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When her heart is neither for you or against you

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by TryingHard2Change, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    My wife's heart is simply not for me right now. This is evident by how she never really asks how I am doing / our conversations are all about her and her life.

    Part of her relunctance to ask how I am doing might be related to her knowing I love her deeply and I want her and I to be closer relationally....and she is not ready to deal with that reality.

    But I think it's more than that fear...I think she genuinely has no positive feelings for me / about me. (Or they're all blocked by all the pain she is going through)

    ..

    On the positive side, she doesn't seem to have any negative feelings for me either...at least none that she expresses. She doesn't hate me...yes, she is hurt. But she isn't mean or derogatory or anything.

    She is simply cold / absent ... Tonight, New Years Eve, we were home with our two littles ones (ages 8 and 9). I took the little ones out from about 5PM-7PM .. to get them out of the house; they wanted to stay up until midnight and they needed a break from the house. Me and the littles had a good time out..eating some food and getting some snack groceries for our "midnight snack".

    My wife was on the couch on her laptop when we left at 5PM...when we got home, she was still on it--looking over and preparing for her upcoming SCAD classes. From 7PM to 11PM, I spent most of that time sitting on the couch...5 feet away from my wife. We had some red wine / relaxing music was playing / she was on her laptop about 75% of that time....we talked a little bit, but all small talk about her classes, general stuff.

    I was actually in quite a content mood, for a change. It is a strange thing to be content while being so obviously disconnected from your wife, whom you love deeply.

    At one point..when I think she felt a little guilty being on her laptop for hours ignoring me....she put her laptop down and looked at me and said, "Yes???" I looked at her and asked what her question was. And she simultaneously said, "I take that question back...I was asking, 'Yes?? And how are things?'" --- I answered her anyway, and told her that I was feeling very content and happy tonight.

    She immediately responded saying, "Oh good..that takes a load off my back, having to worry about how you are feeling."

    I looked at her funny...and essentially said, "Don't worry about how I am feeling...your actions/attitude toward me don't seem to care about how I feel--don't take on the burden of worrying if you don't really care?"

    I think that is what I communicated...I'm not sure if it came out that clearly or not...or if it came out that rudely either.

    About 10 minutes later, our son texted and I had to go pick him up. When I came home around 10:45PM, my wife was getting ready for bed...our two littles ones still watching a movie. I sat with my wife...she said that she felt like she was disappointing me going to sleep before midnight. I didn't know what to say -- I ended up telling her that her going to bed was not disappointing to me....I told her there were many other things way more disappointing than that. As she was laying down....I communicated very clearly that I recognize that her heart is not towards me right now -- and while her heart is not towards me, I am not disappointed that she goes to sleep. And I hope one day her heart can turn towards me again.

    I sat down on the floor next to her mattress -- I asked if she minded if I sat there while she went to sleep. And then she said very clearly, "It makes no difference to me if you sit there or not." -- and those exact words of hers is what got me thinking about the title of this thread -- her heart is not for me and it is not against...it simply does not care.

    ..

    So that is my New Years Eve. I really hope 2018 is a new year for our marriage. There is a lot of hurt to deal with / a lot of healing to work through / a lot of repair and rebuilding that needs to happen if this marriage is going to survive into 2019. I have faith and hope and confidence that it can happen...even though living through the hours described above is painful and difficult.
     
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  2. NF4L

    NF4L Fapstronaut

    My heart goes out to you @TryingHard2Change, I can’t begin to understand what it would be like going through all of this without the support of my SO. If I remember right the both of you are leading separate lives apart from each other, correct? I think part of this distance she displays is the fact that you are out of sight and out of mind. The other side of it is it’s a defense mechanism, with the P use being a disease of disconnection, she feels she has to be disconnected from you to heal. Perhaps it is to let you know how she has felt all of this time, disconnected, ignored, secondary, unimportant compared to the addiction. I can only imagine the frustration you have with the apathy from her, and not to be engaged with your partner through your struggles. I sincerely believe this can all change once you two are together again later on in the year, and perhaps experience connection and compassion together.
    It sounds like she isn’t ready or willing or unable to listen, and this troubles you. What I might suggest is to write some letters to your wife, for when she is able and willing to communicate with you. This way you can start those hard conversations the two of you aren’t having. You can let her know how you feel. You can start to tell her you are sorry. Or you can write love letters to express how important she is to you. Whatever it is it may be good to capture it and write it down, hopefully for her sake, but mainly your own. Consider these invitations to communicate. Each one is a chance and a start of the dialogue you aren’t having. Perhaps they will be the pieces you both put together to heal.
     
