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To Tell or Not To Tell

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Meshuga, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Thank you for responding. As for guts, a few minutes after I had posted what I did, I had hit the link to delete it and was staring at the dialog requesting a reason for deletion, but I just left it. I don't think it's possible to fully explain my position unless I were to come clean about all of my actions, and this is where I think I'm mixing 2 separate issues. I don't deny the benefit and necessity of including a SO in recovery. I know it would be dramatically more helpful than recovering alone, and I can't imagine anyone making a strong and valid argument against that. The issues that people tend to disagree on come down to 2 things: one, the timing of making the revelation, and two, the scope of the revelation or how much to tell. One side of the argument would say tell immediately and tell everything, and that's where my opinions diverge. I'll answer your questions and hopefully provide a little insight into where I'm coming from.
    Worst case scenario would be separation and or divorce. Destroying my family. I'm a porn addict who has lied to his wife since we've been married. I was not honest about the extent of my porn habit when we got married, and many times my wife has asked me over the course of my marriage if I was viewing porn. I lied to hide my addiction out of fear, shame, and embarrassment. I was lying to myself thinking I had it under control. Mine was the behavior of an addict, and my betrayal runs deep. I know the lies will be one of the deeper cuts, especially if I come clean regarding the full scope of my addiction.
    This is where the scope issue becomes relevant. If we just limited my secrets and lies to porn addiction and nothing else, I would mostly be arguing from a position of weakness. I don't know how to apply a percentage. I can say I'm protecting my wife from the harm of knowing I betrayed and lied to her, but wouldn't that also be a selfish statement and proving I'm only protecting myself from consequences? I won't deny the fact that I'm protecting myself from suffering the repercussions of bringing my addiction out into the light, but as I've always alluded to whenever I write about this issue, my addiction is more than just pornography. I also acted out, in what I feel are unforgivable ways with regards to my spouse. For the sake of argument, and it's difficult to equate different things, but I'll provide an example of a sin I'm not guilty of. Let's say my crime was chat rooms, that part of my addiction involved...I don't even know the terminology - sexting? Communicating with what I hoped were women in cyberspace, typing and revealing graphic, sexual things. Let's say that my acting out in chat rooms became too much for me, I was consumed with guilt, and I stopped it and "dialed back" my addiction to straight porn. If I knew that revealing my chat room progression would do permanent damage to my relationship with my wife, and in order to protect our marriage I only reveal my porn addiction to her so she can help with my recovery, is that valid? Am I doing the right thing? No, probably not, but replace "chat rooms" with something much worse (not illegal, not an affair, but much worse), and my fear is now compounded. This is a no win situation for me or my wife. I've done horrible things that would destroy my family if revealed, which leads to your next question.
    It plays into it 100%. I have young children, and that plays into my motivation to recover and stop my addiction, but it especially provides motivation for me not to destroy my marriage. It's why I won't have an affair because that's a betrayal that would end in divorce, and I'm also deeply in love with my wife, so it's not just the children. Have I betrayed and lied to her? Yes. Judge me for that, and I won't argue. Curse at me and say what you will, and I can't defend or excuse myself. So what now? I'm working to recover and repair the damage I've done, and I'm doing that because of my wife and my children.
    No, because I wasn't ready to confess. This goes back to the timing argument. I was at a point where I was looking into ways to educate myself about addiction. I knew I needed to stop, but I did not have a recovery mindset. This is a point that can be an entire thread on its own. What motivates an addict to recover? First and foremost, it's a rock bottom moment. His or her life has reached a point where it's destructive for everyone, and professional help may even be required at this point (mainly for substance addictions). Reference AMC's Intervention series. Now step back from that, and examine functioning addicts. What would motivate a functioning alcoholic to quit drinking when there is no imminent rock bottom moment? The alcoholic/addict has to create those motivations, and I believe they have to come from within and not from an external source (spouse). This is the problem with so many non-addict SOs on NoFap - their addict didn't have a rock bottom moment, and the non-addict SO wants to create the motivation for their addict to stop the addiction. Unfortunately, that motivation has to be internal to the addict, or the addiction will continue unabated. I believe I was trying to create a rock-bottom moment for myself in that confession. It worked for a time. I can't remember how long. The problem is my wife or any other SO can't babysit an addict, which means after time passed and emotions calmed, it was just me and my addiction, and since I wasn't in a recovery mindset my addiction continued.
    In my specific case, I don't think so. My wife actually brought it up to me a couple weeks ago, and mentioned that she hasn't been holding me accountable and if I would be willing to install blockers. I was very open to it, although honestly neither of us have pursued it since then, but I don't think a blocker or accountability software is the solution. It's an aid and will help with triggers perhaps, but I need to work on my internal issues and dealing with my emotions. I see your point though, and it's the best argument for telling your SO. It will be the reason I eventually tell my wife more about my addiction so she can better understand how serious it is.
    This post is turning into a novel, so I'll try to be brief moving forward. To #6, yes. You can personally attest to that, especially with my posts on Romance and Appreciation. I'm taking actions to reconnect with my wife and resolve other issues. As for #7, not so much, but then again I'm very good at hiding or dodging whatever is going on with me. I know this is bad, and I know tools like FANOS will help.
    There are multiple timelines, but my most successful effort would be when I joined NoFap on 7/11/16. Before then I had joined SA, but I was not able to go to meetings due to the secrecy of my addiction (fully supports your argument), however I did tell my wife about SA during my mini-confession, and she was not supportive about that group at all. Probably hampered my recovery because part of the outcomes I was hoping for in telling my wife was to be able to openly go to SA meetings. That didn't work. Since joining NoFap, my longest clean streak was 34 days. I've reset twice since then, my 2nd one was 8 days ago. This is an entirely different issue. Let's say my wife is fully involved in my recovery. Would the accountability be enough for me to stop a reset? Perhaps, and you will probably disagree and convince me otherwise on this next point, but I have doubts about motivating myself to not view porn based upon the consequence of having to tell my wife. I would rather not surf porn from internal motivations, which my wife is part of them, but I feel that would be a stronger form of porn abstinence. I'll end this post. Not sure if this was helpful to you or not, but I would appreciate feedback, disagreement, or anything you feel is appropriate.
     
