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Vengeance

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Deleted Account, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Ladies we have been wronged. We’ve been tossed aside so they could selfishly indulge in things other than us. It’s hurt us, our sense of self-worth, our self-esteem, self-confidence. It’s betrayed our trust, hopes, visions, beliefs..even dreams. It has made us question our beauty inwardly and outwardly. It’s made us doubt our reality. It has brought heartache and tears. Anger and strife.


    Do we have a right to feel betrayed, angry, yell, scream, stomp, slam doors, cry, wine? Absolutely! Do we have a right to walk away? Absolutely! Do we have a right a right to focus on ourselves (if we have kids, them) and what we want our future to look like? Absolutely! This journey will be individual and not look the same for everyone. Absolutely do what is right for you!


    One thing that we should steer clear of though is vengeance. I hope I don’t come off as being self righteous here (because I’m far from it) but vengeance will more than likely not help your situation..at all. It will probably push us further away from our end goals whether it’s restoring our relationships or ourselves.


    I found this article to be completely relevant...


    https://www.quora.com/Is-vengeance-ever-good


    What are some of the ways you’ve been processing through your journey? What have you found to be most helpful? With so many new comers I thought discussion on healthy ways to express and work through might be helpful...
     
  2. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Ooh..... I don't know if I want to answer yet...


    *pulls up a chair.
    *sits
     
  3. Lol good or bad. All advice wins and loses...can be helpful
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  4. For me...

    1. Education- The more I know the more understanding I will have.

    2. Control - Tried to control or be the Porn Police. But this made me anxious all the time and I felt like I had to check up on him all the time. I still randomly check but it’s far less because being obsessive about it wasn’t promoting healing for me.

    3. Boundaries - Figuring out what is acceptable and what is not. Compromise even. Consequences if broken boundaries.

    4. Expression- Let him know how I feel. How it’s hurt me inside. Even though that opens me up to be slightly vulnerable. Even if my feelings anger.

    5. Evaluation - evaluate my personal progress. His progress. Plans.

    6. Choices - do I stay or do I go? What will each look like. How much work am I willing to put in. How much patience and tolerance Can I handle.

    7. Healing - self love and pampering. Taking care of me so I can be of healthy mind, body and soul.

    8. Support - engaging in support through Support partner, forums, etc.

    Oh and then not helpful was...#2 and

    9. Freaking out - after initial discovery I lost it big time. Screaming, crying, cursing...woke him from a dead sleep. Made him reluctant to tell me about relapsed for fear that would happen again.

    10. Conformity - I tried to compete with Porn by doing things relavent to his fetish. Reading up on his fetish. Being hard on myself about performance, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2017
  5. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    So..... I think vengeance is probably only a good solution in our situation...
    Wait for it...
    Once...
    Because it relevels the playing field of marriage once again.
    You Have to go back to the foundation.
    You have to start over.
    This is more difficult with staggering disclosures...
    But it's important for the SO to finish "tearing it all away"
    So both parties can rebuild their relationship again.
    Without vengeance the person who was unfaithful can't be "reset" and neither can the relationship.
    Both people Must be fresh and different people.
    Or a new relationship cant happen.
    My opinion.
     
  6. All opinions welcome! I’m completely okay with differing opinions thats what makes us all individual.

    Here is the definition of vengeance though and I’m not sure what your explaining sounds like vengeance to me.

    Vengeance:
    1. punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.
      synonyms: revenge, retribution, retaliation, payback, requital, reprisal, satisfaction, an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth)
      "your appetite for vengeance has destroyed your life"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2017
  7. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I don't think I disagree with these sentiments...what I don't know how to reconcile is the past / the long history -- if you are with someone for 10 or 15 or 20 years---it's not like you erase that history, is it? It wasn't ALL bad times?? (if it was, the relationship probably SHOULD end)

    Or maybe you DO have to start over with a clean slate? But what does that really mean married 20 years with 6 kids???
     
