[thread deleted by mistake] An informed word on unwanted SSA

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by krabbra, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    After roaming this forum I've seen alot of people here struggeling with the thought that they "might be gay." Let me tell you something that needs to be known. And I'm speaking from a lot of reasearch and experience.

    SSA (same sex attraction) is not a sexual problem, it's a gender identity problem.
    SSA in men is a masculine inferiority issue. This is because masculinity, unlike femininity, is an achivement. When a child is born they automaticly identify with the mother because they've basicly shared bodies for >a year. If the child is a boy he'll need to detach himself from the mother and start identifying with the father during the gender identity forming phase (around 2-3 years old) to become a man. This requires support from both the mother, the father and the culture (think about all the ancient cultures that has had religious rituals for transitioning into manhood or tests of manhood).
    This identification can become disrupted for several reasons as for example the mother beeing overly attached and overprotective of the boy or the father beeing hostile, cold or just perceived as weak.

    What does this have to do with sexual attraction? Sex is by nature complimentary. You are going to be attracted to what you find mysterious. If you are a man identifying with other men and feeling like a man, you are going to find women mysterious. If you are a man not feeling like a man but rather feeling inferior to other men and finding them mysterious, you are going to be attracted to men. This is the reason you'll hear people say "I was born gay" - because they never transitioned from the identification with the mother to the father and thus males were the mysterious ones all their life.

    These gender identity issues can also pop up later in life (as was the case with myself) due to different traumas such as a feelings of inferiority, body shaming etc. Pornography is a huge risk factor here.

    SSA is a way to "erotisize" what you admire in other men. It's a way to try to compensate for what you find lacking in yourself.
    SSA is also not the same thing as "gay". Gay is a sociopolitical identity: embracing and identifying with your SSA. One can experiece SSA without beeing a gay person.
    ______________________________________________

    Now something about myself. I started experiencing SSA at the age of 17 and it took me 2 years to understand and accept what it was. I never was and never will be comfortable with the idea of a gay-lifestyle. During all those years of unwanted SSA I had to reject several women who approached me because I simply was not attracted to them. Today I am 25 years old and I finally lost my virginity to a woman last week.
    My attraction to women is slowly comming back, and my attraction to men is slowly diminishing, because I'm working hard on all the things I found inferior in myself.

    I hope this helps you understand the nature of these issues!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  2. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Fapstronaut

    great, informative post not just for people with SSA but any sort of unwanted fantasy or sexual urge that just 'doesn't seem right'
    Fantasy - like dreaming - can be largely symbolic and the brain's way of trying to communicate an unfulfilled need by sexual means.

    We can see this in a lot of ritual in cultures throughout history.
    As moderns we have brushed it off as superstition, or a relic of the past but it turns out we're the dummies -our brains, minds and souls need these things..when they don't have them we start to seek other behavior to fulfill it - and that's what every advertiser, marketer, drug dealer, vice pusher instinctively knows.
     
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  3. MonkMode [1Cor7:31]

    MonkMode [1Cor7:31] Fapstronaut

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    Very cool analysis, can you link some resources or book titles to where you got this info.

    This reminds me of once I was talking to my roommate's twin brother, who kind of an odd dude, pretty feminine, and I thought he was gay, but in the entire time he lived with us, he never talked about dating guys, or brought any guy friends around. And once we were talking about how some historians now think Abraham Lincoln was gay, and he said something I had never thought of before:
    "'Being gay' as a phenomenon is a 20th Century creation," he said, "it's an identity we have created. Sure, same-sex activity happened throughout history, but it wasn't a distinct category. Sometimes the kings/warlords would have both male and female concubines that were obligated to have sex with them...but they weren't a 'gay man' like we think of today."

    Masculinity as an achievement. Never thought of that before. What are some ways to research these threads further.

    Also this my roommate (this dude's twin brother) had a girlfriend and everything.
     
