Why Doesn't He Get How Hurt I Am ?

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by GG2002, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am really struggling tonight SOs. Backstory caught my fiancé using porn after saying he was not for a year. He never had an O with me until after he stopped the PMO and still only from my hand. I suffered trying to help him thinking he was working towards the goal.

    So has he been PMO free? Yea I think so but he's mad as heck at me even though he won't admit it. I sent him the apology letter that @AverageBear posted. He thinks I should move on. When I get upset he says "everything I do is wrong, you will never get over this you will hold it against me forever." He negative talks "Well I'm just a liar I'm a horrible person" but he wants me to contradict him. I say you are not a horrible person but you did lie and what you did was horrible.

    We have the same fights over and over and I honestly don't understand how he even thinks he has the right to fight with me! One big thing is texting. He travels a lot for work and if he does nor respond in a timely manner say over 30 minutes or an hour I get anxious. Not during working hours I don't expect it then but after hours or on weekends. I was never like that before but I explained it makes me anxious now
    When I don't hear from him. But he keeps doing it. It will be hours and I send multiple texts and there's always some reason. Now sometimes his reason is valid and I explained to him that's okay but I need you to validate my feelings. I want him to say I'm sorry I understand why you are anxious and upset and when he does I calm down except since the PMO reveal he never does that he fights with me. He's extremely defensive and says he does not understand why I'm mad he did nothing wrong he was too busy to text and he's not apologizing. Obviously that makes things 100 times worse! He said if I don't feel I did wrong I'm not apologizing. So we fight and fight and I'm just exhausted. I can't reach him guys why can't I get him to understand I need support and understanding? I have supported him so many times! Does he honestly think he's going to win or make things better? Is this how he thinks trust is rebuilt? I tell him exactly what I need and he refuses to give it to me. And I don't think he's doing anything sinister I think he just does not understand why I need reassurance and so he won't do it and he does not think this should be taking so long for me (2 months) but it is and the more he acts like this the longer it takes! Why can't he hear me what do I need to say?
     
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  2. Once2Many

    Once2Many Fapstronaut

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    I don't know you or your husband, but his behaviour does not sound like someone who is staying clean. If he isn't actually watching, he may be fantasizing, which keeps their addicted brain in the same place as visuals do. He's trying to divert the issue by creating arguments and blaming you for not getting over it...But he hasn't done any work to show you that you can safely move on.
    An addict who is dedicated and trying to stay clean, is focusing on repairing those they hurt, repairing their life, rekindling affections and trust. This behaviour sounds like an addict trying to protect their poison...And that means their poison is of higher importance than anyone elses feelings. I hope he finds his way back. And I hope you find your strength, and also make sure to love yourself.
    Hugs
     
  3. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    I've discussed in the past the idea of the porn addict version of a 'dry drunk'. Alcoholics use a phrase 'dry drunk' to describe someone who is in recovery for all the wrong reasons. They are abstaining only because others have pressured them to do so. They can be angry for being forced to give up something they love. They can feel victimized and think they are being treated like a child instead of an adult. They can still blame others for their problems and want to be left alone to be with their addiction. They can resent their 'loved ones' for 'forcing' them to change against their will. They reluctantly go through their treatment regiment but hate every moment of it.

    No progress can be made because they are not accepting responsibility for their behavior. Addicts in treatment can be technically clean but make no progress because they refuse to address the underlying problems that led them to addiction. The person can become even more bitter and angry and is in danger of having a relapse just to make those feelings to away.

    There is also the possibility that he is hiding the fact that he has returned to his old life. He could be putting up walls between the two of you. Addicts like to build a warm nest and snuggle with their addiction while keeping the outside world at a distance.

    Another possibility is that he has shifted to another addiction. He may be telling the truth that he is not looking at porn and PMOing but has he shifted to something else? Drinking? Gambling? Smoking?

    One other possibility is that now that the addiction is gone has the underlying problem been exposed? Many people use PMO to medicate mood disorders, conduct disorders, cognitive disorders, emotional disorders, aspergers/autism, PTSD, childhood trauma, depression, or anxiety. Could his current behavior be related to dealing with once of these without any form of treatment or medication?

