The DECEIT of 'casual' / pre-marital sex

Thanks for offering an interesting discussion. Here's my opinion.

It seems to me that sex is one of the most powerful reinforcers of behavior. The flood of pleasure chemicals it produces is almost unreal. It can be used to reinforce a bond. The question is - what are we bonding ourselves to? Mutual trust? Success in life? Happiness?

Are we bonding ourselves to the internet - to magazines - to anonymous women's underwear (as in a fetish) - to a revolving door of sex partners?

If we're finding ourselves chronically anxious, poorly socialized, unfocused, then maybe we have been somehow using sex to reinforce those unwanted qualities.

Are we really committed, long-term, to what we're bonding to?

Are we bonding ourselves to a behavior because we unconsciously don't believe we have better options?

To some people, institutional and/or religious marriage might be the embodiment of those long-term commitments.

To other people, the commitment I describe might take any number of forms other than marriage in the conventional sense.

What attracted me to Nofap versus SLAA or more religiously-themed recovery groups was a focus on the "super powers" which are the positives. Muscle strength might improve. Brain lucidity can develop. Self-confidence with women may flourish. I love dwelling in these possibilities. A lot of people have been stigmatized enough, so they retreat to the private quarters of the internet to fap out their squashed and twisted desires because they don't have enough concrete, provable positives to consider. I don't think porn is inherently evil. It can teach us a lot about ourselves and how the mind and sex drive works. I just think that if your life chronically doesn't seem to be working, it could have to do with a thwarting of one of the very few basic drives you could be unconsciously affecting - like sex. If your relationship with sex is compulsive instead of fully present and intentional, it could be reinforcing a lot of self-sabotage and you could do well to put some distance between yourself and that activity. Doing so can give you the right perspective, time and energy to turn things around be true to your more inspired sense of self.

 

I don’t see any issue with having sex as long as those two people love each other and have been together for a good amount of time getting to know each other better, because to me waiting for “that one” or the whole virginity aspect is codswallop.

If you meet someone just to have sex or within a week of dating or something along those lines then I have issues with that, but as long as they’re devoted to each other, want to spend time, learn more about them, and are actually in love, then that’s fine to me. Marriage shouldn’t dictate anything like that in a persons life.

 

I kind of agree. I used to think "I'll wait for that special someone..." I'm still a virgin but Ive been having urges to start dating again or hook up with someone lately. I had plenty of times to have sex but I never did because of looking for that "special someone." I read a story about a woman who didn't have sex until marriage and I dont remember much of the story but she basically said she didnt like the sex she was having with her partner and she wished she never listened to that " no sex before marraige." If two people accept to having safe sex together I don't think that's a bad thing (as long either of them arent in any sort of relationship). My mother never had sex with anyone before my father (same with my father , I think) and theyre still married to this day. I'm 24. I also don't think that having sex alot (or little to none) is the downfall of a relation ship that would be FIDELITY.

 

It sounds like you are considering any premarital sex to be casual and lacking love, to be just using the other. There is definitely such a thing as casual sex, but there are loving and committed relationships without marriage involved.

There is something to be said about the casual hookup culture nowadays leading to the destruction of marriage. Fewer people marrying, people marrying later, more infidelity, more divorce. The more people someone sleeps with, the harder it is to build and maintain a strong bond to one person.

 

PLUS...

Communism killed over 90 000 000 people in the 20th century, with various leaders (or pawns) such has Hitler, Stalin, Zedong, Guevara.
"Two steps forward, one step backward."​

Here are some things Communism apparently managed to set up, with their purpose:
-public school / endoctrination; teach people to be nothing but slaves to corporations (employees)
-"free love" / divorce encouraged; kick dads out of families, leaving families very dysfunctional and harmful especially for children (weakening future generation) *see also 'feminism'
-"sexual liberation" / debauchery promotted; STDs (Big Pharma interests), short-term reproductive mode of the population (financial, emotional, social disaster) *see also 'abortion' and 'gay marriage' and 'pornography'
-propaganda / brainwashing; hammer the subconscious of people to keep them powerless and helpless in the same scam paradigm, using fear, stupidity, melodrama and lust (TV, radio, press, movies, videogames, books)
-taxation & welfare; make people surrender their will of freedom for a false security, enslaving them to the (Communist) government *see also 'corruption'
-United Nations & gun-control movement; disarm the people to make it easily submitted to the Communist dictatorship *see also 'new world order' and 'agenda 21'

Could it be that it's just a behavioural dysfunction promotted by a neo-communist "elite" through psychological operations (medias, public school) in order to control the masses and pull the strings easily on society ?


