What is a "proper" apology to SO? I want to have more compassion but I can't

Porn, like many addictions, is often used to avoid dealing with uncomfortable emotions or stressful situations. Ironically it actually creates extremely uncomfortable and stressful situations in a relationship...

In my case, it took me awhile to realize how hurtful my actions actually were to my partner. I felt like I've dealt with the problem, let's move on. Her hurt emotions and feelings of betrayal and mistrust felt disproportionate to the situation. Of course the were not disproportionate, they were/are entirely valid and reasonable given the situation. Your partner needs to realize that damage has been done to the relationship and your trust. There are consequences to his actions, and that he cannot just sweep it under the rug. If he wants to heal the relationship he will need to validate those feelings and take responsibility for causing them no matter how uncomfortable it makes him feel.
It sounds like he's not in that head space right now. Are you %100 sure he has quite PMO?
You have to communicate with each other. Frequently. You have to be able to express your feelings and be heard by him. He has to be honest about his recovery. I would recommend that you keep doing fanos, every day if possible, to get the communication started and perhaps that will bring the apology once he really begins to understand the impact of his actions better.

 

Oh honey I feel for you. No advice as of yet anyway but in a similar situation. This forum is a blessing, you will see with time it will help you understand things. Here for you, lots of hugs

 

It's a huge clusterf*ck for anybody that is "rebooting." Period. I don't think I saw in your post for how long he had been a user, which can really affect the timeframe of his flatline and libido loss. If he had been a user for years, like me, it can take awhile to get past that.

My experience with it has been that when I flatlined I had no desire for sex, at all. It felt forced and ungratifying. I didn't know what my sexual tastes were at those times either; I felt like I didn't have any. I know what my tastes were before P, and they are gradually coming back, but I still feel some disconnect with them.

He is in a state of confusion right now and probably depression, as long as he hasn't relapsed, which makes emotional connections difficult.

You need to keep in mind that what he is doing right now is life changing, for you and him. I know it's scary, but you need to keep being supportive to see how it ends up. It may not end the way you want; it may end the way you want. You will have to be strong to see. We are all victims of porn one way or another, and we will be supportive of you here.

 

I think this is a healthy reaction from you. Otherwise, you become a so-called co-dependent. He can only help himself.

A healthy relationship consists of two autonomous persons, who can both fully care for themselves. Without lying, without accusing, without demanding apologies, without demanding help, etc.

Therefore, IMHO, apologies are crap. They are part of the "fault & shame" game, which leads to the addiction.
Toss the past away, you can't change it anyway, just look on the now.

 

Good word "self-respect" - that sounds like a healthy balanced person between egoism and altruism.

One note: "to give me the empathy I desire" - I think this is a hole in your soul and a loophole in your relationship - it sounds like you are both emotionally dependent from each other. But adult persons should be self-responsible and emotionally independent from each other, only then it can be a true partnership, a true team.

Did you ever try couple dance ?
If one person doesn't feel the beat, and the other needs to "push & pull", it is exhausting and super annoying.
But when both partners are equally feeling the beat and dancing according to the 'rules', then it melts together, and the experience is super great. It feels totally easy.

Same with music bands, same with good project teams in general.

Of course, team work can also be trained. But it needs the will of all involved persons.

 

I'm not sure exactly.. awhile though. It's tempting to just focus on your own recovery and issues. Validating your partners pain and putting in the effort to heal the relationship felt like a whole lot more work, on top of the significant amount of work required to begin the recovery process... very uncomfortable/unpleasant/emotional work at that. However it's completely necessary in order for the relationship to move forward with any type of honesty and chance of success.

Yeah. It has the same effect on the brain as porn. It gives you the dopamine boost and can be just as addictive.
Most P addicts are probably also addicted to fantasy.

Make it totally clear that the status quo is no longer acceptable and that there are very real, relationship ending consequences if the addiction continues.

Where to begin...I've been working on resolving my underlying emotional issues for years. Counseling, reading/researching, introspection, psychedelic aided introspection (not for everyone), redefining boundaries for toxic family relationships, forgiving people, learning to deal with anger, exercise (a lot), eat clean...
Fanos and scheduled cuddling helps a lot with getting the connection back. Just cuddling when you don't really feel like it can make you feel like it and it will begin to happen more often naturally.