  3. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    To recap the last 7 months:
    ==========================
    [Background] we've been married for 20 years .. we have 6 kids .. we live / lived in Europe since January 2017
    * DDay was June 1, 2017
    * the month of June was pure chaos [for me / for us]..I almost ended up in a clinic for a nervous breakdown (but didn't)
    * June 25th, I stabilized. The month of July my wife and I were on different continents (she was back home in the States..this was planned months before DDay)
    * August-October: my wife and I were together with the kids in Europe..but it was too hard / the marriage was falling apart / my wife (and the kids to a slightly lesser degree) were miserable
    * end of October: my wife and kids moved back to the States .. I have to finish out 1 full year at my job in Europe--the plan is to move home end of January (I'll be in Europe alone for 3 months)
    * November-December: I am in Europe by myself..my wife and kids are back home and are much happier...marriage is still heavily in crisis
    * December 20: I come home for 2.5 weeks for Christmas to see my wife and the kids. We are staying together .. my wife and I are on a roller coaster of emotions trying to walk through this

    Note: both my wife and I have been in individual counseling since June.
    ==========================

    Anyway, with that recap out of the way .. I have written my wife a couple letters the last few days. You can read my recent journal entries to catch up on some of our deep conversations about us. It's all over the place -- one day I feel like we are headed for definite divorce .. the next day, I feel like I can see in my wife a glimmer of hope for the future of our marriage.

    I AM 100% COMMITTED TO THIS MARRIAGE...and to do everything I can to rebuild / restore trust - but I know it's going to take a long, long time. I think one full year will come and go, and it still won't be fully known if we are going to end up going down the path of restoration or divorce. (I hope I am wrong)

    ..

    Regarding this post and what I wrote about how I responded to my wife on New Years Eve -- I regret it; I regret not exercising infinite patience and just sitting next to my wife on the couch for hours and hours and letting her ignore me without it affecting me. I did nobody any good by communicating my frustration/disappointment. I think it's an example of complaining about my hurt trigger finger, after shooting my wife with an Uzi. (see this post if you aren't familiar with the 'Help Her Heal' video series) -- I need to apologize to her tomorrow morning.
     
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  4. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    That's not a good way to spend New Year's Eve, I feel for you. I hope and believe that in a year's time you'll look back at this post and see how far your marriage has grown, as a result of the hard work and self discovery you are doing now. Good luck.
     
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  5. phuck-porn!

    phuck-porn! Fapstronaut

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    argghhhh... @TryingHard2Change i'm sorry for where you're at. Like you i read about the guys here (not many, but a few) that have wives that have their back and are supportive - and i am envious and sad. it's unimaginable to me. my wife, like yours, is just apathetic - she wants me to get better, occasionally expresses that she doesn't know "where I'm at with porn" - i ask how much she wants to know, and it's just the "how long?" sort of stuff...

    because sex has always been a difficult topic/activity for us, i recently floated the idea of eliminating sex from our marriage for good. she was ok either way. gee, thanks for the enthusiasm, huh?? the apathy is awful. i read somewhere once that the opposite if love isn't hate, but apathy. it's really tough to live with

    we have only a surface relationship - which is amiable and workable. there is no intimacy or connection. I am dying living this way.

    a couple thoughts for how i am attempting to deal with and improve it (and would love thoughts from you!!!)
    1. i am resolved to stay married. My reason is mostly that i don't want to f' up the family which i love and is so important to me. whatever the reason it is my resolve.
    2. For a while i tried to make daily Love Language treats where i planned out something small that would say i cared in one of her love languages. this was positive and i will probably restart at some point
    3. i have currently planned out 3 months of weekly dates for us. most are simple. mostly times for us to be up and out together enjoying each other's company. no heavy or serious talks.
     
