What's wrong with MO (masturbation orgasm)?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by remmy, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. remmy

    remmy Fapstronaut

    5
    0
    0
    Hi All,

    Currently on day 30 of NoFap. Reading though threads is seems to me folks are even against MO. Though noFap was just to remove fantasy/porn from ones sex life. How else is one to learn about their tool (dick), and practice for sex with a partner? Is is such a bad thing to pleasure oneself? How else are you going to learn what you like, etc?

    Cheers,
     
  2. CrazyGopher

    CrazyGopher Fapstronaut

    60
    0
    8
    Personally I don't think it's a bad thing to MO. I don't think PMO is a bad thing either.

    But they do seem to have certain consequences, and the only way to avoid the consequences is not to do them.
     
  3. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

    1,248
    71
    0
    Hi remmy, the basic idea is that say, if you go for a 90 day reboot of no PMO you will have gone at least a long way in re-wiring your brain away from the detrimental effects of using porn. Nobody is saying you shouldnt MO during or after that and its all a purely personal choice. I personally am recently single and have chosen to go 90 days without even having an O (f****g Superhero mode!!:D;))and its working for me but might not be for everyone etc. I will review my situation at 90 days but I can tell you I will never use porn again and I feel better all round for it.

    I hope others will chime in because this is only my take etc (and I'm on my phone and the screen is jumping all over the damn place!)

    I hope that helped a little :)

    P.s there are also other ways of using your 'tool';) ...

    http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthread.php?4054-Getting-Started-with-Sexual-Energy-Transmutation
     
  4. thomas59160

    thomas59160 Fapstronaut

    52
    0
    0
    Hi Remmy.

    First of all, as John said it's a 100% personal choice so you can set your rules however you want but for my own challenge I've decided to stop everything (PMO), orgasm is only accepted during sex with a partner.

    I don't really agree with you, P is not the biggest problem in my oppinion, anyway if you watch music clips it's almost like porn sometimes :D for my personal case, the worst is M because it really has had bad consequences on my real sex life, as I was saying in my journal I'm almost never able to cum during penetration because my body is used to cum with my dick in contact with a hand... So when I'm having sex with a partner, I almost always have to ask her to make me cum with a bj or a hj because that's the only ways I succeed to do it.

    That's my opinion and I guess some of you won't agree with this but I think that P and the will of O are not really problems but they are bad cause they are trigers which make me want to M.

    English is not my main language but I hope I'm clear :D
     
  5. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

    1,248
    71
    0
  6. EarthDragon

    EarthDragon Fapstronaut

    735
    476
    63
    I agree with the guys who wrote before me, and I only want to add a quick overview.

    Effects of porn:
    - you measure every girl by their outlooks, and you'll only view them as sexual tools. Commonly referred to as "objectification".
    -you get used to extreme scenes (extreme compared to real life situations) and you'll have trouble performing in bed. Referred to as PIED. (porn induced erectile disfunction)
    - it will give you a false interpretation of sex if you haven't experienced it yet, and will lead to a lot of embarrassing and disappointing moments.

    Effects of masturbation:
    - ejaculation is a loss of energy, which needs 72 hours to regenerate. a more frequent masturbation habit will cause an overall tiredness, and you'll have to operate with less energy than normal.
    - the strong grip on the penis will cause it to become desenzitized, making it very hard or impossible to reach orgasm during normal intercourse. a female vaginas tightness could never measure up the strenght of the hand. Obviously. This is the so-called "death-grip".

    Maybe I left something out, but these are the effects that affect the majority of us here, small details may vary.
    Personally I do the same thing as jiltedjohn, superhard mode for 90 days to make sure the reboot occurs, then I'll organise a porn-free masturbation habit. Twice a month should be fine.

    So, there is no recipe that suits everyone, you have to figure this out for yourself. Experiment with yourself, and make adjustments in your reboot process. There is really nothing to lose, but so much to gain. Think, experiment, find your own method. Good luck!
     
  7. monachus

    monachus Fapstronaut

    15
    0
    0
    you should not say "it´s wrong" -- sexuality, masturbation can be used wisely.

    I would say even "porn" since much what is shown in normal movies would have been considered porn a few decades ago, and not all with the label "porn" may be objectively bad -- in an ideal world one could admire the beauty of human beings without thinking of "the one thing" immediately...

    It´s not wrong but you have to use it wisely. The negative points above are cases of this being used not wisely. BUT -- are you sure you can use it wisely? Like the alcoholic saying "I could quit if I wanted, but I don´t want, i don´t have a problem"

    So abstaining at least a while shows you if you are in control of your sexuality, or if sexuality is in control of you. So -- can you?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  8. remmy

    remmy Fapstronaut

    5
    0
    0
    Guys thanks for reminding me that this is a very personalized challenge.

