call for the next year.” Or something I’m struggling with. “It’s really hard to watch these kinds of shows, do you think it would be alright if we watched them together? I would feel more comfortable.” Or a recent one, “I don’t trust these comic books, so could you look through them beforehand and let me know if there’s anything in there that I should avoid, or at least, be prepared for?” When you initiate opportunities to be honest about something that might normally be kept secret, you open the door for trust. You can’t make her walk in, but if you keep showing her the door, hopefully she takes the steps.
Bingo! Honesty. It’s so simple and it really is key. Be vulnerable with your spouse. That’s what creates intimacy. Connection. Connection is the opposite of addiction.
You're right...she needs whatever she needs to help rebuild trust, and if that includes access to your devices, then so be it. But, you shouldn't get to set a timeline on how long that takes. If after a year she still feels it's necessary, then she still needs it. If you make her feel like she's taking too long to regain trust, it will take even longer. However long it takes, or should take, is not up to you.
Update: Well Today was interesting. Things have been going okay for the most part, I realize that I'm not going to be able to set a timeline on recovery for my spouse's trust, it may never come to be honest. The part that seems to be increasingly difficult for me, personally is that. In the past I'd hid it, I lied about it, as we all did. Now since our last huge fight I haven't looked at a single thing that I would consider/she would consider a slippage. I'm really quite proud of that but I feel that I can't share that because who gloats about that. I don't want to gloat, but I am proud. The other side of it that is, now that I'm fully honest and open about it I still get snide comments. If I take a nap upstairs, "did you even sleep?" Yes, "really, did you?" It's accusatory and while I know, again, I can't set her timeline. It's difficult to deal with that. I get upset about it and we had a blow out fight. I asked her to just ask me directly instead of hiding it in "I'm just joking" comments that are rooted in her distrust of me. There's been several occurrences of this and it just makes me internalize more, feel like shit, and overall I get "too defensive" according to her. I feel like I have to defend myself because it does feel like an attack. Is this something I should just suck up and get used to if I want to weather the storm? Am I wrong for just wanting her to be direct. I guess I don't really know how to ideally and appropriately respond to her tones/sideways words.