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  6. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    @phuck-porn!: how long has it been like that between you and your wife? (it's been 7 months for us..our DDay was June 1)

    ..

    I too am committed to this marriage. BUT, I don't think I can stay in a loveless/one-love-sided marriage forever. And to be clear: I don't equate "loveless" with simply "no sex"....a loveless/one-love-sided marriage to me is one where my wife is unable to show any affection to me; her heart is cold towards me; she is not mean or nasty..if I were in physical pain or need, she would help me like any stranger on the street. But my wife is simply unable to show care for me (even though I believe she does care for me deeply).

    So how long am I willing to wait? I don't want to put any definite answer to that...certainly a full year..longer even. But it can't be like this 5 years from now / 10 years from now. That is unfair to my wife; that is unfair to me. My wife deserves to be loved, to be carassed, to be held -- as do I -- right now we are unable to do that as she is processing all of the pain. [UPDATE/EDIT: it's not just about physical touch .. we both deserve to be in a marriage where there is genuine care for one another; someone to grow old with together; someone who cares for you and who you care for.]

    The other reality is both my wife and I are miserable...corporately as a couple but also individually. My wife is not her usual bubbly self...and the kids see it / I see it / my wife sees it -- she can't live out the rest of her days like this...it's not fair to the kids or herself. (we are both 42)

    So, we live one day at a time...a roller coaster of emotions--for me, one day it feels like we are headed for certain divorce .... then the next, I see a glimmer of hope coming from my wife that perhaps she can trust and love me again one day.

    ..

    Focusing now on what I am doing:
    * I have been A LOT more actively helpful around the house..doing tons of mundane stuff like dishes and laundry and straightening up the house, picking up the kids, etc.

    * we go out for dinner quite a bit..dates out have always been a regular thing for us. We need to continue to do that -- and I have to be careful not to go into a deep conversation about us every time

    * I need to allow my wife to be hurt / to be clammed up and distant...I need to do a better job of not taking an offense at that

    * my wife mentioned to me about a week ago, the idea of doing counseling together with a pastor or counselor -- I need to gently push for that when I move back to the States on Feb 2nd (I move back to Europe on Jan 7th to finish out the month of January for work)

    * I need to do better at exercising infinite patience with my wife

    ..

    Thanks for posting @phuck-porn! -- just writing those out has helped reset my thinking / my perspective. (now I need to go back to sleep! I only got about 5 hours and I'm exhausted!!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  7. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    Everytime I read one of your posts about your wife, I feel like I understand and can relate to her. The emotional distance keeps her safe. Her heart has been shattered and she is protecting it.
     
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  8. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    @Sadgirl: I know...the emotional distance is a normal part of dealing with the 20+ years of betrayal trauma. And I need to do a better job of accepting it and dealing with it.

    But I'm not crazy for thinking it can't stay this way forever..am I? 5 years from now / 10 years from now --- we shouldn't still be married and have this non-relationship relationship should we??
     
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  9. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    Absolutely not. Don't get ahead of yourself though! I know it is so difficult not to think ahead but how things are now is not how things will be then. From what you have written, I can't see your wife living with such ambiguity long term and neither can you.

    I highly, highly recommend that you and your wife see a CSAT together. Not a pastor (pastors are notoriously ineffective in dealing with the complexities of sex addiction) and are wonderful for helping the heart, but not the brain about PA. I suspect that if your wife speaks to a CSAT with you, that it will help her immensely.