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  4. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your comment!
    The best resource I can give you is Joseph Nicolosi’s ”Shame and Attachment Loss: The practical work of reparative theraphy” (2009) aswell as ”A parents guide to preventing homosexuality” (2017).

    You might also want to listen to this:


    Please keep in mind that this research is very controversial. Sence It’s conclutions are based on empirical premisses, it is not enough for you to just deny it if you happen to dislike it. You’d have to see to the premisses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  5. MonkMode [1Cor7:31]

    MonkMode [1Cor7:31] Fapstronaut

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    Cool, I will check it out, and not jump to any conclusions until fully researched.

    Thank you for sharing.
     
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  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Fapstronaut

    this site is for teenager males but it gives some good overviews - it's also important to get out of a lot of the common misconceptions that are accepted as dogma - your fantasies=you (anyone who has escalated with porn knows this isn't true),
    https://boysunderattack.com/gay-fantasy.html
     
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  7. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    Thank you sooo much for postning this. This rhymes with my post.
    Quoting from "Other factors":

    "In some cases strong, recurring same-sex fantasies can indicate a deeper social or sexual need. For example, loneliness and lack of identity can cause an erotic reaction to thoughts of other men. If we are not satisfied with who we are, how we present ourselves, how we look, our degree of masculinity, or even the appearance of our genitals, it is very possible that we can develop same-sex erotic reactions.

    Problems can occur when there is a lack of male friends. There's a reason why we normally have platonic male friends: They help us develop and maintain our identity. If they aren't there, a craving can develop. Everyone needs a different amount of this type of friendship and a different level of acceptance from it, [...]".
     
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  8. rediscovery7

    rediscovery7 Fapstronaut

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    Man, thank you so much for this post. Would you be so kind and reply to my post please. I would really appreciate it.

    In short, I fully tick the description you provided above... Only I am 29 and started masturbating to gay porn and having SSA from the age of 14. Unexpectedly deeply fell in love with an older girl at the age of 17. It was 3 months of a very intimate and romantic relationship, alas without sex, as I was too anxious about being sexually inexperienced at the time (unlike her) so I was scared to initiate it, she left me and it broke my heart. I spent the next years in a gay porn/webcam trap and I remain a virgin to this day... A female friend got drunk with me one night and tried to have sex with me, but I was so drunk and not in the mood that I couldn't get it up which made me very embarrassed.

    At the same time, throughout these years I have developed very close and strong male friendships which made me feel much more like 'one of the guys' in comparison to my teenage years.

    I have been off porn and masturbation for 68 days and my eyes began to uncontrollably follow girls when I am outside. I notice how attractive and beautiful they are - something I've never experienced before (maybe only in primary school when I had romantic crushes on girls before puberty). This gives me hope and drive to keep on going, because deep inside I am confident that gay is not something that I truly am.

    My issue at the moment is that while going through a nofap flatline I am compulsively anxious (to the point of depression) that I will never be able to have an erection with a girl... What I really crave is an intimate relationship with a woman, but the thought of failing it at sex drives me mad as well.

    Could you share some tips on
    1) how you improved your masculine self?
    2) how did your attraction to women developed/what did you feel?
    3) losing you virginity to a girl/overcoming the anxiety

    Many thanks! Hearing success stories is the best thing for my depression right now.

    P.S. if for any reason you feel that replying privately is a better option here, please do so!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  9. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut

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    I wondered where you were getting all that stuff from in you OP. Now I see reference to this guy, it all makes sense. :(