    Believe I do suffer from some of these notions, as the vast majority of my sexual teaching came through the screen and not via an intimate relation with another human being. And yes this did lead to embarrassing/confusing moments on the few occasions I've been out with a girl. Decided to try PMO because from viewing porn(started at age 12) I transitioned into more extreme stuff. I eventually got hooked on viewing material online which are prevented. I was viewing girls online which were of the jailbait category, they did not even have to be nude. Even feels wrong writing about this. I knew what I was doing was unhealthy this is why I'm here to give PMO a shot, to clear up some unhealthy behavior and habits. Definitely getting rid of the P (and all it's forms) from that equation.

    Thanks for the break down and advice, I agree with most of what was stated above. But I also believe M without P can be a healthy part of sexuality. Ideally it be amazing to practice with a parter, and perhaps I should be working toward that versus self practice, :). But M can also be used to build sensitivity, instead of using the "death-grip". I know it's easy to say but not necessarily easy to do if one has habits engraved in him. I did read some multi-orgasmic-man and tantra material. Tantra is all about being relaxed during sex, and not having an end goal in mind, you don't even have to orgasm during tantra. Anyway just wanted to say that during my experimentation with tantra, I did have one body orgasm, which lasted 10 times longer than an ejaculatory orgasm. Your whole body muscles contract for 30-60 seconds, and following that you feel amazing. Guess this is what some girls experience when they orgasm. Anyway just wanted to point out that M can have it's merits if used wisely. I'm currently on day 30 of no PMO, had one nocturnal emission. Great resource here. Thanks again -remmy.
     
  9. CosmicWisdom323

    CosmicWisdom323 Fapstronaut

    37
    2
    0
    I am reminded of a book about sexual addiction called "The Most Personal Addiction". This journey of sexual recovery, regardless of whether you think of it as an addiction, compulsion, or just a bad habit, is indeed the most personal. Everyone is unique, with unique triggers and behaviours in which we indulge, or used to indulge.

    My personal response to the question: What is wrong with masturbating to orgasm without the use of porn? is that for me personally, masturbating is a slippery slope. If I allow myself to masturbate with out porn, I know that it would be long before I am masturbating to porn again, to spending hours a day looking for the perfect video to get me off. This will then leave me feeling exhausted, guilty and ashamed, drained of my life force, with no motivation to go out into the world and meet a real women to have a real connection and intimate relationship with, which is something I have never experienced but truly want to experience.

    That is why I personal have chosen to not masturbate at all for the duration of my NoFap challenge. I am allowing myself to orgasm only when with a women. At the end of these 90 days I will be re-evaluating my life, the progress I made, and may decide to attempt 90 days in hard mode, without orgasm, to see how that affect me.

    My point in all this is that it is a very personal challenge, and it is for each of us to go inside ourselves and identify why we have decided to embark on this journey of sexual recovery, growth and evolution, and set out goals accordingly.

    Cosmic

    Addendum: This is also why I really like the ability to personalize the counter banner. It allows each of us to set our own goals and track and share our progress accordingly. Whether your goal is to stop viewing P, to stop PMO'ing or to stop MO with or without P, you can set your goal accordingly. Good luck to all on their personal journeys.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  10. EarthDragon

    EarthDragon Fapstronaut

    735
    476
    63
    To Remmy: Yes I am familiar with the techniques you mentioned, tantra and stuff. There are great material out there in the topic, and definitely worth reading and trying out. Great job with 30 days too, way to go!

    To CosmicWisdom323: Indeed, M is a slippery slope, and it's probably not too much fun without porn, I agree. Basically that's why I chose to abstain from everything for 90 days. I mean let's say I reach 90 days without MO and stuff. Then my plan is to MO twice a month, I mean I just have to hold myself for mere 2 weeks. That's nothing compared to 90 days, and still, it's just an option. But I believe that if I'm strong enough to hold myself for 90 days, I will be strong enough to resist the temptations of porn.
    I mean...come on, if I can do 90 days without P or M I might as well be capable of anything. And not just me, don't get me wrong. All of us!

    I never thought that doing...heh..not 90 days but 30 days without MO is impossible. And I'm at day...how many? 76? Dammit. :D
    For me this is the biggest benefit of nofap. Unbreakable willpower. Any challanges I'll face in my life, I can say to myself: "Dude, you went 3 months without P or M cold turkey on hard mode. This is nothing." And I get a bunch of other benefits as well. This is a small price guys. Treasure it!
     
