P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

I almost laughed out loud when I saw that (at @Experiment1996 and his naivety, not at @fortissimoBlues). I spent much of the second half of last year barely able to stand up or walk a few yards, due to exhaustion after my last relapse. I was literally crawling on hands and knees to get around my house, and I'm only doing marginally better right now, 201 days in to my recovery. I'm not saying @Experiment1996 isn't suffering, but you're not the "worst case". I've seen a lot of people say that on this thread over the years, and they know nothing.

 

I had what you describe for almost 4 years. So I'm not exaggerating. 201 days is a joke compared to 4 years.

Check out my latest 47 months post if you don't believe it: 47 months post

Show me a user here who was in such a state for 47 months.

I had 2 PAWS reductions in month 48 which changed my situation. So I don't relate anymore to my 47 months post. I am now at month 49.

Conclusion: I am the worst case.

 

Most in here have been in paws/flatline for longer than that, it's just that you and a couple of others are the only ones to have reached a 4+ year streak.

 

I did PMO from age 13-22 and during this time I also had PAWS. That's 10 years of PAWS.

I have been abstinent for the last 4 years (except 5 MO-relapses) and during these 4 years of abstinence I also had PAWS. That's 4 years of PAWS.

So it's a total of 14 years of PAWS for me.

But when I talk about PAWS, I usually mean PAWS during abstinence and not during PMO-time. So this means 4 years of PAWS.

And when we talk about the duration of PAWS, we should only talk about PAWS during abstinence.
Otherwise it can lead to misunderstandings. Recently someone wrote something like: "I've been in the flatline/PAWS for 7 years." But he didn't mention that he's been relapsing all the time.

Someone else could write: I have been in PAWS for 8 years. I had streaks of 3-4 months, then I did PMO for 6 months, then I went abstinent again for 1 year, then I did PMO for 3 months, then I went abstinent for 2 months, then I did PMO again for 3 months, etc. You can't take that seriously and that's not honest.

This post explains it best -> The only truth about PAWS.

 

I'm running through the thread, and I cannot get my head around why anyone would call themselves the "worst case"

I don't think the worst cases are the people that have the longest streak. The worst cases are the people that cannot abstain, the people that have been trying to reboot for 10+ years without a solid streak. The people that lie to their partners about quitting porn. Or the people that spend the majority of their wage slip on Onlyfans and escorts.

If you are seeing improvements from your reboot, are you really the worst case?

 

You didn't have PAWS from 13 to 22, that makes no sense as you weren't in withdrawal during that time. You may well have felt negative effects from pmo(as most of us did) but that isn't PAWS. Once you trigger PAWS, there's no going back and there's only one way out. Relapsing doesn't make it end, it makes it worse in most cases but just because a person relapses doesn't mean they haven't been in PAWS all of that time. If you relapse today and then go a month clean, are you going to say you've been in PAWS for one month? Of course not.

As I said, many here have been in PAWS a long time but not many have managed to go 4+ years clean with no relapse, that doesn't mean they haven't been suffering all of that time though. Perhaps even more so than what you've experienced, due to the effect of kindling.

 

Trying to reboot for 10 years? Are you sure they're trying? Are they really doing so badly?

That doesn't really sound like "trying" to me. You can't seriously say that someone is "trying" to stop using a drug or stop doing PMO for 10 years. That's ridiculous.
They don't seem to be doing that badly.

These people were never really at the bottom, so never really in the abyss of pain.

You don't seem to have really hit rock bottom. Otherwise you wouldn't write something like that.

I don't care if I'm hated here because of my honest opinion.

If you want to follow me, you do, if you don't, you don't.

Yes, I had PAWS-reductions, but I was still almost disabled until month 48. I already explained that -> 47 months post and 48 months post

I didn't say that the worst one is the one with the longest streak. I am the worst case because I had the most severe symptoms for a very very long time (47 months).

I was in quicksand for 47 months. Who can claim to have been in quicksand for 47 months? I don't think you've ever been there, and if you have, then for 1 week at most.
That's why you should shut the fuck up. xD ----> Here is the explanation -> DOPAMINE SCALE QUICKSAND

On Reddit I only know 2 people who have suffered as much or worse than me and that's "BuddyBrew" and "qpdpef". They are not active here in the forum.

But it could also be that "Red Moon" from this forum is about the same or worse. Otherwise, I don't know anyone here who has suffered more.

Cheers xD

 

PAWS means symptoms of dopamine deficiency.

Symptoms of dopamine deficiency (low dopamine levels) may include:

• You lack motivation, “the drive.”
• You’re tired.
• You can’t concentrate.
• You’re moody or anxious.
• You don’t feel pleasure from previously enjoyable experiences.
• You’re depressed; you feel hopeless.
• You have a low sex drive.
• You have trouble sleeping or have disturbed sleep.

Other symptoms of low dopamine levels include:

• Hand tremors or other tremors at rest, loss of balance or coordination, increased muscle/limb stiffness, muscle cramps (symptoms of Parkinson’s disease).
• Restless legs syndrome.
• Problems with short-term memory, managing daily tasks and solving simple thinking problems (symptoms of cognitive changes).
• Problems with anger, low self-esteem, anxiety, forgetfulness, impulsiveness and lack of organizational skill (symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder).
• Social withdrawal, reduced emotions, don’t feel pleasure (negative symptoms of schizophrenia).
• Gastrointestinal symptoms, including chronic constipation.

