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There is hope.

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by amriser, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm 38, married for 16 years to a wonderful woman and we have 3 children (13,11,and 4). I'm a recovering alcoholic with 8 months of sobriety. I attend AA meetings and I have an AA sponsor. I have a successful career and we are stable financially. I am an expert at compartmentalization and I am an addict.

    I have been working at recovery for almost 2 years now. I came to recovery because I was caught. I was caught many times drinking after promising never to drink again. Deep down I thought I could control the drinking. I thought that I was not an alcoholic because I went to work, never had DUI or legal issues, etc. Plus I drank less than anyone I knew at work and they weren't alcoholics, right? I was also caught using porn. Leaving browser windows open on iPad, and hidden sex toys found. I promised to stop looking and I thought I could control PMO if my sex life improved. I was wrong.

    In April 2014 my wife found beer and porn hidden in the garage attic while I was passed out after drinking. I started seeing a counselor and went to a church affiliated 12 step program. I admitted my porn and alcohol "problems" to the group. I achieved more than 6 months porn free but still MO. I strung together many days and weeks alcohol free during the same time period. In the fall of 2014 I got drunk at home and soon after I was back into PMO 2-3 times per week. I managed to not drink most of the time and became pretty good with the timing of my drinking so my wife would not find out. PMO was ongoing.

    Then in February of 2015 my wife suddenly changed her attitude toward me. What a surprise after all those years? She became very cold, would not communicate and all intimacy stopped. She would not go to counseling. The drinking escalated and became daily through May of 2015 when she called my parents and my dad intervened. I didn't drink for 2 weeks and then stayed drunk for almost 2 weeks. All the while I was going to my weekly church recovery meeting and pretending to be OK. On June 15, 2015 I came clean with the recovery group and went to my first AA meeting the next day. I got a sponsor and he required that I call him every day. I have managed not to drink even through some very difficult temptations on business trips. I don't want to drink anymore and I am working on my 4th step inventory, currently.

    From February to August of 2015 there was no sex with my wife. Then, sex resumed in September and part of October but stopped again. Its been more than 3 months now. I am incredibly frustrated by that, but at the same time I understand. There is no connection. My wife and I went to couples counseling a few times in November and then she went to a session on her own. She discussed her private session with me. She said she would not be going back to the counselor. The counselor told her she was playing the victim role and that she needed to understand that my addiction did not mean that I don't love her. My wife said that was no help to her and the counselor was taking my side. When I asked about why the sex stopped back in October, my wife says that she decided she wasn't going to force herself anymore. Throughout the marriage I have had a stronger sex drive than her and many times I felt like she could take it or leave it. This is no justification for looking at porn, just a fact. I masturbated prior to marriage and carried a lot of shame about that into the marriage. I thought a married sex life would end the desire to masturbate. Wrong! Then, along came high speed internet and I became an addict.

    I'm addicted to PMO and MO, just like I am powerless over alcohol I am powerless over PMO. Even when I went porn free for 6 months I still MO. I'm currently on Day 6 hard mode. over the past few months I have had many 6-12 day streaks and then I relapse. I have been using the sexless marriage as a justification. Telling myself that PMO is just an outlet for my sex drive and at least it is not sex with another person. No more of that. I usually have pretty easy time for the first few weeks and then I start experiencing what seem to be withdrawal symptoms. So, I know what is coming soon.

    I have read several journals on here and the one that is the most helpful came from @TheWife. That has really helped me to empathize to what my wife is feeling. Betrayal, no trust, and disgusted.

    At this point there is very little communication. My wife has become very rude and disrespectful to me most of the time. Often she just mumbles if I ask her a question and would prefer if I just did not talk to her at all. She has isolated herself from my extended family and won't respond to texts or phone calls from them. I don't know what to do other than focus on staying sober from Alcohol and establish sobriety over PMO. She does not has no reason to trust me. I have relapsed over an over again.

    I'm incredibly ashamed of all of this failure and the cycle of addiction. I have had thoughts that my wife and kids would be better off if I left the house because of my repeated relapse. Then, I think how incredibly selfish that would be. I love my children and my wife and they need me in their life. To make this big mess of my marriage and destroy my wife emotionally and then leave would be the ultimate act of selfishness. I must recover completely for me and for them.

    I'm feeling pretty helpless about the relationship right now. It is difficult to keep plowing through with such a bitter attitude from my wife. I deserve it, but I wish she would show some mercy. I feel like such a failure around her and my mood goes down. I don't even know how to behave around her any more. Should I mourn with her? Try to be positive? I wish I knew what would help.