Don't you think it 'might' be part of an agenda to keep you neutral and docile to feed a scam paradigm for some greedy interests of some people ?

[/QUOTE]

I know this is more of a side point from your post, but I found it fascinating.
It's interesting that you're bringing Communism into the wide discussion of how the heck did so many people find themselves following their lustful instincts and purposely destroying themselves, considering that Communism spread mostly to a certain specific parts of the world. It seems to me that according to what you're saying, Communism had a much larger impact on our lives than most people believe. I've always thought that Communism came, did a lot of bad things in the world, and went. But according to you, Communism managed to sink its teeth into the worldwide sub-conscience, and now we're facing the consequences, which are - and in a sense, Communism is doing a victory dance - loss of many morals that - in some circles - have been around for generations. We're looking at a massively wide-spread phenomenon of people all over doing what they want, without considering the consequences, which in turn lead to the breaking up of societies.
Now, in some ways this might be good. Some things out there really need to be thrown away. But it seems that in most cases, we're looking at good stuff being thrown out - because people just live in the lustful "now".
It seems to me that all over the world, governments and societies are turning certain anarchic practices - into the actual law, simply because this phenomenon has become so wide-spread. In turn, our lives become more chaotic. we're looking for strength, we're trying to become better, but in some senses, the world is losing itself. Sounds depressing, I guess, but if we raise more awareness of this, then it may help strengthen our world once again.

 

Ahhh yes, the classic incel fantasy of the "pure" virgin girl, followed by a heap of conspiracy theorist propaganda about the evils of "The Left", backed up by a few people nobody's ever heard of spouting opinions. Now I'm not necessarily saying the OP in an incel, but from what I've seen online, most of the people who post these rants fall into that category. Besides, how can anyone trust the "numbers" in that graph anyway? Are people truly honest about their numbers of sexual partners when asked? I'm very skeptical.

You know, a few years ago I actually met one of these 26 year old virgins. Well, she was 24 when I met her, but she's now well into her 30s and still has her V-card intact. She wasn't unattractive. In fact, in my porn addicted days I spent a lot of time trying to find a porn actress more attractive than this lady, and failed dismally. She was deeply religious (most Sundays she's go to church multiple times throughout the day). Pretty much everything these incel types fantasise about. The catch? She didn't want to do it with me either (or anyone else as it turned out). Last I heard of her, she was in her mid-30s, still a virgin and had just bought herself a kitten. Generally there are two reasons someone retains their virginity into their 20s and beyond (and this applies equally to males and females). Either they just aren't at all attractive to the opposite gender, or they just have no interest in sex - period. That means if you married someone like this, you could maybe expect sex when she wants to conceive the baby, but apart from that, pretty much not at all. Now there's nothing wrong with having no interest in sex, in fact, I think sex is just about the most overrated human experience in the world (more on that later), but a lot of people think of it as important in having a happy relationship.

The real question is how does one define a "successful" marriage? Is it one in which both partners are happy? Or merely one in which people feel they "need" to stay together for the sake of "the marriage". When I'm out and about, I frequently see older couples having serious arguments about trivial shit, abusing each other to hell. Do I really want a marriage like that? No way in the world. I'd rather she divorced me and went to live with Chad instead. Now he can deal with her shit. It's for this reason that I personally think marriage itself is outdated. You see, traditional marriage was never based on love or intimacy. It was all about property rights and succession. Generally a man wanted someone to sire his children and keep the family farm going, and a woman wanted a guy who was a good farmer or had lots of sheep. Romantic love was considered something akin to a disease until about 100 years ago. Many scholars actually claim that Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet not to celebrate romantic love, but it satirise it -- to show just how batshit insane it really was!

You know, last year here in Australia we had a vote on whether or not to legalise same sex marriage. My only thought at the time was "I hope the gay people realise what they're getting themselves into". Had I been gay, I would have voted against it. The last thing I want is to have lawyers, therapists and the State having a say in my relationship. If my partner and I can make it work, let us do it. If not, we just both go our separate ways and find something else to do. Personally, I'd rather they made it illegal for us straight people to get married, and let the gay people get married if it's so important to them.

Here's what it all comes back to. People are going to do what they want to do - regardless of what you or I might think about it. People who want to have sex at an early age will do so. Those who don't want to do it will abstain. The world has changed since 1850, whether the Trad Cons want to admit it or not. It will continue to change too. Is it a change for the better? Well, that's a matter of individual opinion. Having gotten a bit older since meeting my "incel fantasy", I've had time to mature a little and give it some thought. About the last thing in the world I want is an intimate relationship with a virgin. I'd prefer someone with a little experience who actually has some idea about what she wants from life and from a relationship. Then I'll know if she chooses a relationship with me, then that's where she wants to be. Personally, I welcome the fact that women have more freedom today. It means I also have more freedom than I would have back in the day.