    The Pseudo-science of Sexual Orientation Conversion Therapy

    The term "reparative therapy" … inaccurately implies "broken-ness" as the distinctive feature of homosexuality and bisexuality. … Since mainstream mental health organizations have rejected this position, the more accurate term for therapeutic efforts to change homosexual orientation is sexual orientation conversion therapy, or simply, conversion therapy. … Theorists such as Nicolosi and Socarides maintain that homosexuals suffer from an arrest of normal development … [but their theories] have never been empirically validated. … Reviews show that no study claiming success for conversion therapy meets the research standards that would support such a claim. … Conversion therapy is not just an individual mental health issue but has implications for society. This discredited and ineffective psychological treatment harms people and reinforces the notion that homosexuality is bad. In this regard, it is not a compassionate effort to help homosexuals in pain, but a means of exploiting unhappy people and of reinforcing social hostility to homosexuality. Herein lies the real "reparative therapy:" helping refugees of conversion therapy reconstruct their sense of identity and rediscover their capacity to love, as well as repairing a society still affected by the myth that lesbian, gay, and bisexual people are mentally ill. Reparative efforts are best directed toward a broken social context, not the individual who has been victimized by it. [Extract from http://drdoughaldeman.com/doc/Pseudo-Science.pdf]
     
  10. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    Do you realise that your link is published by ”The policy journal of the institute for Gay and Lesbian strategic studies”?

    Calling something pseudo-science is an easy way to dismiss and discredit findings you dislike. You know what really is pseudo-science? Every kind of Gender and LGBTQ-studies and it’s activist dogmas.

    If you listen to the speech I've linked you'll realise that Nicolosis "theory" has develped out of empirical research and that's why you must take it seriously.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  11. Dr. Mario

    Dr. Mario Fapstronaut

    This is just a values judgment. Science categorically cannot make values judgments, because values cannot be empirically tested. There is no way to scientifically measure the amount of "good molecules" in a position or idea. And any "science" that claims to find something "good" or "evil" is just propaganda masquerading as science--aka, psuedoscience.

    Whether or not a certain sexuality is "broken" is going to come down to how you define what the purpose of human sexuality even is. And that's not something science can do!
    If the purpose of sex is just pleasure, then homosexuality is fine.
    If the purpose of sex is procreation, then homosexuality is very obviously broken.
    Either way, science is wholly incapable of determining anything here. Science can never answer the "why", only the "how".
     
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  12. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut

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    Well it can be both. :rolleyes: With the modern use of surrogacy with the gay guys' sperm they can still engage in procreation. ;)
     
  13. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut

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    Of course I do, it says so at the top of the page, lol. :p

    I am not going to engage in a protracted conversation with you on this thread. But I felt that someone should posit a different point of view. Even when that guy was alive, his programmes were made illegal in several places because of the harm they caused.
     
  14. Or maybe men can just reclaim their masculinity with virtue and not live a lie behind the thin veil of "science."
     
  15. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for reaching out, man.

    1) Not assuming anything about you, but it seem to be common for SSA-men to have somewhat of a vain and/or narcissitic personality. So i began with the easy stuff: fixing my appearence - dress and body. Study mens fashion and get in shape. By achiving this your attraction to it (in other men) will decrease. It's important to note that it's not all about looks, looks is just a good start. It's about the overall feel of self: "Do I feel competent? Do I feel confident? Do I feel independent? [insert typical alpha-masculin traits].
    Men sort themselves into social hierarchies based on competence. Who's the most charismatic, who's the strongest, who's the most powerful, who has the most money etc.? All these things equals status. Evolutionary speaking It's not very surprising that status is what women look for firsthand in men - the man with the highest status gets most women (and women are great at determining status from just looking at us).

    2) The attraction to women will come automaticly as you start feeling more manly and better about yourself. You don't even have to worry about it - As i said in my OP: sex is complimentary. Do what you need to feel better about yourself, getting away from porn is a must.
    Having been an SSA-man for many years I began beeing attracted to somewhat enhanced feminine traits like nice curves and symetrical body features (love me some firm boobs), women in dresses, beautiful eyes and make-up, submissiveness (women acctually want to submit to men by nature, and men want them to submit to us) etc. I would probably be concidered picky about what I want but so be it - I'm just so glad I'm into them at all.
    I also wanna say, please don't focus on your SSA going away, focus on your attraction to women comming back as you deal with these things.