  2. September

    September Fapstronaut

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    Let me add a vote. I actually would prefer not to know. I would prefer him to heal with help of a pastor or a counselor BEFORE I started to ask questions. When I asked him openly he didn't fully admit he had a problem and didn't quit after that. If she asks you need to be honest and open, that's for sure.
    I investigated and found myself, only then he confessed.
    I have a low self esteem and struggled with body image problems as a child, my family struggled with alchogolism. I started to go to gym, lost 20 pounds, blamed myself, got anxiety , cried a lot, read a lot about the problem. Turned to God with my problem -that was the most helpful.
    I'm more or less OK now but I'm actually afraid he still watches porn subs sometimes. That bothers me much, I don't believe he likes my body and see me as a beautiful women.
    Actually I don't know -is it possible for a struggling person to spend much time in social media, play games, stay awake till 3 a.m. and not contribute to the addiction....?
    I don't know about your situation. To me such a confession would be like a surgery- painfull but healing. If he made it with an intention to heal, to seek for help or if he wanted hard mode rebooting. That would be OK. My investigation was not OK. I'd better concentrate on other things in life than our marriage and not to feel so much pain...It's just like if a wife was in love with a man other than her husband would he like to know or would it be better to struggle on her own? I'm just trying to see the flip side as I didn't like P, now I hate every nude picture I see...ptsd
     
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  3. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    I just wanted to jump in with a quick thank you. I appreciate so much that you were courageous enough to be vulnerable here and share where you are at and what you are wrestling with. It's clear to me that you are taking all of this very seriously and trying really hard to make the right decisions for everyone involved. Hang in there. I can tell that isn't an easy thing for you and so I also want to say that I wish all the best and for discernment and wisdom in determining the recovery path you need to walk.
     