    Also, re:separating. You have been separated since you have been in Europe alone. Has it really helped anything? I would venture to say no. My husband works out of town half of the month and his absences have done nothing to help our situation. I think it has hindered our progress. I actually prefer when he is out of town as I can distance myself more emotionally from him. Then there is the confusion when he comes home again. Someone posted on my journal about separations (as I had asked my husband to move completely to his apartment) that they end in divorce 85% of the time. Not the best odds. And from my experience, I want my husband to leave because I feel horrible around him (he has been fully commited and trying 100% since D day). I look at him and see years of betrayal, lying, and rejection. Not sure how to wade through that and heal. And I suspect your wife feels similarly.
    Reading your thoughts helps me to have more empathy for my husband though. Thank you for sharing. Would your wife read your journal?
     
  10. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I should probably take this moment to mention and recognize something incredible that my wife has done for me / for our marriage over the past number of years:
    * my wife has faked a good marriage---no a GREAT marriage for quite a while


    I don't know if this has been going on for a few years ... or 5 years .. or 10-15 years or longer. But what I have only recently learned/realized is my wife was miserable in our marriage for quite some time. But, she did the "good wife thing" and laid down her life for the sake of the family and for me. She did such an amazing job of that.....that all of our friends thought we had such a strong marriage -- I THOUGHT we were genuinely happy (even with my secret online porn habit).

    I just recently learned that my wife HATED the idea of moving to Europe at the end of 2016 (technically January 2017)....our entire marriage, we always talked and dreamed about "moving to Europe as a family"...it came kind of late, but it finally happened. My wife, unbeknownst to me, hated the idea / was petrified of the idea in late 2016...but went along with it.

    It wasn't until we were isolated in Europe that I started to see just how fractured our marriage was.

    Anyway, my point is my wife is a saint in how she sacrificed herself for years for me and for the family. In a way, maybe I owe her the same -- to sacrifice a happy marriage to "stick it out for the family"?? But I don't think that is right...because it doesn't make my wife happy -- she is miserable is this quasi-married condition. And she deserves to be happy..far more than me after what I have put her through.....I guess that is why I so often end up thinking to myself that maybe the most noble thing to do / the most right thing to do / the most LOVING thing to do for my wife is to give her a divorce.

    But then I think that this marriage CAN STILL be restored.

    It is so tricky..so difficult.
     
  11. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    No..she won't -- at least not right now she says.

    I first mentioned NoFap to my wife in an email on December 4 (I only discovered NoFap on November 24) ... It was just last week, that I talked more in depth to my wife about NoFap / showed it to her on my phone / showed her my name and avatar / told her about how I interact and use the forums daily. She is genuinely happy that it is such a source of support for me.....and she has said that it seems like a place for me to get help and also help others--saying maybe this could turn into a long-term passion for me, helping other PA's recover. (I genuinely light up when I talk about NoFap to my wife and describe how much it has helped me)

    I told her specifically about my journal..and asked / invited my wife to read it if she wanted to. She stated very clearly that she did not want to read it...she eluded to the fact that she doesn't want to read my journal because it might affect what I write in it if I knew she is going to read it. I told her that was not the case ... but I know that is just an excuse -- it is just her indifference about me .. she has no desire to read my journal -- which is fine, that is the pain she is surrounded by.
     
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  12. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    Do you think she would come on NoFap to our SO forum ? I have to tell you , I wish I found it DDAY. To hear other woman makes me feel less fucking crazy . You are writing and saying and doing all the things I myself would want to hear /see . However , everyone is different . Every relationship is different. Let me be clear when I say this , this is not to vilify you or any PA , I can almost guarantee whatever it is you are feeling , she felt it within you during your PA . And now that there is PROOF , conversation about it , she is rethinking EVERYTHING. EVERYDAY .
    On the SO forum , what started as a small convo about how we should have a counter too , for how we feel , EVERY ONE OF US has been going back to that thread and daily writing “ DAY 0” . This truly is an everyday thought / feeling . Do you know what I did all the while being supportive? I’d once in awhile , not text back . Or Say “ I’ll be right back “ go out and sit somewhere for an hour . Come back and say nothing , he’d hear my phone go off and he would ask who was that , I’d say no one . Finally after randomly doing this for the first 3 months he asked “ What’s going on , your distant sometimes and you tell me where you’ve been or what you’ve been doing , I feel a disconnect “
    I said
    “ THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE LAST DECADE HAS BEEN LKE FOR ME RANDOMLY, I WANTED YOU TO FEEL WHAT ITS LIKE TO WONDER WHAT THE FUCK YOUR SPOUSE IS DOING , WITH NO PROOF OF ANYTHING . DID IT MAKE YOU FEEL CRAZY /INSECURE/WORRY ?? THAT WAS MY LIFE FOR A DECADE !!”

