Taking a deeper look at sexual transmutation

Discussion in 'Abstinence, Retention, and Sexual Transmutation' started by interpaul, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. interpaul

    interpaul Fapstronaut

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    As a preface to the following discussion I just want to say I am struggling in a sexless marriage and am not yet willing to seek a divorce. As such, sexual transmutation has become a focus for me both to avoid PMO and also to find a new way to focus this sexual energy.

    As I'm sure many of you have experienced, and reported, the main reason we are here is this sexual energy is compelling. Ignoring it doesn't work. I discovered taoist inner cultivation practices from members of this group. After nearly 6 months of practicing these techniques (mostly the microcosmic orbit meditation) I recently succeeded in being able to channel the energies and become "multiorgasmic", that is redirecting sexual energy upward into the head and experiencing non ejaculatory orgasms. At first this seemed like the holy grail for me. No PM just pleasure while still maintaining the energy inside. This new development made me wonder what the real goal is with transmutation. I certainly have channeled the energy and extra time that comes from not doing PMO into exercise, meditation, yoga, art and being more present in my daily work. The true sexual transmutation results in persistent energy which I am finding both life affirming and challenging in that it is forcing me to challenge long held views on what the long term goals of this practice are. Have you asked yourself where you want your NoFap to take you once you achieve your goal of a month, 3 months, etc.? There does seem to be an undercurrent of self imposed suffering in this nofap practice with a lot of sadness and personal frustration with "setbacks". I am looking forward to the day I don't have a "count" in my head for how long it's been since... After a few days of this intense circulating pleasure inside I had a release last night. No sexual thoughts just a spontaneous emission. I find my body after 1-3 weeks releases this pent up energy no matter how I try to transmute it. I initially felt bad as if I'd failed on my path but now I am trying to really understand if this is a true failure or just my body finding its equilibrium. Since this type of spontaneous release has happened every 10-20 days for several months, and I've avoided the chaser effect, the energy seems to remain mostly intact inside me. For those of you who have practiced semen retention and have made it for months I'm curious how you handle this energy. Do you just have a reduction in the energy over time or have you come to other ways to transmute it beyond exercise, meditation etc.?
     
  2. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    I, too, have asked the "what now" after a reboot. My condition is VERY similar to yours with the exception that I have not made it as far as you have. My goal is the non-ejaculatory dry orgasm. And be done with ejaculation forever.

    As for the transmuting, I struggle with that too. User Gagate seems to have done well in this regard. You may check out some of his posts.

    I have a question for you: on the road to multi-dry orgasms, how long do you think a guy must retain in order to be able to follow along that path? Some say that unless you retain for at least two months, you have NO shot at it. Can you comment on that please?

    Thanks
     
  3. interpaul

    interpaul Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your suggestion, I will check out Gagate's posts. As to your question. My first multiorgasmic experience happened spontaneously about three weeks into nofap. Since that time I've had a number of random episodes usually after ~ 2weeks. The last episodes, which were different in that they were more under my conscious will (after creating deep stillness to allow the energy to pass thru me) occurred after 10 days. I've never been able to last more than 3 weeks without a spontaneous emission(i.e. an ejaculation brought on by cuddling with my wife or with intense meditative states without any physical touching). I haven't masturbated in a long time but my semen retention practices seem to have cumulative benefit as I recall one episode occurring two days after a spontaneous emission. One word of caution. I think most of us ended up on nofap due to some compulsive behaviors. I can see this practice as potentially being the most addictive of them all as you get your cake and can eat it too, so to speak. 2 days after I had 3 back to back multiorgasmic experiences (one with over 20 orgasms) I had an ejaculation the next time as I think the build up of the energy in my body was too great. I still think this is far superior to PMO as it is a purely energy experience and if I can find a better way to balance the energy I am hopeful many of the benefits I've heard about will bare fruit. Good luck to you. Let me know when you succeed and if you have any learnings on the way
     
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  4. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Your cautionary note is appreciated. However, I am relieved to see your comment that the "multi dry" is much better than traditional PMO. I think we all have to decide what "healed" looks like. It sure looks like you have. I think for me, retaining enough semen/good stuff that I can do dry multiples is a great sign of healing. I sure can't do it now. Too depleted.

    Thanks!
     
  5. interpaul

    interpaul Fapstronaut

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    Things all started coming together for me after a few months of trial and error Taoist practices. It is really hard to find a teacher to show you the way. Almost all the things I read about ended up not working for me in the end. By being open to what I discovered in my bodies response to various meditations I slowly developed more inner awareness. However this ends up going I feel healthier in knowing I have this well of energy within me. You will certainly face all of your demons on this journey if you are really committed to self discovery. The biggest breakthru in this practice came when I realized complete surrender was necessary, i.e. I couldn't force this to happen. Creating all the proper conditions was critical though.
     
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  6. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you Interpaul....This is terrific advice. I really think one has to truly recharge (by not masturbating to orgasm) to help make this journey possible. I intend to take your words to heart.
     