To be honest, I think all of us get far too excited about sex in this society. Western Anglo countries have basically a 12 year old boy's attitude to sex. On the one hand, we glorify it and talk about it like it's some kind of magical, wonderful life-changing experience. Yet we scream about other people having sex when we think they "shouldn't". Incredibly, we then wonder why we get addicted to porn. Here's the truth about sex (from someone who's actually done it) -- it's really not that special. I'd say around 50% of my sexual encounters were no more satisfying (for me) that staying at home doing housework. The other 50% were fun in the moment, but didn't leave me with anything special afterward (fortunately I was smart enough to protect myself from STDs).

I recently took a vacation where I met an attractive woman 20 years younger than me (I'm in my early 40s). I have no idea whether she was a virgin, and nor do I care. The pussy-chasing frat boys would probably think we should have just gone back to a room somewhere and had sex. Instead, we explored some old WWII forts on some cliffs above the ocean, we watched the sunset from the same cliffs, we had dinner by the beach, we went to a wildlife park together before I had to leave for my flight home. In the end we hugged and promised to keep in touch. We had much more fun that we would have back in the room having sex, I'm sure of that.

 

I don't know if you've ever been to the Museum of London at all? I had the pleasure of visiting that some years ago, and it's very interesting to learn about a city with London's history. One of the themes that came up again and again is just how often people of the past claimed that basically "the modern world is going to hell in a hand basket and the old world was so much better". People have been saying that for over a thousand years. It wasn't true then, and I see no reason it should be true today.

 

This is weird. I swear most of the posts on this thread have been deleted. Anyway @EXPONENTIALLY threads on sex are rather hilarious. I voted no even though I'm still a virgin. I would be very interested in reading @EXPONENTIALLY crazy sex blog. Lol!

 

I'd thought that it's impossible to write a text where the least crazy claim would be that Hitler was a communist. Kudos to @EXPONENTIALLY for providing a perfect counterexample.

@Porn Free Wanderer I think I'll write a script that will automatically like everything you post.

 

I appreciate Porn Free Wanderer’s posts as well.

——-

I used to be deeply involved in Christianity and held dogmatic views about sex outside of marriage. I used to be very judgemental too. But I’ve left church and no longer think sex should be restricted to marriage. As long as it’s consensual, I say go for it.

It’s no one’s business what two consenting individuals do with each other sexually.

 

I think waiting until marriage is the best option. I feel a society based on this principle will have:

• Less abortions
• Less STDs
• Less broken homes

Humanity wins more than it loses when this method is followed.

I don't believe the idea of what two consenting adults do is simply a personal matter. What they do is both personal and public. As members of a society what they do, what all of us do or don't do, impacts the communities we live in. Our porn addiction has impacted our communities because its negatively impacted ourselves.

 

To an extent, but what I do with my partner in bed or behind closed doors is of no business to others, especially the ones who don't want children.

 

Where's the option for "NO, regrettably "?

 

My opinion that I wrote is about sex. What two consenting people do sexually is their business.

The government, the church, the family, the friends, the general public should stay out of people’s sex lives.

 

Not really. For one thing, modern marriage is hardly a "secure" environment. 50% of them end in divorce, and countless others result in one or both partners staying married and putting up with abuse (and FWIW, I consider constant nagging and criticism to be abuse, just as much as physical violence).

The fact is, the reason I never pursued sex with this woman was because I was only with her for about 18 hours or so, and that wasn't long enough to to really know her that well. Had I known her for longer, I may well have given it a shot, and marriage would have had nothing to do with it.

 

I'm sorry, I think it's purely a personal matter. As long as the participants are consenting adults, I don't think it's anybody's business. People do lots of things that impact on us all as a society, and not just related to sex either. Should I tell you not to drive your car because I don't own one and I don't want you to pollute the air that I breathe? Should I tell you what food to eat because I don't want to have to subsidise your health care costs in the future? Should I tell you what hobbies to pursue or not for the same reasons? What people forget is that throughout human history, there have always been people who wanted to do different things, and for the most part I think that's great, because it would be a very boring place if we were all the same.

You know, we hear all this talk about "is it good for society?" Why doesn't anybody talk about whether Society is really good for the people it's supposed to be protecting? Frankly, if Society requires me to make my intimate behaviour with another consenting adult public, then Society can go fuck itself for all I care.