  8. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Me and Rock Star have almost a decade of history.
    5 kids.
    When the SO looks at it... Xmas when you left dinner and "went to the bathroom" you left to pmo.
    Xmas = ruined.
    Birthday party that you had a fight = angry because of pmo when you couldn't be excused

    We can pretty much cycle the relationship around and it's sully.
    It's time to throw it out.
    It's time to get to know each other again or get the fuck out.
    Tear it down.
    Do it better.
    Where did we go wrong?
    You have a problem.
    OK.
    Now, your problem gave me a problem.
    Let's address this also.
    Nice to meet you.
    Nice to meet you!
    Should we stay together?
    If no, OK...
    If yes... How?
    We both have problems now thanks to the problem that was snuck into the first relationship.
    But moving forward... New relationship.
    Dating, intimacy, boundaries, consequences and transparency.
    It's about working together and trying as a team this time.
    Two people is your team... When yo hhave more than that your boat sinks.. Learn from your mistakes. (no adding porn stars along the way this time!)
    Do it right.
    Rock Star reproposed after 6 months clean and let me replan a new wedding.
    To marry the sober him.
    Clean slate.
    I thought it was a good idea.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  9. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

  10. But how is that vengeance over restoration?
     
  11. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Vengeance to tear it down.
    Restore to build a new relationship.
    It's like breaking up with your SO and then leaning on your SO again as a new person.... This is only possible if you accept your Also a new person
    The vengeance takes care of this.
    For both of you.
     
  12. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    It's a demolition period.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  13. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I'm sorry if I'm hijacking your thread @Broken3 .. but I just re-read what @Kenzi wrote in her reply to me -- and it sunk in even more (like fine wine, better with time!)

    I'll personalize what she stated in response #8 above (looking at it in reverse from the PA's perspective):
    * when I was secretly looking at P for the entirety of our 20-year marriage .. I compartmentalized it as no big deal / it wasn't affecting our marriage / it was my side thing [all lies I now realize I was telling myself]
    * now, looking back on 20 years of marriage .. my instinct is to think: the marriage wasn't all bad / actually it was pretty darn good except for that problem with P
    * but that is the same, wrong cycle of thinking -- OF COURSE consistent PMing had huge negative impacts on our marriage/relationship ... as @Kenzi said, it did sully the entire marriage/relationship

    Now, we have 6 great kids..we have built a life together for 20 years....but our relationship is completely sullied. Starting over / new foundation / all of that rhetoric is actually what is needed / it is what is best.

    It's like a light bulb just went off. :emoji_bulb:
     
    lovebug_km, Deleted Account and Kenzi like this.
  14. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    It's ok.
    Really.
    When the lighbulb hit Rock Star he proposed to me at the side of our bed... And asked me to marry a sober him.
    I had been telling him that it was all damaged...
    And he didn't get it for a long time.
    It does feel bad... I would like to feel sorry for this, I can't.
    I used to be OK with porn even but I couldn't get behind the lies.
    I don't know the intricacies of your relationship.. But I bet it's her deal breaker too and that's where she sits.
    So she is weighing how much the lies against the loving past relationship sit....
    Which can be alot versus alot.
    Like I said, vengeance is good.
    But only once.
    Tear it all down.
    Start over.
    Do it right.
    That's why Rock Star made his lists.
    Everyone has a different way tho.
    @vxlccm, @Strength And Light and @kropo82 are long-term rebooters all married who I hold in very high regard. I'm sure they also have opinions on what to do.
     
    vxlccm and Deleted Account like this.
  15. I guess when I think of vengeance I think of being so angry with someone that you want to make them “pay” for the pain they inflicted upon you. Revenge. Getting even because you feel justified in doing so.

    I might not understand exactly what you mean (we’ll talk off line ;)) but To me this sounds like restoration...