  4. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

  5. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    @zathura I was going to say something similar and will get back to your above comments later. It's clear that it wasn't easy for you to stand up in this "room" so to speak and I appreciate that you did. I would never curse at you and if I try to convince you do something differently, I would hope I could do it in a respectful way that is healthy for both of us. (And if I can't, I'll have to report myself because I don't tolerate otherwise!)
     
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  6. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    I consolidated some (though not all) of what I believe to be the strongest arguments for informing the SO, and put them in this new thread. Thanks to all of you for helping contribute. The goal is not to be on the "winning" side of a debate. The goal is to lessen the net amount of pain in the world by helping porn addicts and their SOs to recover, repair, and re-bond. I also appreciate @zathura 's honesty and willingness to represent his position. The fear us addicts face in informing our SOs is genuine and legitimate. I don't want to pretend it isn't and turn it into a straw man.

    Next is how to tell the SO, and how much to disclose. Should an addict describe every detail, or are some things better left vague and in the past? I doubt we'll reach as firm a consensus on this issue.
     
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  7. I get what you're saying, and the examples you listed definitely fall into the category of what should be revealed to your SO. As you can see from my posts, I struggle with what I can or can't tell my wife. I also struggle with the question of what I would want to know. I don't think I can objectively answer that question, but for some things I can. I would absolutely want to know if my wife stepped out on me, or if her actions would impact our finances. However, I've asked myself the question of would I want to know if my wife had done something similar to my actions. I can't be objective with that one because I would use it as a justification. If it were ongoing, I would want to know. If it were being addressed and resolved, I don't know. I think I've built up the belief in my mind that I'm a lot more forgiving than my wife. We've even discussed this. She has adamantly declared her intention to divorce me if I ever have an affair. Whether that's true or not is something I refuse to test. I, however, can't say the same thing. I would be devastated, but I can't say I would divorce her right out. It would depend on the circumstances. A one time slip-up would be easier to forgive than an ongoing, long-term affair, but I can't say for sure because I've never experienced either. I do think, however, that her opinions on the matter contribute to my belief that some things are unforgivable in her mindset.

    You raise the issue of full disclosure. I had dealt with this issue a bit in another's journal with regards to NoFap.com. I joined this website not understanding how much it would help me in my recovery. I've revealed things on here in my journal and elsewhere that I would not want my wife to read, but I hadn't thought through this issue of bringing my wife into this journey of recovery. Now that it's on my mind, I'm presented with quite the dilemma. What do I do about NoFap? I would have to keep this site and my identity secret from my wife in the same way she would keep a personal diary secret from me - I don't think either is wrong. It's unfortunate because I would love to replicate the openness and the lines of communication that @fupornwife and her husband have on this site, but I wouldn't be able to do it as Zathura. Even if my wife and I joined as damnyouporn and dupornwife, I would be constantly stressed that she would wander onto my Zathura identity and recognize me as her husband. "So...what is this unforgivable sin you keep referencing????"

    Addiction, secrecy, lies - they're all interconnected. I wish it weren't so, but It's becoming a lot more clear to me that to eliminate the one, you need to destroy the others. I'm still left with the same dilemma as before - when do I tell and how much do I disclose.
     
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  8. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    I actually commented on this question in the journal of @Dendrite on Saturday. In his case, he just told his wife and though he was worried, he did tell her about nofap, but she's not interested, at this point, in joining. Here are the relevant parts of what I said to him. (Including the fact that there was discussion about my husband and I as this possible ideal for healing, doing it together at nofap.)