  11. remmy

    remmy Fapstronaut

    5
    0
    0
    Just an observation, but It's strange but during this challenge, I feel like I'm missing out on life's experience, on my sexuality. Not sure if this is the beginning of some withdrawals or a cunning way for my brain to slip back into some pixilated fantasy. It's as though I don't have a partner to share intimacy with, so my brain wants to settle for the next best thing, virtual pixilated fantasy.
     
  12. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

    1,248
    71
    0
    When I stopped drinking my 'addictive' voice tried every trick in the book (tellijg me I was missing out, boring etc etc) but it wasnt the real me and once I realied that I began to take my power back. Have a look at this and see if it helps...

    http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthread.php?2430-I-think-therefore-I-fap-(!!)-Dealing-with-withdrawal
     
  13. jbanth77

    jbanth77 Fapstronaut

    25
    0
    0
    Just a note from someone who has just started his personal journey towards self-control.

    I really appreciate the divergence of opinion on this forum, as well as the respect shown for other people's motivations. There is no sense of any overarching judgement, and the ideas are far more universal in wisdom and understanding than one gets from some age-old institutions.

    As someone who was raised Christian and was discouraged from all form of self-pleasure, the opinion here seems to be more Eastern in it's philosophy: cause and effect are measured rationally and one can take from it whatever one so chooses. In a sense, self-control is posited here as being deeply tied to the idea of liberation, strength and freedom. I'm beginning to discover in a very real sense the truth behind this idea and why it is referenced so often in so many mystical and spiritual philosophies.

    I can also see why it is tied to the deeper aspects of love, faith to one's partner or one's higher aspect, or even to a personal vision of God if that is the choice. In any case, it seems to be essential aspect of self-development in whatever form that may take.
     
  14. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

    1,248
    71
    0
    Lovely post mate. Wishing you all the best :)
     
  15. joeshmo209

    joeshmo209 Fapstronaut

    31
    9
    8
    I think MO is not bad in itself, but it is harmful to me because it always leads me back into porn. It's like the same thing when people are addicted to hardcore drugs and they quit, they usually don't want to use any type of drugs even the safer ones like weed and alcohol. For some people MO is ok, but for people that are trying to quit porn, it's just leads right back down to porn.
     
  16. monachus

    monachus Fapstronaut

    15
    0
    0
    It's sad that this is the inage of Christianity today. It was and is quite different in some forms of Christianity -- if you read the early Christian monks, the desert fathers, they talk very differently. For them all those exercises like abstinence are a tool, a means to find God. And they literally write that you should not overvalue the tool itself.

    But that was what happened later -- no pleasure but no idea why one was practicing it. The original idea was that "the pure in heart will find the kingdom of God" and everything that helped a clear mind and heart was seen as helpful.

    Look at John Cassian, on whom the Christian monasteries are in a way all are based on.

    For us today -- abstinence can be practiced for a reason, but it is not a goal in itself. And just as you don't train fornclimbing Mt Everst if you never intend to climb that mountain, sexual abstinence may not be helpful for everyone, depending where in life you are at present.
     
  17. jbanth77

    jbanth77 Fapstronaut

    25
    0
    0
    Hi, thanks for the comments jiltedjohn and monachus. Nice to get some support from someone who is less than two weeks from completing a 90 day challenge (an early congratulations perhaps - hopefully I won't jinx your streak!)

    I like what you said, monachus, about having a goal for abstinence as opposed to simply doing it for it's own sake. And it seems that this is the only effective way to go about achieving the results that come from this practice. It may also remove some of the 'heavy' moral injunctions which are all too prevalent, taking us from the 'Thou shalt not...' phase to a more evolved and positive philosophy.

    However, many of us do begin from a negative state of mind, such as 'I don't want to feel the way I do after PMO (or MO) and I want to quit'. However, it does seem that at some point a more positive goal becomes imperative.

    This is one of the reasons I like this site so much. It is relatively easy to find a wonderful variety of positive reasons for this practice, from greater self-confidence, to becoming more socially adept and outgoing, having more energy, healthier relationships, experiencing 'transmutation of energy' (I got that from jiltedjohn), clarity of mind, inner peace and so forth.

    I've come here a few times when I feeling a bit down and having difficulties, and received a lot of positive and helpful inspiration from the members here. I think that this, far more than any negative ideas towards MO and PMO, has helped me to continue this practice and thus given me the opportunity to start receiving the benefits that come from this lifestyle.
     

Share This Page