Will it ever be ok

And AGE lol

 

Can a recovering alcoholic have a glass of red wine once in a while? It can be beneficial to health - for a non-addict. Not for an alcoholic.

Similarly, is the spouse of a recovering alcoholic never supposed to have a glass of red wine or white wine or a beer? That's up to the SO and/or couple. I'm sure the SO would never drink in front of the addict, out of respect.

To me, it is the same for SOs of PAs/SAs. They aren't addicts. They don't have to reset their brain chemistry. If they aren't doing it to P, not doing it to replace their addict partner, out of anger/revenge, then there is no reason for the SO to put themselves on a no M restriction.

Truly examine your reasons and decide for yourself. That's my opinion and my PA feels the same. Personally, I very rarely have the desire for M so it hasn't been an issue for me, but I haven't felt guilty when I have done it.

 

The question of whether to M or not as a PA is entirely up to your husband. If your husband does not want to M, I would respect his choice.

I'm confused as to why you think that your husband not Ming would be a threat to your own free will. You still have 100% choice to M or not, regardless of what he does. You might feel guilty about enjoying something that is off limits to him, but it's still your choice.

There's no Official Rulebook for the SO of PAs. There's no rule that says you must divorce him if he masturbates. There's also no rule that says you must never M again.

Do whatever you want to do.

 

That's my analogy and I'm sticking to it. It explains my opinion perfectly. My opinion has been formed by all my life experiences and unfortunately, I know too much about this topic and I have seen too much, but anyway that's how all opinions form. I have no problem with the way it sounds when you plug in those other words to my analogy, that is actually what I think is true. The analogy was really intended to convey my opinion, not convince others to change theirs, so that's why I put it like that, it works for me. I'm not trying to argue either way, I won't change my mind and don't care if anyone else does either. I thought the point was just to express our individual thoughts and it was interesting to me some of the recovering PA's responses. If you want to get into a debate, I think I have nothing to offer because I haven't ever been addicted to anything so I would say, focus on the responses of the PA's who have successfully recovered. Did you get any saying it will probably be ok one day? Sorry I haven't read them all yet, the first three I read said for themselves, they don't think it will ever be something they will be comfortable with.

 

Maybe there isn't always an analogy that can be effectively applied. PA is like David Pumpkins, it's own thang.

 

Ok so after re-reading your original question, I have a question. Your concern seems to be, is it fair if you get to M and he doesn't, so can't he just M too, so it's fair. My question is why are you both wanting to M alone instead of be intimate with each other? Seems like that solves the issue and is what most PA's have said, they do better with intimacy than Ming alone, because that's what created the disconnect.

 

They possibly exist longer than we do if no one eats them, but they were never alive, haha. Twinkies were invented in 1930, did they leave one out and see if its still intact? That would make it not near as old as the oldest human we know of in modern history. When I hear stuff like this, I always think well how do they really know because they've only been around for 88 years to begin with. I'm not talking sealed in the package either cuz if we're going by that then what about those mummies in the peat bogs that were very well preserved for thousands of years.

 

As a PA the only time I could imagine M being an option again was if it was completely transparent - if I had discussed it with my SO in advance, if she was fine with it maybe Even be on the phone to her whilst it happened lol. No secrets, no doing it then seeking forgiveness afterwards

Then and only then. Problem is, as others have alluded to, can you trust yourself (as a PA) that that is where it would end? In theory if strict boundaries are applied then why not. In practice we are talking about addicts - as my uncle the alcoholic says it’s not drink that’s his problem, it’s that if he goes to the pub he doesn’t know if he’ll come home after two pints or wake up in a police cell...

 

Haha, yep they're awful.

 

I talked to my husband about this and he said he would never ever go back to M for the following reasons
1 M is too linked to shame .... as in if he does it it will feel bad and dirty and disgusting
2 its quick and unsatisfactory
3 he rather be with me every time because its intimate connecting and I can please him very well much better than he ever did himself.

I M on occasion as in my drive is higher and even if I M I am still game if he is in the mood. I M sometimes because I really dont want to pressure him or bug him for sex. Unless he brings sex up we dont have it... and he brings it up once a week maybe in a healthy way (healthy being we are already connected not we are disconnected and sex will fix that).