    If she ever is aware of this website, I don't think she would be helped in any way by ever discovering it. To me, that's not secrecy. I would compare it to not wanting my husband to be a fly on the wall during a vent session I have with a group of girlfriends. I love my husband but sometimes when I talk with my girlfriends I may complain in ways that could hurt him.
     
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  9. My husband chose to tell me a few days after he chose to divulge that he'd been taking money (cash) out of our joint financial account and stashing it (maybe for prostitutes)?

    I agree that often many don't 'choose' to be addicted, but it's a risk if you shoot heroin and such. The problem with not disclosing to a spouse/SO in this situation is that the addict is potentially exposing the other person to HIV/AIDS. IF they were with prostitutes as my husband was. That's pretty unfair to risk another's life in that way.

    Anyway, my humble opinion is to tell the SO in a gentle, loving or safe way. Possibly with a counselor that could support both people? I was/still am traumatized. He continues to remind me how thin the prostitutes were. I am not "fat" and I am not "thin" I am truly medium and I am attractive. This is his problem for sure. Started with strip clubs as a young guy, then porn when the internet came on the scene, then moved to prostitutes. I wish the news was shared in a way that was more "safe" emotionally, if that makes sense.
     
  10. True-Self

    True-Self Fapstronaut

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    I think the how is related to the severity of the confession. In some cases as @LizzyBlanca suggests professional help may be needed. If the confession is "milder" they may not be needed. Regardless I think it's important to have some type of plan for recovery in place and to have done some research on the addiction prior to talking with your SO.

    Regarding how much, I feel that @Ted Martin's post covered this well. I think that it's important to disclose each way that you "interacted" with your addiction. Was it only visual (videos, pics) or did you interact with someone else in another way (texting, chatting, physically). In the case of videos, I don't think it is necessary to recount each type of P that you watched (unless some content was illegal). I think the appropriate confession would be, "I am watching too much P and it has become a problem. I am actively working to stop watching it".

    Also relating to how much to disclose I think it's helpful to think about how much information you would want to know if your SO had the addiction. In the case of marriage, I don't think it's fair to hold back information that would have possibly impacted the decision to marry had the information been known prior to it. For example if "interacting" with other people would have ended the premarriage relationship, than it's not fair to withhold this information now just because you are married.
     
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  11. Dendrite

    Dendrite Fapstronaut

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    Quizzes! The bane of the internet, yet so tantalizing to answer...

    Breaking up the family. I never see her again, I never see my kids again. Kids suffer, become the subject of a Will-Nobody-Think-Of-The-Children Prime Time TV Movie or whatever the 2035 equivalent is.

    My SO. But it's a strange question ... the point of being in a relationship is to "merge" the two individuals, isn't it? So the real answer is "neither". I'm protecting the relationship.

    Without kids involved, I would still not want her to know. But with kids involved, it makes things much worse. Children should have a good father. I may be a godawful husband, but I'm a bloody good dad. There's no guarantee that a step-father would be anywhere near as good.

    Hell no. I've done the minimal confession too. After struggling for so many years and failing every single time, I could see no way out at all. What would be the point of telling her "Hon, I'm doing all of this really nasty shit, and next week/month/year I'll be doing it too, so just get used to it because this is going to be our life from now on"? There aren't any good options that come out of that conversation. It's only now that I have some hope for recovery that confession becomes a real option.

    Yes and no. I haven't left any offline traces of my addiction, or reminders to quit it. Now that I think about it ... maybe I wouldn't have left any offline traces anyway. How would I explain them to the kids? Before I told her, if she asked questions, I just told her that I had my reasons and left it at that. She knows that I don't deliberately do things for bad reasons so that is a good enough explanation. After I told her, there's no need to even say that.

    Quitting PMO only. The warped sexuality and accompanying lies/betrayal is literally the only thing that's wrong with our marriage ... or at least, it is by far the biggest thing. The rest of it is part of the daily routine, completely separate from the PMO. As far as we can be, we are 100% honest with each other.

    My withdrawal symptoms are greatly-increased nervousness and tension, and tremors.