    In any case my wife told me last week that she wanted to go on vacation with the kids to the caribbean and that I was invited to go. I told her that I wasn't sure about that since things were so strained between us and I wasn't sure I could have a good time. She told me there were no guarantees, but I should take a risk.

    I booked the vacation yesterday. It was tough to do. I am very frugal and did not want to spend that much money. I know I have to approach this trip with no expectations and in the least I will be able to spend quality time with my children and make some lasting memories with them. It does give us both something to look forward to and a common goal. My goal is to leave for that trip with a 60+ day PMO free streak. I know that reaching that goal will only happen 1 day at a time and there are some tough days coming up.

    I hope that I did not ramble too much and my story makes sense.

    Thanks to all who contribute here. I know many men and women here have experiences that may help me navigate through this and I would appreciate any advice.
     
  2. TheWife

    TheWife Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Congratulations on 8 months of sobriety! That is fantastic.

    It is great that you have come here and are serious about making positive changes to your life. This is a major step and shows you would like to do something about your issues.

    For me, the most hurtful thing with my husband was the lies and deceit. Even more heartbreaking than the infidelity. That is a tough one to swallow, and it is no wonder that your wife is having a hard time considering you have lied to her and broken promises to her on a few occasions. Trust gets broken very easily and take an excruciatingly long time to rebuild. When you don't have trust, you need enormous amounts of honesty, transparency and good communication. Here is a quote that I read in the book by Barbara Steffen about trust, think it is a good guide on how to behave to rebuild trust.

    "A trustworthy person bears certain markers: they are consistent (predictable), they take responsibility for their own actions and they admit when they make mistakes rather than blame others. They do what they say they are going to do and their behaviors match their words. Trust is something that takes only seconds to shatter but takes what feels like an eternity to rebuild."

    It sounds like your wife is struggling and is trying to protect herself from being hurt again. Have you tried to talk to her about what she needs? Perhaps suggesting that she go to a different counselor (one that understand porn addiction) or even if she would like to join NoFap herself, if she wants support? (Not sure if you have discussed with her that you have joined or if you would want her to see what you write).

    It is very positive that your wife has asked you to go on vacation together as a family. That is huge and should be very encouraging for you. See it as the positive it is, and don't dwell on the potential negatives. Use this as a goal to work towards. You get to spend quality time with your wife and children - in an amazing place no less. Don't focus on the costs and if it will be awkward with your wife, focus on how great it will be and how you can show her how much you have improved yourself.

    For me, i wanted to see and feel the changes in my husband before I could decide if I wanted to continue in my relationship with him. He had looked me in the eyes and lied before, so his words could not be counted on. I wanted to see positive changes in his attitude, his outlook, his involvement in our family and proof that he was addressing his addiction head on. You also have to realise that as you make these changes, you will notice them in yourself straight away, but it will take much longer for your wife to see the improvement. Frustrating, I know.

    The best thing you can do is focus on recovery. Get PMO free. And then once you feel stable enough, try your hardest to make it up to your wife. Do things for her, help her in the house, look after the kids, show her how much of an amazing husband you can be. Don't pressure her for sex. Porn addiction kills intimacy, and if you work on getting that back then the sex will follow. Work on connecting with her through talking openly and honestly, through hugs and small touches, make her laugh, looking her in the eye and telling her what you love about her. It is the little things.

    One other thing is to give her a real apology. None of the crappy "sorry I hurt you" rubbish. A true apology, where you take responsibility for your actions. Then, give her a chance to tell you how she feels and really listen, don't jump into analyzing, excuses and solutions. Just listen. This will be hard to hear. You may want to wait till further down the track to approach this one as it is tough. We haven't got to this one yet....but we will.

    Don't be discouraged. Channel your energy. Fight for your family with everything you have got. She didn't kick you out, she invited you on vacation, there is something there. She obviously loves you enormously to still be with you. Fight! Fight for your family! Fight for the woman you love! Fight for your kids! Be the best parent and role model you can for your children! Use that as your motivation. Everytime you want to fap, think of seeing your kids every second weekend. Everytime you want to watch porn, imagine never having sex with the woman you love ever again. Never smelling her hair or waking up next to her again. You can do this!

    Just remember that we are all here, only a post away. If you ever get down or need some support, NoFap is here.

    Be strong!
     
    Torn, TheManIWantToBe, Yesodi and 7 others like this.
  3. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    You are not the first, nor will you the last to be on the brink. Good advice has already been given... get clean and sober first. Nothing will improve until that happens first. As you know, healing will not come overnight. Change takes time, sometimes a LONG time. First you have to heal and get better. As your body and mind returns to 'normal' then relationships can be healed next. As you get better, the old you will change into a newer, better version of yourself. That future YOU might be the person that can reconcile with your wife. Sounds like your wife doesn't want much to do with the current YOU. Unfortunately all this takes time. Take heart that she hasn't kicked you out or started talking about separating or divorce. Have hope that things CAN get better.