    I have to say , I felt bad doing those things , hurting him , but that’s because I don’t have a PA , he couldn’t feel those things later into the PA .

    If she doesn’t want to read your journal, maybe show her what you’ve written here , what ppl have responded. I think it’s time she needs . Women have egos too , I literally could have gone to a bar on DDAY and had my pick , to serve my ego . I didn’t thank god .

    Keep doing what you are doing , but I have to say , in this time with you away , she simply may not believe you are doing all the right things , which is easy for an SO to think since you didn’t while she was in the same home ? Make sense ? It may not be that she is apethetic /indifferent , when I do the behaviors you mention , it’s me protecting my fucking heart , pushing feelings down so I’m numb and feel NOTHING . So that when and if another shoe drops , I won’t be so hurt. Us SO’s all think , act , feel different . Just like all the PA’s say that same thing .

    Did she watch the Dr Weiss videos ? It’s for the PA , but watching it myself validated ME .
     
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  13. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    @phuck-porn!: something else I thought of this morning to add to my bulleted list of things I should be doing:
    * do all the little things for my wife to show her that I love her: make her coffee in the moring .. when it's 8 degrees out and she has to go somewhere in the morning, warm her car up for her .. etc.

    * maybe another way to put it: do so many things to show her that you love her .. that she has a hard time staying mad / staying cold towards you. (just make sure you are really loving her .. and not just doing those things to manipulate her into loving you)

    (I am speaking to myself in that last bullet) -- I never made it back to sleep...oh well, 2018 has started out pretty good so far this morning.

    ..

    @Sadgirl: I found a CSAT online that looks really good and is close by ... I wrote an email asking if my wife and I could setup an appointment this week and gave a short intro about our marriage in crisis. (just a few days ago..my wife mentioned to me that she would be open to meeting together with a counselor -- I am hoping this is the start of something good)
     
  14. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    @Qnb42078: thanks for your comment .... hearing the SO side is _always_ so good for my mind and soul.

    I did tell her all about the SO private forum . I don't think she will join and participate....at least not yet -- I hope she does one day.

    Everything you described -- that is SSSOOO my wife right now. She is "numbing out" all the time .... and I understand and don't blame her. I see glimpses where she fights through it and we connect ever so briefly.

    But I understand that she is doing what she needs to protect herself....and I just need to give it time.

    ..

    To update this whole thread: this morning I made coffee for my wife right before her alarm was set to go off .... I apologized in person for snapping at her last night with remarks that were mean-spirited and only meant to lay on a guilt trip. (I also had written her an email apology last night) She responded very graciously..saying that we are both going through a lot -- she said very directly that she forgives me...and then we had a short couple minutes together enjoying coffee.

    She had to leave the house shortly thereafter...and yes, I managed to sneak out and start her car to warm it up for her. :)
     
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  15. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    I think that the PA confuses the SO feelings , because MOST of the time I don’t know what the eff I’m feeling . I love this man . Am committed to this man . I am NOT committed to the addiction. So it needs to heal /leave the relationship , if it does not , I WILL be forced to , for my sake . For so long the PA is all about I/ME , for now it needs to be about HER . ( obv not in the way that the PA isn’t focused on his “sobriety “) . You seem to be doing the right things . But as an SO , we can forgive , absolutely especially if you have love for the PA . However I will NEVER forget , it’ll sit with me ALWAYS . For many SO the spouse IS the direct TRIGGER to the feelings . Even just last night , what you went through in your night w your wife , I couldn’t help but look in my handsome husbands eyes for the midnight kiss and think “ please let 2018 be better , please don’t ever hurt me again , please don’t lie “ While in bed we whisper what we want for the next year ( tradition ) , he started with “ happiness , trust , health “
    I followed with “ happiness, trust , health mind body soul , and I added communication, transparency. It sux that at these moments IT is there . I want to get to the time when IT is not . Hopefully time and therapy will help ME, and going back to couples counseling helps heal US . You watched the videos and I think you really get it , the betrayal trauma that is .
     