Source -> Symptoms of dopamine deficiency

I'm not talking about someone who has 1 relapse after 6 months of abstinence or someone who has had 3 relapses in 2 years.

I'm talking about people who say they've had PAWS for 100 years and they don't mention that they always do 3 months of PMO, then are abstinent for 1 month, then do 2 months of PMO, then are abstinent for 3 months, etc. That's a joke.

I'm talking about people who say they've had PAWS for 100 years and they don't mention that they have a girlfriend, for example, and have orgasms several times a week.

Unfortunately, there are people like that and you can't take them seriously. They themselves don't take the whole thing seriously and it can't be so bad for them as they continue to practise it.

 

the person you are mentioning is myself and i did not say 7 years i said 9 years. All i was saying is how long ive been in paws, i have been pretty upfront throughout this thread and my journal that there have been relapses. Over time these relapses have made paws even more unbearable. I replied to you saying there have been many relapses, so there has been no deceit.

I cannot believe you have been in paws since 13.

 

This forum is strange. People with long reboots are not many, such as us, yet no one pays attention to what is said or written in here.

 

You are comparing your own recovery with the recovery of others. The problem is that the people who you believe "are not trying" you likely don't know that much about. You said you PMO'd for 9 years, what about the people that have been addicted for 20 years? Or 30 years? Or 40 years? There was a guy that after 12 years of trying to reboot, sadly decided to end his life - was he not trying? There is another guy that was in this very forum that had been addicted to porn for 40 years. Can you imagine being addicted to porn for 40 years? Can you imagine how hard it would be to quit?

Then factor in that some of these guys have a whole family to look after WHILE recovering form PAWS. They have jobs, careers, a wife, children, some even have grandchildren. Then you get guys who do not have to work, do not have to pay rent, do not have to pay a mortgage, have no kids and no financial dependents who are completely supported by their family, pointing the finger at those who haven't successfully quit or continuously relapse. Can you see where this is going? You are so fixated on your own recovery and suffering that you completely alienate the suffering of others.

Go and take a peak in the 60+ threads on this forum. Those are the real worst cases. It is riddled with men that dedicated their entire lives to sex, porn and masturbation, who have spent years trying to recover only to fail, but according to you "they are not trying."

I am not saying you haven't suffered, we all have. But calling others out because their streak does not match yours, shows you are grossly out of touch with what it means to recover.

 

@Experiment1996 said he's the worst case as the reason to why he is recovering slower than some of us here. Maybe he doesn't know others are suffering as much or even more. That's his ignorance. Maybe he acknowledges this now. Topic changed. Nice to know @mentorr keeps his eye on the forum quietly.

 

Yeah, thank you for this post. There's so much noise in this thread. And some guys obviously need recovery in more layers of their personality.

 

I used to think I was the worst case till I saw a couple posts from 20+ years of addiction. And those people can't even complete 3 months of nofap yet.
Btw I've been bed ridden since 2018. By 2022 it was a little bit better. However any relapse brought me back to square one.

 

I urge you to read "rebooting as the best remedy" by soaring eagle experience, a Chinese writer. There is hope to get better.

.

 

1. Show me a post that is worse than my 47 months post. -> 47 months post

You have a habit of claiming many things, but you never show proof or evidence for your arguments. Like with TRE, for example. What will come next?

Here is a PAWS success story from medication that lasted 52 months ->

52 months PAWS from medication

And here is a brutal example of anhedonia for 2 years that you cannot imagine in your life because you have never experienced anything like it. ->

2 years PAWS (ANHEDONIA) from medication.

I show you these examples so that you understand what I mean when I talk about "worst case scenario".

These are not even the worst cases I have read. I know even worse ones... I quickly picked these out of my list.

2. There are people who say they've been doing PMO for 20 or 30 years, but it wasn't even an addiction, it was just a habit.

Some say they've been doing PMO for 30 years, but they haven't escalated like me or others. They watched "normal" porn, without escalation and without edging, etc.

These people are not as damaged as someone who has watched gay, trans, transwoman, crossdresser and other categories, fetishes and hardcore stuff.

You can't compare these people to me or to people like me.

3. Everyone can talk big, but when it comes to bringing the facts to the table, everyone is suddenly quiet.

I realize that many people don't like what I write here, but I don't care. The few people who follow me understand it and others are blinded.

 

Ok. Then why don't you prove it? Show me a post that is worse than my 47 month post. -> 47 months post

If you claim something, you should also be able to prove it.

 

1. 65 Year Old battling P for 40 Years
2. PMO since 1995, 24 year marriage destroyed
3. 68 and married: PMO has been an issue my whole life
4. Daily PMO addict for my entire life
5. 40 year plus habit/problem
6. Turning 60 next month
7. 69 year old, married 40 years
8. Single for 30 years, Porn has ruined my life
9. Married and over 50
10. 55 and Masturbating with a flaccid penis