    17 July. Yes, multiple times. 14 days.
     
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  12. Dendrite

    Dendrite Fapstronaut

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    Well said! That's happened to me, twice. And I felt like the worst piece of shit in the entire universe when I failed her each time. You can guess how things escalated after that. I think this is beautifully phrased - my wife or any other SO can't babysit an addict. Part of the recovery mindset needs to be accountability AND understanding that we have the power to choose. How do you develop that if you are relying on someone else saving you from yourself?

    There's a beautiful quote in someone else's signature that I want to bring up here, because it's so related to this ... it goes something like this: God can move mountains. I need to bring a shovel. It's good to have support. But support is worth fuck-all if you're not committed to do the bloody work yourself.

    I love my wife very deeply. But past experience has shown me that this kind of "accountability" just doesn't work for me. That's not to say that in 60 days, it won't work for me. But right now, in the midst of relapsing and getting my head straight and figuring out how to keep to the path, the very last thing that I want to do is hurt my wife because of my stupid fuck-ups. After a 60 day clean-streak, maybe I'll be able to say to her "I relapsed, after (some large number) days", and begin an honest conversation if she wants to go there and talk about it.
     
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  13. Marsbar

    Marsbar Fapstronaut

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    I am so glad I found this thread! As a newbie this has obviously been the dilemma that I have been wrestling with. To cut a long story short, my 40 odd years of PMO escalated to acting out and I have also done things that I also believe are beyond earthly redemption (all legal though) and which drove me close to suicide on several occasions.

    I will not go through all the thoughts that have been going through my mind since joining as they are scattered throughout the forums already, but having read all the posts in this thread and others, this is what I am taking away from it: I have decided that by disclosing everything in one fell swoop will do more harm than good, and I think it will be more about me purging myself than really genuinely considering my wife. Having said that, I also don't believe in a half confession. But I think there is a middle ground. Luckily I am away from home (on a "job opportunity" that is actually a fix-this-or-kill-myself journey - thankfully I found this site), and I have a few days to think about this before I visit home again.

    Basically I believe that while I need to disclose what I have done, I don't believe that she needs to hear all the sordid details. I think that would be cruel and unnecessary, and again would be me wanting to purge myself and would only serve to blow her mind. The one redeeming factor is that the one thing I managed to abstain from was sleeping with someone, as in penetrative sex. Somehow there was always a voice in mind stopping me from crossing that line, despite the urge often to do so. In all honesty though it was also my way of convincing myself I wasn't really cheating on my wife, which of course I was anyway. I still don't think that even the redacted version will save my skin, so it is not a consolation but more a consideration to my wife.

    Now I'm still getting to know my way around this site, and I'm not yet au fait with multiple links, but I'd also like to answer some of @fupornwife 's questions that she posed earlier, and that I have not answered above:

    1. What is your greatest fear of what would happen if you came clean?
    That I will be rejected. That she will look at me like a stranger, and hate what she sees. That she will leave me and that I will still have to look her in the eyes for the rest of my life, (we have a child). When we first met we agreed that should one of us ever go off the rails, and we realised it was a mistake (if you fall in love with someone else then what can you do?), we would never tell each other. The guilt alone would be that party's punishment. Of course now I realise that it's not that simple, and that guilt has serious repercussions.

    5. Is not telling her what's going on hampering your recovery in any way? Like, are there things you're hesitant to do, such as start leaving your cell phone in another room, or installing blockers, in case your SO asks questions?
    Not giving all the details will not hamper my recovery in any way. Yes, there will always be the fear that I bump into someone on the street who will recognise me, but that fear would be there regardless of what I tell her. This will be a consequence of my actions, and will be a face not a hidden lie.

    6. Are you making better communication, connection and a stronger marriage part of your reboot or are you focusing on quitting PMO only?
    Yes, definitely both.