  16. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    I think once the youngest child gets older, there is a new freedom for a mother, and she is able to spend more time looking at her own goals and dreams. I too gave up my career to be a good wife and mother-always caring for my family first. Sending my husband with baked goods to work, having a spotless house, making home made meals. And as much as I loved it, I sacrificed my own dreams and goals for myself. I think that being 40 also contributes to a woman taking stock of her life and choices. Add a PA disclosure at this time and it makes a woman very reluctant to consider the needs of her spouse when assessing her life. Also, the admission of PA also taints the past-so sacrifices that your wife would have made gladly in the past are now colored with betrayal and anger. So I wouldn't be so quick to label her (by you or herself) as having never been happy in your marriage-I think the hurt and betrayal has colored everything in the past negatively for now. Super common. I know for me I am slowly seeing moments of joy from the past as what they were and not as a negative blanket being thrown on them as I did initially after PA was revealed.
     
  17. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    I think this will be amazingly helpful. A CSAT can explain to your wife that PA is a mismanagement of emotions and a horrible learned coping skill that spirals. That PA's have specific needs as children that were never met. I LOVE the following resources from Addo recovery (the parent company of BloomForWomen an online support group for wives of PAs-honestly I think your wife would love the group/resources at bloom. Very comprehensive. https://addorecovery.com/resources/ The "THE SIX KEY ELEMENTS THAT FORM A SEXUALLY BASED ADDICTION" one might help her to understand. Trying to understand logically what happened to my husband has helped to lift a bit of weight from my heart. Maybe that will happen for your wife too.
     
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  18. You're very wise to realize this.

    My husband has watched Helping Her Heal many times. He learns more each time he watches it. He asked me to watch it with him, and I have been doing that (but I can only "take it" in chunks b/c it can really trigger me, even though it's very validating). My husband wanted to know what "spoke to me" int he video and pretty much 100% of it speaks to me, but I write notes as we go through a section of the video. Then he reviews my notes.

    I get this, and I wouldn't want to be in a loveless marriage either. Love was never in question with us. I wouldn't be with my husband if he weren't working really hard on himself and his recovery and addressing his issues with intimacy. The typical healing time for each person involved in this situation is 3-5 years, especially if it's a long-standing problem. My husband acted out for over two decades. So - no - I am not healed in a year, and neither is he (it's been almost 2 years since he confessed, and he did have a MAJOR breakdown and was hospitalized for a long time - almost ended his life). It's only been a month since we completed a formal therapeutic disclosure, though, so that "re-sets" our clock a bit, IMHO. But we are both making progress. They have a saying in his SA group regarding working on themselves - "Progress not perfection."

    It could trigger her. Some wives want lots of info. Others need less. Every woman is different.

    GOOD! If she is willing to go to counseling, she hasn't given up on the marriage.

    @TryingHard2Change - I am hearing ups and downs. I know this doesn't make it easier, but the roller coaster is normal.

    ^^^ME TOO! We are not alone. (The guys and the gals.)

    Of course at times, I am still in terrible emotional pain, but also at times, I have been able to separate the addiction/sexual compulsion from the good man who is my husband. I wouldn't be with him if the many positives didn't outweigh the negatives. He had childhood trauma (and attachment wounds from his parents), adolescent trauma (cancer diagnosis - fully cured), and a very traumatic career (his choice) which involved life/death on a daily basis. He coped / self-soothed through PMO as an adolescent and then, of course, his problem escalated. I had no idea when I married him. Our marriage has survived a great deal over the past 23 years, so I focus on that, and focus on my own healing, along with building intimacy in our marriage. It takes time.
     