Why isn't he on Nofap? It's probably the best tool for quitting PMO available...If he's really wants to quit, nofap forum is a great way to do it.

 

The "reboot" actually means to get rid of old habits and replace them by new habits.

A time of around 35 days is in fact really good to get used to new habits, but it is important to stay there.
One big pitfall is that you feel better and then you stop - and then you fall back to old habits.

Overall, the reboot is not just 90 days - in fact, it is 20 years ... it's called "becoming an adult"

 

^^^YES. IMHO, (and other SOs too) in order for forgiveness to begin, the addict needs to OWN how he harmed the relationship through a secret/double life and LIES. Lies kill a relationship. The addict has to be sorry for how he caused her pain and trashed the relationship. That is empathy.

Validation of our pain, a sincere apology, and seeing that their behavior is now matching their words --- helps to begin the process of trusting after the rug was totally ripped out from under us.

My hub is watching a video from Douglas Weiss, PhD. I have articulated many of the things Dr. Weiss says to hub previously, yet my words fell on deaf ears. But when hub hears "someone else" say them, he HEARS them. Anyway, this video has helped hub. He's listening to it more than once, b/c there's a lot of good guidance in the video. Here's a link and a clip is on the link:http://drdougweiss.com/product/helping-her-heal-2/
Yes - it costs $60-70, but heck, that's less money than one marriage counseling session.

The fact that hub is opening to learning about this shows me he is making an attempt to not only recover (himself) but is committed to helping me heal from the pain HE caused.

 

I have the same SO as you no really it's so similar it's crazy. He also says things like "I am sorry you feel that way." Or I realize I did something wrong and it's a big deal to you as if I'm making it too big of a deal! He has never said he's not sure he's attracted to me but after he stopped the porn he started ogling every woman in sight in my prescence. He still cannot orgasm from sex and the other day he said that if he had porn and his hand he could get off in like two seconds! Who the heck says that? That's not a sorry person. He gets angry when I bring it up, and defensive. I asked him why he was angry at me and he said I'm angry at myself not you and I said well why are you yelling at me then? I think they are angry at us because they see us as the reason they have to stop. They think I've been doing this a lot longer than I've known you and you just expect me to quit? They are as crazy as it sounds grieving a loss. We also remind them of their weaknesses or flaws and they are angry with that too. I can say I have zero sympathy for my partner and boy have I tried to. I'm normally very sympathetic to people as well. I think the reason is he does not appear to be sorry. If he did I may be able to but he does not. I think the key here is he needs to be stopping because he sees how damaging it is to him and the relationship and because he truly sees your pain. He can't be doing it just to placate you nor can he look at it as temporary. I think many addicts don't truly say okay never again as long as I live no porn. I think there is always some inkling well I can go back to it if I need to. From what I read from other partners the key to me is a man who is truly sorry, takes corrective actions and keeps his promises. I find a lot of the men my partner included are so focused on themselves they cannot even think about you. One last thing I will add. I think my partner suffers from avoidant personality disorder and you may want to consider that for your partner. He just totally lacks the ability to think of others feelings. He's emotionally color blind. I said do you ever think about my feelings before you make a decision and he said no he does not think about anyone's feelings and he's always been that way. He says he does stupid stuff all the time not just with us but everywhere. I now see the reason why is he cannot feel what others do he can't read cues like most of us can. He also is hypersensitive to anything negative. So if you say you forgot to take out the trash he hears I'm a stupid jerk who is worthless and will never amount to anything so he tunes it out. I thought my partner was gaslighting me when he said he did not remember certain conversations but I realized he had totally tuned them out. This can be more of a problem that the porn addiction. I suspect his addiction grew from his inability to connect with women and his anger and pain from always doing the wrong thing and not knowing why. Avoidants can be trained to learn social cues and understand others emotions but unlike most people they will never truly feel them. They will keep a list of what they know upsets you or others and refer to it but without a set list they are never really sure what to do. Intimacy with someone like this is pretty impossible to achieve. They want to be loved but find it hard to do what is necessary to connect deeper. My partner had a hyper critical mother. Sorry to write so much but your partner sounds very similar so you may want to research this and it could help you understand a bit even if you can't sympathize. It's like men that are red/blue color blind. I have a good friend who is and he said I see colors they are just not the same way other people see them. So red looks like brown to me but I've learned over the years that what's brown to me is red to almost everyone else so I learned to adjust. That's an avoidant.