    Either way, progress is not happening. Something is wrong and it must be extremely frustrating for you to have to deal with it. If he was truly clean and getting better then you should be enjoying the benefits. You must be extremely disappointed that no improvements have been made in your relationship. I hope you eventually find the answers you are so desperate to find.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  4. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks the comparison to dry drunk I think is a large part of it. He does not think he has a problem with porn but he did admit it was likely causing his ED and was bad for our relationship. I do think he's stopped but he thinks because he's done that he should be able to do whatever the heck else he wants. I'm doing what you asked so it's okay if I do other things that upset you. This gets to the heart of he's doing this because I'm forcing him to and he's mad. So thanks for that. I also think he has underlying anxiety that is surfacing. I feel like he treats our relationship like a battlefield. He just will never give in on anything now because he thinks I've given up porn so don't ask me for anything else. You are correct that until he comes to that realization that he is an addict that his PMO is damaging to us and he needs to do this for him nothing will change. He feels like he's making a huge sacrifice so how can I ask for more? And he just continues to fight with me like he has any chance of winning. Thank you for helping me to work this out in my head.
     
  5. This just sounds so awful - I'm really sorry you're being put through it. As stated above, he's giving up for the wrong reasons, so it's not having the effect it should. And you've ended up in the position he should be in - namely researching his addiction and seeking support here. I wish I could offer constructive advice to you, but it's he who needs the advice.

    I would love to explain to him the personal benefits of giving up PMO, for DE and enjoying a sexual and emotional relationship. And the pain I was unwittingly inflicting on her by having this 'other me', that caused me to be irritable and distant. But you do have to want to achieve these benefits. And no amount of persuasion of them can be useful unless they are a desired goal in the first place. Have you ever asked him if he likes looking at porn? If he likes sitting on the toilet (or wherever) masturbating in secret? Would he be comfortable with his friends/family knowing his habits? If he wouldn't prefer to be the kind of person who has a healthy sexual relationship with you and no porn (with maybe some infrequent masturbation on the side, I dunno, up to him/you)? Because if he's not ashamed by it, then I don't know where to start. And it's wholly unfair to put you in the position of 'bad guy' when you're a victim of this and are trying to incredibly hard to help him. Sorry, wish I could have posted the answer here...

    To note, I didn't post the apology letter, though I did think it was pretty spot on.
     
  6. I would note, in case this is his issue, that porn addiction doesn't make him a bad person. It's an all too easy problem to develop, and one that we haven't been educated to avoid. In fact, I think quitting porn is really difficult, and an achievement to be admired. So you should be clear (I don't doubt you have) that you would really respect his properly quitting and committing to you, that trust will return if he earns it, and that you will really respect him for making that effort and commitment. But that the effort and commitment has to be demonstrated, and genuine.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2017
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  7. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    I agree with Once2Many. I don't know both of you, but to me it sounds like he is not really trying to give it up/not aware it is a problem. The addiction is probably the reason he is getting angry and frustrated, I have noticed that addicts are very emotionally volatile, but don't know why, they misattribute it to the wrong things.

    This sounds very manipulative.
    If he does not think it is a problem, then why would he tell you if he relapses? I fear a lack of communication. But I do not find anything wrong with the text messages, if he is busy and can't respond, then he is busy. I don't know his occupation and even if he is not busy maybe he needs some offline time as well. But if he doesn't think PMO is a problem, then he is going to continue to engage in it, and get defensive when called on it.
     
  8. fuzzywaz

    fuzzywaz Fapstronaut

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    That's your answer right there^ He's not invested, he is only doing it because he "has to" and is therefore acting like a petulant child, who has had their candy taken away. It will not get better and chances are not good for a sustainable recovery, if he doesn't even actually want to be free of the addiction. He sounds bloody awful :( You deserve so much more in a relationship than this
     
  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I agree with you that behavior is manipulative I used those exact words to him. As far as the texting just to be clear I never expect him to text me while he's working nor would I be upset if he did not. It's when he's not working that this comes up. Not to sound offensive but I don't care if he needs some downtime that's just too bad. He is asking a lot from me to begin with to deal with this situation and I'm telling him what I need to rebuild trust but he won't do it. Thanks for your help and comments.
     
  10. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks I agree. He is also very much a person who says if he does not think what he's doing should hurt me he won't stop doing it. Even when he knows it hurts me. I am a very easy going type of gal. Before I found about the porn and lies I rarely got mad.
     
  11. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    @Broken3 - dry drunk definition as it applies to PAs
     
  12. Drewdee446

    Drewdee446 Guest

    I feel he has a lack of respect for you and your feelings.
     