    7. Has your SO noticed and commented on any changes? Perhaps more time to spend with family? On the other side, perhaps withdrawl symptoms such as moodiness or flatline?
    My SO has known for some time that there was something wrong, and I kept blaming my bi-polar (which came first, the chicken or the egg?), but I know she wasn't convinced. But I also know that she is starting to see a postive change in me, and I can tell that she is relieved as she also bouncing back (for now). I have yet to test the water sexually though, (I had developed PIED - couldn't get it up, and when I did it was a 3 second PE).

    8. When did you start your current serious effort to recover? Have you relapsed since then? What was your longest clean streak?

    This is my first reboot, but 40 years of suppressed memories and denials that have come to the fore, whatever may happen next, I will never again be the man I had become. Not that I am confident I won't relapse, there are constant urges and temptations, but my mindset has changed, and if nothing else there will always be the awareness that I never had before.

    I know I have plenty more to read and learn, but you have no idea how glad I am to be here, it may just have saved my life.
     
  14. I'm happy this thread has helped. I know first hand how this issue can be overwhelming. I want to say first and foremost, that your highest priority should be recovery. I find it disturbing that your actions have led to suicidal thoughts, and I seriously hope that you have backed far enough away from that edge where it's no longer an issue. What I will say is this, I still believe there are actions which are beyond earthly redemption. What I do not believe is that there are actions which can never be overcome, habits that can't be broken, or patterns that can't be disrupted. I read in your other posts how you've acted out, and all of those things can be overcome regardless of the consequences you may have to experience. Anyone and everyone can recover regardless of their situation, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences we will have to face. This was the intent behind my statement of earthly redemption. I have done things that I know my wife would never forgive me for. Perhaps I'm wrong, but even if I were, the knowledge of my actions would be devastating and cause irreversible damage to her and others. Although this can contribute to the discussion of disclosure, it cannot be applied to the issue of recovery. There are no actions that one cannot recover from.

    Work on your recovery. Take whatever steps you need to take to disrupt your patterns. Plan and prepare for the triggers which cause you to act out and PMO. Most importantly, plan for your response to setbacks. Don't allow setbacks to completely derail you, but rather allow them to educate you and propel you forward instead of pushing you back. According to your counter, you're 4 days away from achieving a 40 day milestone. That doesn't mean you're finished after 40 days, or 90 days, or even a year. It just means you push forward to your next milestone, and along the way reap the benefits that will come from eliminating this evil from your life.
     
  15. Marsbar

    Marsbar Fapstronaut

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    Had a big downer yesterday and my mind started playing games with me, telling me that it's normal to PMO and I should just do it in moderation. The moment passed, but it was difficult. It made me realise however that if I don't start dealing with why I did it then I'm abstaining, not recovering. So until I have come to grips with the underlying issues (not necessarily solving the issues immediately, and I might need professional help with it), and until I am confident about my intentions, I am not telling anything to anyone. Maybe it's a commitment issue, I don't know.
     
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  16. Uncertaingirlfriend

    Uncertaingirlfriend Fapstronaut

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    Coming from a girlfriend who found out on my own, I agree with this. If you care about the relationship you must open up to your partner about it, it feels much much worse to find out by finding your P.
     
  17. WifeInTheDark

    WifeInTheDark Fapstronaut

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    I want to say that I "liked" your post because this is an important realization. Obstaining and recovering are NOT the same thing. I'm proud of you for coming to this conclusion on your own. There are a lot of people who struggle to stop pmo and they reboot and reboot and reboot because they aren't addressing the cause of their issues, just the effect.

    For most people with this addiction, the pmo is a response to unhappiness, uneasiness, discomfort, loneliness, depression, hopelessness, and a rainbow of other negative emotions and feelings. To truly rid yourself of this addiction, you need to dig out the root cause(s).