    I'm 31 days PMO free and my road has been long and torturous. I too thought my PMO problem would go away after I got married. 18 years later I'm finally getting a handle on this problem. I'm getting better and the relationship with my wife has improved dramatically. Not everyone's story turns out this way this quickly. Sounds like you have a plan and know what you need to fix. Be determined to get a little better every day. Getting better without the help of your wife is going to make it extra hard, but think about how surprised she will be when she realizes how hard you've been working. At some point she may even change her mind and join you. But she's hurt and doesn't want to get hurt anymore. Help and reconciliation may be way down the road... but don't get discouraged. At some point an opportunity is going to present itself... be ready to show her how much better of a person you are. Be someone worthy of respect and trust. Own your actions, accept responsibility, and be determined to be a better person. Being here is another good life-line to help you get better.
     
    Torn, MaKa and WifeInTheDark like this.
  4. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    Thanks @TheWife and @i_wanna_get_better1. Great input that I will put into practice. I'm really getting the cart in front of the horse. I see so much improvement with my alcoholism which has always been a huge issue with my wife. But, I'm still young in the process and I haven't done any of the hard work required to recover from PMO. I see that what I have really been hoping for is a get out of jail free card. Very selfish behavior that I will work on changing. I have to be accountable for the damage I have caused and do the recovery work.

    The mental image of seeing my kids every other weekend when tempted to fap or use porn is a powerful one, so thanks for that. I'll check in here ever week or so, but it may be more appropriate to start a journal in my age appropriate group. Relationship cannot move forward until I make progress with pmo addiction.
     
  5. I once watched a video where they said that addicted people should be treated with love and not with offense. Everyone should have the feeling of being loved or least love themselves. I can't even help you a bit regarding alcohol. When I was younger I got wasted too often. Now I just don't like doing it anymore. Which is sad, because my closest circle of friends is just focusing on getting drunk every week. The process started some time ago, when here and there I just didn't want to go with them. Maybe I lose contact with some of my closest friends, but I get the control over what I really desire. I am going to be very direct with you, it is going to be tough. But be honest to yourself. Do you want to PMO? You really wanna get drunk? Stimulating your brain all the time. Your body probably feels neglected.
     
    amriser likes this.
  6. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    So this morning I decided to put on a counter and arbitrarily set a 60 day goal. It turns out that day sixty will be the day we leave for our family trip to Mexico.

    Right now I'm really trying to be patient with my wife. I try to talk to her and she is so cold. She has no patience for me to even have a brief discussion. I feel like it makes her sick just to look at me. It's a sad situation I find myself in. I'm waking up and she seems completely numb to me. It really hurts.

    It's not the time to start feeling sorry for myself. I must focus on her needs and my recovery. At the moment I'm having no urges at all. Maybe a flatline. I know what is coming soon enough. It happened last time I got about 14 days in. Sex dreams, fantasies, p flashbacks, etc. It was awful, but I'll have pass through that to heal.
     
  7. Ikindaknew

    Ikindaknew Fapstronaut

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    Dude,

    Congrats for all the effort.
    Addicted persons have "addictive personalities". So an addict might become addicted to something else.
    I'm addicted to porn/PMO and I have to watch myself, cause I like drinking also. I never had to hide my alcohol consumption ,as I'm "functional" lol :D.

    Seriously, your wife is sick of all that stuff, understood. She probably lost a little bit of faith at every relapse. And when they are pissed, well, NO SEX FOR YOU!
    1342044615041_1119041.png

    I know you love your family, and now, you have to climb that mountain and reach the top. It's the goal of your life. Hopefully she will eventually re-learn to appreciate you.

    Keep up the good work!
    And I hope you didn't take an "all-included" reservation at the resort, cause every time I went on a trip overseas on the beach, I got seriously shit-faced. Good thing is, I wasn't traveling with family...
     
  8. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for the reply @Ikindaknew. Stayed the course today. No urges again which is great. I watched half of your brain on porn this morning and will finish it tonight. Overall a good day.
     
    WifeInTheDark likes this.
  9. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    I've stayed clean and I have noticed some changes in my emotional state over the past few days. Yesterday I was very irritable and I had a pretty short fuse. I got to the point of rage like anger in the morning. I have not experienced that many times in my life. It set the tone for an ugly day. I'm sure this is part of the healing process and is probably normal. journaling here helps me process the emotions and prepare to deal with what may come next.

