Will it ever be ok

Ok . This is a great question. I feel differently on different days . Think of the phrase “ what came first the chicken or the egg “ as what PRIBLEM came first the M or the P “
For him M became an issue early on . Then excessive M , then P then excessive M to P . Given more than 30 years ( since he was 15) of an excessive amount of solo sex , I personally can not have it in my marriage. It is a firm boundary. Given everything we have been through because of this god awful addiction for 22 years I have a right at this point to feel safe finally in my marriage. He also has a right to not be with me if he disagreed with any of boundaries, he signed them while clear headed 18 months after DDAY . I don’t see him being able to just M to no psubs anytime soon . I didn’t M for a long time because I felt like a hypocrite. I started to somewhat frequently right after DDAY . I saw a problem and I stopped. Then a few months ago I was numbing out and started back up . Yes I told him recently. That’s the thing , I can 100% understand the WHYS . But I never understood why he didn’t come to me to tell me he was struggling with PMO . I didn’t have a problem with P or M for the first 5-8 years together , I did too . I have a higher drive than him . I know I myself was a trigger for him . I get it , understand it can be healthy to M , but I’ve done enough worrying to last me a lifetime . I’m alll set

 

Yup, totally agree with this. I think for some PA’s the M could spiral them back in but it’s more of personal distinction and “level” of PA/SA. Hubby gave up porn first and he just decided that he didn’t need M so it naturally fallowed for him. Sexual intimacy is so much better for us both without it, as in me not doing it either.

 

With PA being considered a disease of disconnection, I can’t see how M could ever be healthy for a recovering PA. M is a selfish and disconnected action. For me it was self soothing behavior. Sure I used P as material, in fact I used more than Any sort of traditional P. This is even why Psubs are a slippery slope. It is all fuel for the same problem.
I know from SA that they define sexual sobriety as no M and and only sex with a spouse. I would certainly argue that it would be acceptable in a committed relationship, although my commitment is to my spouse. I don’t see that changing in this lifetime. They also refer to what we call PA as a Lust Addiction. Which incorporates all sorts of abhorrent behavior, which I have certainly been guilty of.
With a year of sobriety behind me, and ongoing recovery, I certainly see the problem with practicing M. I also see the problem with ogling. These are all manifestations of the same problem.
If your SO was a recovering alcoholic, would you refrain from drinking? Would you want him or trust him drinking beer, but think he should only stay away from the hard stuff?
I wouldn’t blame or look down on my wife if she continued to M. She wasn’t the one with a problem with it. It Wouldn’t change my resolve or make me want go there on my own.
For me I will take the hard line of NO. The point of the reboot is to break the routine.
What it doesn’t do is break the pathway. That path has been used so many times it is a freeway. It will always be there, built over many years of abuse. It has so many different ways to get on to it. I will happily take the back roads from here on out. I will avoid the surface streets, the parallel roads to that freeway, because I no longer want to go that direction with my life. I’ve seen what it does to me and those around me, and I don’t need to go there again. Especially now that I know better, and have found so many other ways to go, I can happily keep exploring the Novelty of those, and not miss a thing about PMO.

 

I agree to much you say. I see M as a natural way to explore your sexuality. And I see it as part of sexual integrity to be making my own decition wether to M or not. Therefore I have no problem with my SO sometimes go there. I know it is with moderation. Now for my part, I ruined that long ago. I will never more use M since I know it will eventually lead back to P (been there, done that). Great of you to raise the question!

 

I agree with what the two "no" votes have said about it not being ok. This is my opinion based on what I've observed in my life. I don't have the brain science to back it up but the interesting thing I've noticed is that usually the studies concur with what I already figured out by myself, just meaning I feel like I mostly have a good understanding of these things. If you never had a problem with or around sex and M then you might believe it is a normal, natural thing simply because it doesn't cause you a problem. It's like a very fit person eats a Twinkie, never been overweight a day in their life, does that make the Twinkie a healthy thing for the person to eat? Is it natural now? No, nobody could ever argue that it's good, natural, or healthy for anyone to eat a twinkie, ever. But we do these things and if we're not overweight or addicted, we say it's just a normal, healthy, natural thing for someone to do. I will eat junk food to a limited degree but I don't try to pretend it's good for me.

 

So, as a SO, I never had a problem with M. My problem is with P.
For my husband, M leads to P, or at the very least, fantasizing, which will eventually lead to P, he's said. He says now, and has since about 90 days free of PM, that he no longer wants to M, at all. He wants all of his sexual experiences to be with me, and that's it. He also says he feels so much better not Ming and he feels no draw to do it.
I don't know what my counter says below, but that's how many days he's gone without P or M now just to give you an idea of timing and his mindset. He says he doesn't care if I M. For me, M had never lead to P or fantasy. He finds that insanely hard to believe but it is true. I would just focus on the feeling and it wasn't often, like once every few months. I don't know if that is just me or if that is a difference between PA/not, men/women, just person to person or what. So, you can see how my mindset was different towards M. Because of how I wasn't thinking of or lusting after others when I would M, I assumed (very wrongly) that he wasn't either when he would. I knew he Med daily or close to it, but I didn't realize P was involved. I guess that is dumb, but I just didn't. That's why my problem is with P and not M, but for him, they always go together.

 

This was me too in this area.

 

I agree. Masturbation is sex with someone you love, that's a good thing. I imagine that many porn addicts can, eventually, return to masturbation (without porn). But ...

This, I fear, is me. I'd been trying to stop pornography for six years before I found these forums. Trying and failing. I managed some long streaks but always ended up diving back into porn use. There are many things that are different this time (the support of everyone here, insights through journaling here, ...) but one big one is giving up masturbation. I thought that masturbation was a tool to help me resist porn (because I could use it to dissipate sexual tension) but it wasn't, it was drawing me into porn use.

I believe that we should experiment, and perhaps one day I'll add masturbation back into my life. But not for the foreseeable future, it feels too much like a cornerstone of my porn-sobriety.

I think he might be able to. But not for a while. I wouldn't see it as a goal either. Just wait, watch the years pass, and see.

You might want to talk to him about this. I damaged my wife's self-esteem and our marriage with my porn use, she didn't. I have absolutely no idea if she masturbates or not, but if she does then I do not have a problem with it at all.

 

Well, that was an impressive way to say everyone is allowed their own opinion without leaving the slightest room for anyone to have an other point of view.

 

I think that’s maybe the difference that I was talking about . I don’t know when an addict actually is healthy enough to simply M once in awhile ? Then how often is healthy for the addict ? How often is once in a while ? Edging and excessive M has been proven to cause PIED even without the P That’s why this question is soooo hard !!

 

this has been my experience too. It wasn't until 31 years of Masturbation ended that I finally got a hold of myself.

I just want to point out the sweet irony of a username @cakeinacrisis picking apart an analogy about Twinkies.

I love you all, and this forum so much.

 

How long have you known you’ve been an SO of a PA ? I’m sure I’ve read it but I forget !

 

The reason I asked is this might be exactly why you had this question and your thoughts . A lot of us SO have been through this for decades with multiple HUGE TRAUMATIC DDAYS . That’s why I have the stance I do . It’s quite possible you may never think this way and I hope no more hurt comes upon you. Our 1st DDAY was 8 years in . I’m now 14 years from that with small ones in btwn and the BIGGEST in 16’ . That’s why I’m pretty firm with no M in my marriage. He’s has enough ! Remember no pressure on the 30th day . Have fun !