    3) My girl approached me while I had just begun my self-improvement journey. So I told her all about all my issues and findings, and I asked if it was something she was willing to deal with, and luckily it was. At this time I saw that she was very beautiful and that I'd be an idiot to miss out on an opportunity to date her but I wasn't sure at that time if it was gonna work to be honest. It took many months before we had any sex what so ever.
    First off I would become more and more aroused by kissing her (especially in public for some reason, probably from the idea of beeing seen as a straigh man in public). A few months later I'd let her touch my D, and shortly after that she gave me oral sex, something that makes me feel very desireable and that I've watched alot of in P. When we finally was gonna have vaginal sex I failed to keep my erection several times. Having been an SSA-man I was now into the female body but was terrified of the vagina. Soooo I had to explain carefully why I would be rock-hard in her mouth but losing my erection as soon as i was gonna go inside her. After a period of absitinence from PMO I finally managed, and I managed to finish inside her aswell. Sence then my head asociate it with sexual pleasure and knows I'm able to do it so there's no problems what so ever anymore.
    I cannot begin to describe how important it is that you trust her. Don't look for a one-night-girl to take your virginity, look for a partner. YOU WILL MANAGE IF you talk to her and trust her.

    It is all about rewireing your brain; convincing yourself that you truly are into this.
    Please feel free to PM me if you wanna talk more.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  16. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut

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  17. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    Sure, and they where made illegal because people believe in the LGBTQ-lies and not because they are pseudo-scientific nor because they don't work, It is true however that some people who went unwillingly to reparative therapy experienced alot of emotional harm.

    Anyway, this thread is not about Nicolosi, It's about unwanted SSA and the psychology behind it. If somebody want to post a different perspective they are welcome, aslong as they are not based on lgbtq-dogmas. Also thank you for the opportunity to respond to this common criticism.
     
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  18. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut

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    That is your opinion man. And how can you brand an entire community of people as liars! That is just shocking IMHO! :eek:
    You cannot dictate to anyone else what they post!

    It is your opinion that what I have said is based on LGBTQ dogmas. How about the dogmas of the Catholic Church!?
     
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  19. krabbra

    krabbra Fapstronaut

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    The lgbtq-activism nurtures itself in the ideas that people are born gay and therefore is unchangeable. That's just not true and there's alot of evidence to believe the contrary. Yet these beliefs have strong roots in a large part of the western world and it is concidered deeply offensive to question them, therefore it is appropriate to call it dogma. There's also alot of people like me out there, if you look for them, who discovered that their SSA had it's basis in certain identity issues.
     
  20. rediscovery7

    rediscovery7 Fapstronaut

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    Man, thanks so much for replying and being so open about your experience.

    While growing up I was so ashamed of my body. I started getting hairy legs and chest very early on and was afraid to change at my PE classes in front of other guys for that reason... always felt I was too fat, ugly etc... Recently, I've started exercising and challenging myself to do physical activities, something I've always avoided. I asked a friend of mine to teach me some parkour, and was so excited when I managed to do one of the jumping tricks. I told him 'I'm usually too lame for stuff like that' and he said 'what do you mean? you're obviously very strong.' This really made me think that I've been placing a wrong image of inferior self all this time.

    I also notice the female features. It is not the kind of 'admitting the aesthetic beauty' thing, but I straight away focus on boobs, bum, hip/waist curve. I get the 'sexy' thing. I think what my anxiety comes from, is that I don't feel the sensation in my penis. However, again, I am at that stage of nofap, when for a couple of days my penis is shrunk and is barely responsive to touch... They call it 'flatlining' on here. I really hope it goes away soon...

    It sounds like you were blessed with that girl... Opening up to someone like that takes so much courage, but also it is great that you were met with understanding. I hope that because I've never acted out on my same-sex attractions (which, now that I have quit the porn, I find odd), my mind has not been yet been conditioned to associate real sex with anything and I hope that that is a good thing.

    Many thanks again.
     
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