  7. basketball21

    basketball21 Fapstronaut

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    From my personal experience and research and my up and down roller coaster... I don't know how long you been on the journey of Nofap, you did say a several months ...........
    ..(same with me,not trying to sound like a expert because I'm not)..... But from YouTube and google and this website...the first 1-2 years you can have withdraws from PMO and even dopamine headaches


    (Again I'm not a expert I'm still trying to improve this journey as well for myself. Just sharing my thoughts )
     
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  8. interpaul

    interpaul Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your thoughts Not sure what you mean by dopamine headaches. My experience is more of pleasurable feelings internally. I was hugging my wife this morning and had deep pleasure just in that experience. The "problem" is this energy without fap, just builds and builds till it leakes out one way or another. I was reaching out to the group to find a way to transmute this energy in such a way that I can retain the benefits of nofap after the 3 week mark.
     
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  9. xtremity

    xtremity Fapstronaut

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    I am very curious about your transmutation based on Taoist. Could you point out some resources about it to me please?
     
  10. RightEffort

    RightEffort Fapstronaut

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    Hey man good to read your post.

    I have been reading the book Cultivating male sexual energy by mantak chia since 2009 and have been attempting to do the exercise such as 'testical breathing' and lock down exercise and the million dollar point - etc, and I have had ejaculation-less orgasms.

    However, it has never been very consistent for me.

    I know Londonreal just interviewed Mantak chia who is a toaist master (here is the link )


    The main point I want to communicate is that in my experience the transmutation is all about personal discipline. The discipline of food, sleep, thought control and developing in wisdom.

    I find for example if i limit my food to 2 small meals mostly vegeterian/vegan and fast at night - then sleep by 9:30 and waking up at 4 am I eliminate much of the wet dreams.

    usually, those dreams occurs during the early morning times 4-6 am.

    Also the type of entertainment I watch, the movies, how I look at other women, it all plays a role.

    This is a whole science by it self, and you can look up the word "Bramacharia" which is the celebicy discipline for indian saints - and in my research there are alot of good info there,

    There are yoga postures that helps in channeling the energy, then it is developing high concentration to be able to focus on the chi forces and to move them in the body, etc.

    I just want to also share another perspective - your sexless marriage which does't sound very good, is actually a blessing - because according to mantak chia most men waste their precious seeds in mindless sex and ejaculation leaving only enough energy to read the news and complain about why they suck, but you are actively developing your capacity as a human being to reach higher states of awareness.
     
  11. interpaul

    interpaul Fapstronaut

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    xtremity, Mantak Chia has written a number of books on the subject. I think the best is Taoist secrets of cultivating love and male sexual energy or something like that. Having said that, it's complicated. I have been working on these practices and have spent a great deal of wasted time with many of his practices that I don't think are helpful such as the "million dollar point" Most of my learnings have come from trial and error. I do believe the "microcosmic orbit meditation" which he mentions there and goes into more details in the book "awaken healing energy" is very powerful. As I've cautioned before channelling this energy, this sexual energy can eliminate masturbation and pornography use, but it has resulted in me struggling to determine if these orgasms, generated in my mind are a healthy alternative. His practices for dual cultivation with a partner are the ultimate practice but my wife isn't open to this at present. My caution in advising you going down this path is I don't feel balanced and always happy. The semen retention practices and non ejaculatory orgasms are very powerful for sure but I feel something is missing and I worry my tendency for excess, learned from PMO, may play out in this other way. I am meeting with an experienced Taoist teacher tomorrow to get some guidance. If you do explore this, you may want to seek out some guidance in your area as I think it can be a trap for many who find themselves where we are. Good luck. Let me know if I can answer any other questions for you.
     
  12. interpaul

    interpaul Fapstronaut

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    Thanks. I have read some on Bramacharia and have seen the clips on LondonReal. Mantak seems like an odd guy on some of these videos but I respect his teachings despite many of them I don't find helpful. I agree with you about the other things in our lives we need to find balance. You may be right about having some time to go deeper into these practices given my wife's distance at present, but I would love to do the dual cultivation with her as I believe self cultivation has significant limitations. We are ultimately social creatures and I worry too much time spent in my head may not yield as much fruit. I am not drawn to celibacy as a practice, more forced into it at present as I'm not going to cheat on my wife, PMO is a dead end path for me and that doesn't leave much else. Accidentally discovering non ejaculatory full body orgasms was definitely a surprise for me and is forcing me to really dig into my motivations and be honest with myself on what is healthy. In the last few days I've been able to just bring my attention to a place in my head in which I feel the energy currents moving when I do the microcosmic orbit. By training my focus on that area I can bring on a non ejaculatory orgasm. Who wouldn't want that type of control without any obvious downside? After reading so much on line about neurochemistry I don't know if this will be just another "addiction" for me to have to unlearn. I was hoping someone on this forum would have been down the path I've been down and have some wisdom to share regarding these latest developments. If nothing else, it's an interesting journey.
     
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  13. RightEffort

    RightEffort Fapstronaut

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    I understand that you may not be into celibacy I was just mentioning since your in this circumstance using the tools to transmute the energy may be helpful to enable you to cope with the circumstance.

    On the other hand, maybe this perspective can be helpful. I would say that nothing happens accidentally. Life has put you in this relationship with this person to help you evolve.

    You're also given enough wisdom and decency for choosing not to cheat on her, so maybe something good will arise from this - either you will learn self-mastery and how you can find contentment and acceptance or you may hack the sexual transmutation thing and find total fulfillment :)
     
    namaycush, Davidphd1866 and interpaul like this.

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