Right now we aren't having sex because we decided to go back to zero in our romantic relationship as in he has to date me and court me again and show me this new guy is for real and see if we can regain the romantic relationship back and sex isn't happening until I trust and feel safe with him. If he chooses not to date me and court me then that is telling.

But M for an SO it depends on the relationship my husband doesnt mind at all because it's not like I do it to avoid him. He knows that if I M I'm thinking about him and it's not a problem for me. I do admit that I refrain from Ming and can feel slight guilt but I remember that PMO is his issue and I dont have an issue with it.

You and him can talk about where M stands in your relationship.

My personal belief is that for a PMO addict.... M either brings too much shame and leads them to PMO or as @kropo82 mentioned he thought M would help keep him from it but it drove him to P...

M for addicts in my opinion is be VERY cautious.... and be honest about if its harming you

M for SOs it depends on the boundaries and agreements in each individual relationship

 

For too many PA's, M is linked to P in the brain. I M'd excessively for years before ever starting P. For me, M is problematic, and now due to P history, it just causes temptation to PMO from chaser effect, and escalation seeking a bigger high. I even had guilt and shame over simple MO when I was younger. I don't know if that was simply due to my religious upbringing causing unhealthy attitudes around sex, but even now MO makes me feel like less of a man. It drains drive, motivation, and ambition. It numbs dopamine receptors. It causes people to be more self-centered, making them less focused on a partner they might have.

As a former alcoholic, I have to second the booze analogy. Most people can drink in moderation, but "just one beer" is too dangerous for people with a history of problem drinking. If you know you are susceptible to something, why would you play with fire?

Just how people who can drink in moderation don't need to feel bad for doing so, you don't need to feel bad about M if you don't have a problem with it, just don't indulge in front of someone who has a problem

 

The substance is produced inside your brain, that's where the substance is. It's a brain disease which can lead to people killing themselves because their brain is messed up, or on the flip side SO may kill theirself because they can't handle it, it's a real thing. I sure have thought of it and my husband threatened to although he may not have actually done it, don't know for sure but I didn't want to test it. You understand my analogy perfectly because you put it into your own words and that's what I meant, you just didn't agree with my point of view but that's ok, point is you understood it to mean exactly what I meant, that's what I believe. You were the one who mentioned the both of you Ming alone in your original post, so that's what I was going off of.

 

I don't believe it will ever be okay. For the many reasons Ghostwriter already stated. My belief has changed from years ago when i would defend jerking off and get mad at people who had a different opinion than me.

Our society conflates what "feels good" with what is truly healthy when it comes to masturbation. Sure it feels good because youre pumping that dopamine, but in the long term picture youre just a shell of a man whose depleted and literally fapping their life away.

 

Ok dagummit this is frustrating! I've never seen someone argue for her husband's right to M so hard before, especially considering he isn't even asking to do it and you haven't even talked to him about it yet!

So to go back to the stupid Twinkie analogy. I don't feel guilty if I eat one Twinkie, even though I know it's not the best for me. But if I really like the Twinkies and begin to eat more, then I automatically have a health issue brewing. Also if I never eat a friggin Twinkie in my whole entire life, I will not be harmed one bit. Plug in PA and M or non/PA whatever you have to do to understand and you will understand my opinion. I find it interesting also that whenever someone on here isn't getting the responses they want publicly, those affirmative responses suddenly come from "private messages".

 

I have also come to some newfound realization; fapping doesn't satiate me or even make me happy after. It just drives me to want more, maybe do it in a different way.

Its like drinking salty seawater for someone whose dying of thirst. Thank God my view on this has changed.

 

How about losing your livelihood because you can't stop looking at porn at work? How about ending up in prison because you escalated to looking at child porn? How about losing your wife and kids due to your addiction? Any of those outcomes could easily drive an addict to suicide.

It seems like you have some need to believe that your husband's PA isn't a real problem. Usually it's the addicts that have this mindset, not the SOs. It sounds like your husband recognizes that PA is a serious issue for him and he's working hard on recovery.

What are you afraid will change for you when he gets better?

 

Is a little feces in your spaghetti okay? If so, bon appettit!