    Restoration:

    1. the action of returning something to a former owner, place, or condition.
      "the restoration of Andrew's sight"
      synonyms: repair, repairing, fixing, mending, refurbishment, reconditioning, rehabilitation, rebuilding, reconstruction, overhaul, redevelopment, renovation;
      informalrehab
      "the restoration of derelict housing"
    2. 2.
      the return of a hereditary monarch to a throne, a head of state to government, or a regime to power.
      synonyms: reinstatement, reinstitution, reestablishment, reimposition, return
      "the restoration of democracy"
     
    vxlccm likes this.
  16. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    I guess... If you return it in a very angry manner, sure
     
  17. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Lololololol... Imagery
     
  18. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    5,292
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    If you add a little baby diaper poo into spaghetti dinner at night, it wrecks it. Flat out worthless, despite all the rest of the effort. We all understand that principle. I respect that. More, I respect that that's how it /FEELS/ when years that should have been happy were colored and muted and distorted by an addiction or other types of dishonesty.

    @TryingHard2Change I don't think the analogy holds to a life lived together. The reason is this.. nobody is perfect. If even a little diaper poo spoils the meal, then what about every speck of imperfection that either side brings into the relationship and their daily life? A guy like John McClean can resonate so well because he talks about principles. (I'll let others tag/invite him if desired since this isn't a PA thread.) Not just having principles, but using them as a foundation for the marriage. And, it is foundational to have honesty, good communication, and so forth. If the PA would have talked to his wife as they encountered things, and as they fell victim to things, perhaps the choices would be different. Perhaps lives could have stayed closer to the happy light of honesty and fidelity. The elephant-in-the-room problem is that most all PA types (as in, absolutely -all- of us) were exposed to P at an age way WAY before marriage, and were already locked-in with this double life. At least at one point, and maybe it just returns because of inadequate coping skills to stressors that eventually arrive with family obligations. Everyone's story is different, but the existing underlying trauma and established bad behavior is fairly constant.

    @Kenzi, there's something to say for vengeance. I for certain turned over my life to the whims of my ex. She more or less wanted blood from a stone and also made the decision to leave. As my problem continued (resurgence) into my next marriage, though, I had a completely different experience. I was twice broken then from the divorce, as well. And, honestly? I wanted to bleed, I wanted someone to exact vengeance. But, that didn't happen. There was hurt, and gentleness, and trust. A truer love, one might say. Perhaps "more mature" is a better way to put it. In the younger years with my ex, neither of us were all that mature, in retrospect, although me even less than her. I didn't know how to deal, then, with my wife being understanding and willing to accept, and not wanting me to pay a price in blood. It made me want to hurt myself, at first. Like a child of abusive parents. I didn't know how to not pay a price in pain. I then came to realize the pain wasn't helping me, anyways. The pain might have helped my ex, which is also okay were it necessary.

    @Broken3 The idea of restoration is perfect. How do you restore a car that was totaled, though? So, it depends on the damage. Sometimes forgiveness is the only key. A clean slate is like how they "restore" a building with historic significance by basically buttressing and completely re-engineering the thing from the inside out, leaving only a brick façade in place -- the rest completely anchored and rebuilt. That can work even after a roaring fire has gutted the edifice. These things are not instant, but are step by step. And, unfortunately, sometimes relapse upon relapse with renewed pain.

    - - -
    If there is respect, forgiveness, and love available from a wife..
    That, with a husband's humility, truthfulness, and perseverance..
    Then, our relationships can heal in time.
    (Not "with" time, but with effort /over/ time spent in communication, trust-building, service, shared positive experiences, and an eye for the good. And, in my case, prayers.)

    Those are my thoughts.
     
    Deleted Account and Kenzi like this.
  19. I agree with this whole heartedly :)
     
    vxlccm likes this.
  20. Not at all! It’s all communication, information and perspective sharing! I love all of it! Hijack away ;)
     
    Kenzi likes this.

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