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  19. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    An update for all my friends who have weighed in and given me support on this thread:
    * today was a pretty decent day between my wife and I...we had 3 hours together out and about, running an errand / grabbing a bite to eat / then coffee

    * the first 30-45 minutes of that 3 hours was mostly silence..awkward silence I guess. We were in the car for most of it ... and didn't really say all that much to each other

    * I was oddly at peace though throughout that timeframe

    * when we got to lunch, again there wasn't a lot of talking the first 5 minutes or so...but then we both started to loosen up....and we talked -- nothing deep, just were together

    * the details of our conversation escape me (this all took place 7.5 hours ago now) ... but it was mellow / I think I managed to get a smile, almost a laugh at one point at lunch

    * coffee was her idea...so we stopped at an isolated spot...and that lasted about an hour -- and we were both enjoying our conversation. There was one funny moment early on as we were just getting our coffee -- it deserved the label .. and my wife joked out loud saying, "bad divorce joke moment!" ..... I forget the exact details, but my wife did make a hilarious divorce joke (slightly at my expense) that had me truly laughing out loud

    * we then sat down and had a wonderful conversation about my wife's immediate schooling future / career plans / I mentioned how I was going to help with one new aspect of it / we talked and connected for quite a long time

    It was really a great time together.

    The rest of the day....my wife didn't really interact with me at all. Maybe a good 3 hour chunk was enough/too much for one day for her.....which is fine. I took my 8 year old girl out--she wanted to spend some of her Christmas money. Then I took my 16 year old out for dinner (been taking each one out for a special date before I leave for Europe in 6 days).

    ..

    The CSAT emailed me back--I think my wife and I are going to see her on Thursday.

    OH! At coffee...one of the topics my wife brought up was what each of our paths looked like moving forward .. how we were each going to work on ourselves / our individual counseling / what friends, mentors we each had / etc. I seized that moment to bring up the thought that my wife had about a week ago about us finding a couples counselor locally to meet with in person ..... my wife nodded and totally agreed that we should find someone. I didn't tell her about the CSAT yet .. at that point, I hadn't received an email back from her. Tomorrow, my wife will know her schedule, is she has to work on Thursday or not.....if no work, the CSAT can see us both then!

    I am a little nervous..but very much hoping that all works out for Thursday. The CSAT said she wants to meet with both of us individually and then together -- 3 hours.....I REALLY hope it all works out for Thursday!!!
     
  20. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Another update related to this thread and all that has come from it: my wife is going to meet with the CSAT tomorrow at 10:30 AM!!!

    The CSAT's original email reply to me--after I emailed her on January 1st--was that she wanted to meet with each of us individually and then us together ... three 1-hour sessions. Trying to schedule all of that, last minute, in the next handful of days is going to be tough. But, the CSAT is starting with my wife tomorrow morning...and then we'll see if we get my one-on-one session in (which I am fully flexible, any day / any time this week) --- the tricky thing will be the couple's session. My wife has to work on Thu and Fri this week; I fly back to Europe on Sunday. So maybe that joint session will have to wait until February .. which would suck, but oh well.

    I am just happy that my wife is going to talk to the CSAT. She didn't seem to reluctant .. although, it does kind of feel like I "forced it" on her. Although, we did talk just yesterday at our wonderful 3-hour outing, with an hour coffee together --- doing couples therapy came up and she was all for it [at 2:00 PM yesterday] .... then, when it became more real this morning when I told her the CSAT got back to me, I wasn't totally sure how my wife felt. But, I think she is OK with it.

    Is it weird that I am the one reaching out to the CSAT? Coordinating with the CSAT / then coordinating with my wife? I finally sent an email late tonight to both of them -- all three of us -- introducing everyone / giving our mobile numbers, address, etc.

    Anyway, I hope -- I REALLY hope that my wife and I like this person...it literally is just a cold call sort of thing---I Google'd "Find a CSAT" / found a webpage where I enter my zip code / and found this woman's website....she looks decent, tons of experience, certified CSAT, etc. But, I know it's important that my wife and I are comfortable with her and all of that. We'll see how it goes!
     

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