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  13. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    It's hard to truly get the idea what's going on in a relationship from a few posts... One piece of advice I can give you is that you can never be sure that he's really quit. I've been with my wife for 20 years and a PA (of varying degrees) most of that time. This is just my opinion based on my own life - but if he had ED and can't O normally like you said - then he was a full blown addict looking at hardcore porn pretty frequently. Even looking at porn a couple times a week (I also looked at pretty tame stuff) I could still have an active sex life with my wife, it was only when I binged (hours at a time or a few days straight) that I had that problem.

    Also - I've lied to my wife about my porn use. Our relationship is... complicated... we're both very broken people in a lot of ways... and in general my wife didn't ask me about my porn use, even after she found out relatively early on. I always told her it was just every once in a while, even when it wasn't. A few years ago I quit for 6 months and as far as she knows - that was it ... but it wasn't, and I've lied to her since then. Addicts lie. I can get away with it because shes doesn't have ED as evidence.

    In general, all things taken into account, we've done a very good job with our marriage. We both continue to have problems and I suppose we will our entire life, but we're extremely loving and close with one another. I don't know how long you've been together but it took us 7-8 years to really connect. I think society's modern ideas and practices concerning sex cause most of us to start relationships in a really messed up state. I wish I could give any of you PA spouses better news, but in my case it has had to be entirely on my own initiative to really quit. I think I'm doing it for real this time... but I also thought that last time I quit.

    I'm certainly not putting anything on you - I don't know you - just a bit of advice from my own marriage and observations of others. We can't ever expect other people to validate us. It may sound harsh - but the only way, in my opinion, a relationship can work is if you come at it from a place of already being validated and comfortable with yourself.

    It sounds weird in our culture because people expect to find a lover who completes them. That's part of the reason why people go from relationship to relationship - it's great when the person is excited to be around you all the time - it makes you feel wanted and important - but when it inevitably cools off people either wonder what's wrong with them or move on to another new exciting relationship. Your SA may be finding this in porn.

    My marriage, despite it's issues, is one of the best of anyone I know, and it was largely because we stuck together through the down times. It took a long time, and a lot of patience and working on our own problems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  14. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your input. I mean by validate my feelings that he understands that I have ever right to feel that way and that it's a result of his actions. I think it is reasonable to expect that from a relationship. If one partner is doing something to hurt another saying yes I am wrong yes I see why you are hurt is very important. From my end I truly would not have a problem with pmo if there was no effect on our sexual relationship. In my past relationships I had no issues with partners doing it. You may be correct that he just has cut down there's no way for me to know but to trust him. And trust is the problem I see in your situation. If you are not being honest with your wife you cannot possible have a happy relationship. What would happen if she found out? You told her you had stopped she should not have to ask you over and over to confirm. She should be able to take your word. I do think that some but not all addicts can change I just don't know if he's one. Personally I could never be happy in a relationship where I was hiding something from my SO or being lied to.
     
  15. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    You certainly have a right to feel upset by his actions, and he ought to acknowledge it.

    My wife does have a problem with my porn use - she (and I) believe it is is similar to cheating and I fully believe it is her right to expect me to stop. We do have a very good relationship - certainly not perfect - I think she would tell you that she would take me over anyone else. We are both broken sexually - we have both lied to one another about sexual things. So there is a certain mutuality to it all. I don't ask her questions and she asks me about porn maybe once every 3 or 4 years. She seems to accept that it is something I am working on and believes that I will persevere. My addiction... would probably not be considered an addiction by many - I regularly go weeks and months without looking. It was worse 20-15 years ago. Since it is a moral issue for us, my desire is to never look for the rest of my life.

    If she found out that I had looked at porn in the last couple years she would be disappointed and sad - but probably not too surprised. She would forgive me and we would move on. We accept each other and know that we are trying our best - we are moving forward together.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  16. Drewdee446

    Drewdee446 Guest

    It's a respect issue.
     
  17. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    He is doing what my partner did ages ago when he wasn't really working recovery. He is shifting attention to him, playing the "woe is me" card. My fiance did that a lot in the beginning and I ended up taking care of him and making him feel better all the while he got away with whatever we were fighting about.

    Your fiance needs to realize this is about you, you need what you need. Set boundaries, tell him what you need. If he choses to listen to you, then that is good, if not then he needs to take a hard look at himself. Is he in therapy? Addicts don't just get better, they usually need help from a professional. Any person recovering from an addiction or mental disorder usually has a "team" they work with in recovery, whether it's a therapist, psychiatrist, physician, etc.

    I hope all gets better!
     

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