    I have been reflecting a lot over the past 10 years of my life. I have many regrets and many of those years seem like a blur. My children have done a lot of growing up while I was numbed out on porn and booze. My body was there, but I wasn't emotionally available the way they needed me to be. How sad that I wasted those years that we can never get back. I mourn for the pain I've caused my wife, but what can I do now but focus on recovery? Hopefully one day I can make a proper amends to her.

    There is a lot of work to be done, but my desire to change is stronger than my desire to stay the same.

    I have several opportunities today to connect with my children and I'm going to make the most of those.
     
  10. Serial1

    Serial1 Fapstronaut

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    Many thanks for your sharing. Keep up the good work.

    Lost it completely with "the wife" post #2 above. Tears flowing. Thanks, but it feels so sad and hard. (All of our struggles and my situation)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  11. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    @Serial1 thanks for visiting my journal. I have read and re-read the post from @TheWife. i have found it to be very helpful to my situation. So insightful and spot on to what my wife has been telling me. Hearing it from another person and being able to go back and review it again helps me understand what my wife is feeling.

    I'm starting to see my wife as a person that is really hurting and that helps me focus on taking the proper steps to recover. I was in denial about how much pmo impacted me. It was secret and I rationalized that as long as I kept it hidden no one was being harmed. I rationalized that it provided me with sexual release and didn't take anything away from my wife. What a lie. I'm learning now how to love her and not expecting sex or anything else in return.

    My wife is slowly thawing out. She is talking to me a bit more. We are having a few laughs. Yesterday she texted me a funny picture of our 4 year old. She invited my extended family to our home for the big game tonight. Such small things, but they give me hope. Slow progress is being made and I am thankful.

    Some big events coming up this month. I have a 5 day business trip to Miami that will test my sobriety in both addictions. I am committed to recovery and I am viewing this as an opportunity to hit a milestone. the day I return my wife and I will go to a large nearby city for a 2 night hotel stay. She was awarded the weekend trip for her performance at work and she invited me to go with her.

    In regards to pmo, urges have had a slight uptick, but I have been able to suppress them quickly. I think about the marriage, kids, and even the increased motivation and focus I have in just 13 days of abstinence. I have become very careful about Internet usage. Ads that pop up can quickly lead to urges and if allowed to grow its full blown temptation. I was visiting a sport fishing discussion board and a Victoria's secret ad popped up. my reaction was strange. I felt sort of a rush, kinda like my heart fluttering. That was quickly followed by a feeling of anxiety and I closed the ad. It happened in less than 2 seconds and there was no extreme temptation etc. afterward. This lets me know why people install blockers, modify router settings, or get off internet alltogether. The reward circuit is powerful.

    When I finally got sober from alcohol, I had made a decision that I was a person that cannot drink. It is off limits and I now view alcohol as poison to me. After 30 days the urges to drink alcohol went away. I'm now viewing p and m the same way. They are both poison to me and the most dangerous threat to everything I love and desire in my life.

    I believe I am beginning to make some real progress so I'm going to change the title of my post.

    Thanks for the support. I won't drink or pmo/mo today. Long term recovery is achieved one day at a time.
     
    Torn and WifeInTheDark like this.
  12. Serial1

    Serial1 Fapstronaut

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    Yes, there IS hope!

    Keep up the good fight. I am away from my wife now and nervous about the discussion we need to have when I return. Actually I'm scared shitless of revealing everything. We've been through a lot and I trust we can get through this...
     
    WifeInTheDark and amriser like this.
  13. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    We are happy to hear progress is being made. It's interesting to see some of the tools that others have suggested being used successfully by others. 'Think about the consequences before committing the act' is one of my mantras. Also good to see you identify the rush and resisting it. I was miserable the first few weeks of recovery as waves and waves of rushes would hit me throughout the day. I too would feel my heart pound as the dopamine rushed through my body. And there were times I wanted to die than endure the withdrawal symptoms. And it's awesome to see that you didn't linger in those old thoughts.

    Remember, this Detox period is one of the hardest phases we go through... it's where our bodies fight us the hardest and where our minds fool us into thinking we will die without our poison. Sounds like you got some big tests coming up early in your recovery. Do WHATEVER you have to stay clean and sober. Nothing is worse than starting from ZERO. Imagine giving your wife a good report on how you did. Imagine reporting to us how you survived. Keep working and fighting.
     
    WifeInTheDark and amriser like this.
  14. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    Still fighting. Urges are mostly nonexistent, and I'm not complaining. Focus and motivation are increasing. Can't wait to notice more improvements.