    On a side note, if you are guessing that your unwillingness to confess is a "commitment issue", then I would hazard a guess that you've hit the nail on the head. If you don't truly love and respect the person you are with, than you will not feel moved to confess. You'd rather have the control in the relationship. If you confess, you relinquish part of the control, by letting the other person decide for themselves whether their relationship with you, an addict, is something they want.

    Real Love wants what is best for the other person, despite the cost to oneself. Choosing to actively Put yourself first shows the true value of your relationship. You are prioritizing yourself and your personal comfort over the other person and their happiness.

    Why are you with them, again?
     
  18. Marsbar

    Marsbar Fapstronaut

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    If you don't truly love and respect the person you are with, than you will not feel moved to confess. You'd rather have the control in the relationship.

    @WifeInTheDark, you have made a very interesting point here. What is my level of commitment actually? Years of PMO shattered my self esteem, childhood experiences damaged my trust in women, and from articles I have recently read written by ex-porn stars, I may even have a fear of women. The one time I let myself "fall in love", it turned into one of the most humiliating experiences of my life. I was / am very immature emotionally I think. If I'm honest with myself though, I probably chose my wife because a) she loved me, b) she was a strong woman who could take control of running the home, and c) she had the values and morals to be a good mother, which she is. How selfish is that? And I repay the kindness by being a shit, philandering husband who battles to even contribute financially. (Not beating myself up, that's just what it is). I'm not a good husband because I know "I'm a bad person"

    As a recovering addict I now see how pathetically needy I have been. It's almost like I am yearning for the attention I never received as a child, but at the same time believing I don't deserve it. I have often thought that my wife doesn't deserve me, and the right thing for me to do is let her move on (she is only 42, but I met her at 25 and have taken the best years of her life), but I'm confused, maybe I can't love her because I don't love myself? But things may yet turn around on the new path I'm traveling.
     
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  19. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    Just a quick clarification. To say that you are "a bad person" is shame talking. And shame keeps us bound to this addiction. It pushes us to isolate. I would encourage you to stop and analyze the inner messages in your head. For me they used to be "You are a failure, a screw up, a pervert, you're not good enough, you never will be, you are unlovable and worthless." You may need to make a distinction that you have done some bad things but that doesn't make you a bad person at your core. That's the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt says "I did bad things." Shame says "I am bad." Feelings of guilt can drive our transformation and can be good and healthy. Feelings of shame keep us bound to the lie that we aren't worthy of love and respect and are never healthy. I think you are right though, that in order to love other people we first have to learn to love ourselves. And we can't love ourselves if we are filled with shame. At least for me, I couldn't. For me, learning that distinction and working at practicing self-compassion was life changing.
     
  20. McMomo

    McMomo New Fapstronaut

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    Been lurking for a little while, reading this thread prompted a question I would like to pose to you guys. And also to say thanks for sharing all this. I've never been grateful for how all the relationships I started while under PMO addiction crashed and burned. The fact that I'm single and fighting this somehow now seems like a tremendous blessing.

    Point aside, I was wondering what you think the addict should do if they suspect their SO might try to sabotage the attempt to break the addiction. This is something I more or less experienced in one of those relationships I mentioned. At the time I had no support group of any kind and had no idea what I was up against in breaking away from PMO. Somehow, I keyed into the idea that I couldn't keep a relationship going if I hung onto that addiction so I told her about it.

    Surprisingly, she tried to talk me out of stopping. Ultimately supported me in the effort, but she offered ideas to my brain that made it more difficult to resist. (Like questioning the safety of what I was doing where withdrawal symptoms were concerned. Again, I had no idea about this website at the time so I didn't know what to believe.) That relationship fell apart for other reasons, but it also significantly contributed to trust issues I have with respect to this topic. I feel like have to keep it from people or they may make it harder.

    Knowing what I do now, I suspect she was also an addict based on information she gave me during that conversation. I had no real way of knowing that at the time since that was a distance relationship. But I do often wonder if I did the right thing by bringing it up at all.
     
    Meshuga likes this.

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