 

He needs to find activities that he enjoys that have nothing to do with the internet. The more someone recovers the more likely they are to go back to old and enjoyable activities. It sounds like he is at that stage of trying but not noticing that he is in wishful thinking. People need to get off the net and learn how to be human again.

Also, it's hard for a non-addict to understand that a porn addict has observed so much defiling behavior that sensitivity towards others is diminished. It's like a mercenary killing over and over again until they're numb. He is numb from it. It takes time to restore this, a long time.

I read on this site that people think that 90 days is what it takes and then they're out of the woods. Not even true. There is a lot to this process and while maybe you don't want to be sensitive to him you have to be patient. If you can't do that then consider other options. He will fail, whether you can live with it or not, he will. He needs to learn from his own insights of himself, and when he does, he will learn what it takes to succeed. It can take many different tries over a long period of time.

Your man will not be successful if it's just for you. He has to find it in himself to do it for a better quality of life.

 

You could be right about a disorder but some of the things you describe at the end might be personality traits. It could just be a personality that he has developed through life. Take the Myers-Briggs MBTI personality test with him and you'll find a lot of insights that a surprisingly accurate. If thinking is his dominant trait and feeling is yours it can create quite a disconnect in situations you where you feel he needs to be more in tune with your emotions. Might even be a mix of ADD interfering with him as well.

His brain is currently trained to go woman to woman because of high speed porn. It's programmed to switch that fast. Ogling is a condition of this that will take time to unlearn. Same thing thing with him getting off to P quickly vs sex. It's learned.

 

Thanks for the advice. He is seeing a counselor now and she does think he has some ADD and possibly is an avoidant but he just started treatment so not totally sure yet. I understand the behavior has to be unlearned but the funny thing is it was not there before. Meanly when he was using porn he never did that but now he is and no it's not that I'm just noticing it now more, it's a change. So it's like a slap in the face. Here I am right next to you and I've spent time to look hot etc and you won't look my way at all. It makes a woman feel like she's not enough and it's very hurtful. Same goes with the porn getting him off and not me. Not to say from a logical standpoint I don't see what you are saying but from a SO standpoint it's just plain hurtful.

 

I agree with you both that it is a lifelong journey, just like any addiction. Alcoholics usually slip up many times in their lives and have to make a conscious decision everyday to not drink, even 20 years out for some. I also agree he has to want to do it for himself, not just the partner. But the more I read these sites the more I see that many men are doing it just at the insistence of their partner. They would be perfectly happy fapping and having sub par sex with their wives for the rest of their lives, but they have been given an ultimatium. To me the motivation should be to have a healthy sex life no matter who it is with. And while we as SO can certainly understand the logic of what you are saying, heck I have a degree in psychology and a law degree, I totally get the science but that does not make me feel any better about committing to a life of this. I don't want to be with someone who causes me to constantly provide a psychological evaluation and where I feel the need to cross examine them daily I do enough of that at work. So what most of us are struggling with is do we want this for our whole lives, when we could choose to either be alone and not have the added stress, or find a man who does not suffer with this. Everyone has their issues, but addiction is a pretty big one to accept. Me, I am just engaged and I am getting more and more certain that this is not a life I want.

 

True, but they may have never had a "healthy sex life" so they don't even know what one is like. There's so much more to sex than just sex; it's a true connection with another human. Sex addiction is, at its core, an intimacy issue.

They may not have a clue of what they are working toward, or if they really want a healthy relationship vs. a life of porn, prostitutes, etc. Their sex life (if you want to call it that) was with fake, pixelated women or fake fee-for-service women, not women who were connected with them in a spiritual, loving way.