    Facebook has a lot of triggers. I'm keeping a low profile there. Also get emails from menshealth lots of sex stories and pics that are triggering. I had become totally desensitized to our sex crazed culture.

    I'm fighting for my marriage. I want to become a man deserving of my wife. She is incredible. Most of the time she is pretty cold still and I don't always know how to act around her. One day at a time.
     
    TheWife and WifeInTheDark like this.
  15. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    When I was researching ways to break my porn addiction I read some articles on some men's health websites and the ads right on the sidebar were FULL of triggers!!!! The internet doesn't make it easy!
     
    WifeInTheDark likes this.
  16. My husband (@Garnadaan ) mentioned the same thing - he'd become desensitized to our sex - crazed cure too. As his reboot has progressed he mentions how sensitive/keenly aware he is to suggestive ads, suggestive video game cover art, etc. He finds it frustrating more than anything else.
     
  17. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    Still going. Urges coming more often now along with sex dreams and some insomnia. I set up an appointment with my counselor. I need some support in real life. I have read through most of the book The Most Personal Addiction and I am finding it very helpful.
     
  18. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    Glad to hear you're still fighting. Watching football and having family over could have created a huge stress and an opportunity to relapse. Good for you for pushing through the urges. Hopefully the counselor can help give you some insights. In the past you've been to therapists before... have they been able to help in the past? What kinds of issues did they uncover? Were they addressed or do you feel that they've been left unresolved?

    Your last post also left me wondering... what kind of support system do you have? Sounds like you're fighting this all on your own and that can be a lonely feeling. Have you been replacing your old addictions with new, healthier ones? Is there anything these days that is bringing you happiness? Too much misery is going to lead to depression which leads to self-medicating with porn or alcohol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  19. amriser

    amriser Fapstronaut

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    @i_wanna_get_better1 I started seeing this counselor in April of 2014. I visited him 10 times or so when I was porn free for 6 months. I stopped going to see him and I relapsed to porn and alcohol. The main issue uncovered was childhood sexual abuse that I experienced. Prior to that I had only told my wife about that early in our relationship. I don't feel as if I have fully dealt with the abuse, but I was able to tell my father about it in June of 2015, And that was a start.

    My support system is my AA sponsor and another 12 step men's group that I attend. I told my AA sponsor about porn addiction about a month ago. He never asks about it and has not offered any support. Maybe he doesn't know how to help or maybe he has a problem with porn himself? I was not able to make the men's group this week due to activities for my kids. But to answer your question, I have not replaced the addictions. I don't have much personal time because of mine and my wife's work schedules and kids activities in the evening. Weekends right now consist of hockey games for my 13 year old and trying to maintain the house, wash clothes, etc. my wife and I share those responsibilities and it is draining. My personal therapist and the marriage therapist were telling me to go to more recovery meetings. That made me really angry because that means my life only revolves around work, kids, and recovery meetings. There is no time for anything else. The activities in my life have not changed, I'm just doing them without alcohol and now without PmO.

    I think I am going through a mild depression.
     
    WifeInTheDark likes this.
  20. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    I admire that you have come this far. You have had a lot of obstacles to overcome. Under optimal circumstances this is a hard process but you have an even more challenging circumstance. You deserve some recognition for what you have done so far.

    I noticed on your counter that you are on Day 18, I wanted to share with you what I wrote in my journal on that day... "Almost 3 weeks into this thing and the stress is still unbearable. It's such a house of cards trying to stay balanced. 'Just don't do it' is such a simplistic way of viewing this problem, but that is what it ultimately comes down to... finding ways to simply not do it."

    I share this with you to let you know you are not alone in feeling depressed on Day 18. On one hand it's good to be busy spending time with family. I only have 2 kids, but having 3 kids must make your house crazy busy! On the other hand, if you have ZERO time for yourself then you are eventually going to develop feelings of anger and resentment. And then you're either going to want to make yourself feel better, or want to wash away the pain, or act out in an unhealthy way. Even though recovery is your top priority you can't think about it ALL the time. Life is more than simply going through the motions of the day. At some point there needs to be some enjoyment or some pleasure.

    Can you combine some of the activities? Can you find something that you ALL can do together that you ALSO enjoy? Can you do something special for your wife that will make her feel better? Can you do a little exercise like going on a walk or taking the dog for a walk, or going to the park with your kids... you need some of those happy chemicals exercise brings. Every housewife knows they have to pamper themselves once in a while or they'll go insane (am I right ladies?) I'm not saying to be completely selfish or to neglect any of your responsibilities. In the past I would 'reward' myself with a little PMO (sometimes a lot), but now I have to find other ways to 'reward' myself... I'm finding replacements. Find YOUR replacement, even if it's a small thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
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