Surprising Assumptions

My question is why are you LOOKING for things to edge to? Sobriety is all or nothing. If you are seeking out, whether it is P or P-subs, to intentionally M or edge to, then you are not seeking sobriety. Of course sobriety comes with bumps in the roads with resets and possible relapses, but what you described is not that. What you described is flat out not putting forth all your effort to abstain from everything except sex with your wife. Anything else shows you are not willing to let it all go and fully commit to your wife.

It would be a good idea for you and your wife to have a serious sit down and come to an agreement on what total sobriety means to both of you. Make a contract and set up hard boundaries with hard consequences.

 

Thank you very much for the clarification. It helps very much.

 

Do you have issues with flashbacks as well?

What are you doing to actively not look at psubs?

(my husband has these problems as well, and your reset guidelines are similar to ours)

 

Since edging even for a few minutes is part of your addiction and contributes to your ED (in most cases a lot more than PMO) I think it was reasonable for her to believe that you had stopped without having to ask. And are you really sure this was a misunderstanding or were you purposely keeping it from her and later trying to fall back on a half assed, “we did not specifically discuss this” argument that allowed you to still hold onto your addiction just a bit? Come on now do you have to write up a contract that defines what acts constitutes a relapse and what you should tell your wife? Touching yourself at all in a sexual manner is a relapse. You need to be overly honest with your partner if this has any chance of succeeding and if you were being overly honest with her this is how it would have gone. “Hey honey I wanted to let you know that I’m still struggling with edging. I did it today and yesterday etc.”. It was not a misunderstanding it was you not being completely open and honest and telling her everything and I mean everything. My ex PMO did this a lot. Well I did not know it included that, etc. Just tell her everything. Don’t rely on her to ask, be upfront.

 

In reading your post I can see that you are not quite ready to let the addiction go. And I give you a lot of credit for being honest with your wife about that that is really difficult.

I also agree that what works for one couple may not work for others but where I think we disagree is that you believe you are the one that sets these boundaries not your wife. Your wife is the one that was lied to and so if you have any chance of ever being trusted you have to follow her lead. She may want to know what type of porn you look at and if she asks and you lie or say “my therapist said I should not disclose this.” Then good luck on her trusting you again. Whatever she needs to trust you again is what you do.

And you do have to prompt her on some things for example on edging. Most women have no clue what it is so doubtful they would ask. So while you may not have been purposely keeping this from her, if you had been open and honest about everything you would not be here. For example saying what a good Day means for you. A good day means if I still edge I’m okay. Why did you not say that outright? I’m a lawyer I love ambiguity why? Because it allows me to argue my way out of it. Be clear be very clear. No ambiguity.

 

You say the two have set your own boundaries. Do you both agree on them? If you don't agree on them then they aren't boundaries, they are obstacles that need to be worked out before the two of you can effectively move forward together. Until you can reach boundaries that you agree on, there will be a struggle and progress will be slow to none. Similarly, in order to have full trust, if she wants full disclosure, full honesty must be given. It doesn't matter if YOU think it would be helpful or not. This is not YOUR dog and pony show to run anymore. You have been controlling the situation from the beginning and it's time to let go. You don't have the right to decide for her if she needs to know. This is not just about YOU getting healthy. This is also about helping her heal. If she needs to know details to heal, you give her details to heal, no matter how uncomfortable or embarrassing it may be for you. Your controlling and selfish addiction has caused pain, hurt and distrust. It's time to man up and give her what she needs to help her heal. When all of these things start to be fulfilled, only then can your recovery together as a couple truly begin.

 

I appreciate your post. My husband isn’t looking at other things and we are working on our intamacy daily. One day at a time. I can see how this hurt your wife even if it wasn’t your intention. Mine tells me something new each week that I have to take time to process and then I can come back to discuss. We were intimate and it became and issue after. He had the chaser effects. He almost relapsed but didn’t. I say keep spending time with your wife and walk away from everything else that is making you want that edging feeling but her. Maybe a hard reboot all together? Good luck! You can do it. Hugs to your wife.

 

I am going to reiterate what @EyesWideOpen said and add that you are still putting your feelings above your wives and I’m not so sure you are seeing that. I’m pushing you on this not to upset you but because I do think you want to heal your relationship and you are overlooking behavior on your part that almost certainly means your wife won’t be able to forgive you.
Your wife asked you what type of stuff you looked at and you refused to answer. Look at the reasons why. First YOU can’t bear the thought of her hearing it, whether she needs to hear it or not it’s your feelings that matter not hers and it would not be best for her to hear and of course adding my therapist says so. How is it that YOU get to decide what’s best for your wife not her? Is she a child? Does she need you to make her decisions? No. Your therapist is there to give you advice on what’s best for you not your wife.

I know your recovery is hard but you still need to focus on trust within your wife. Do you know why people gossip ? Because they don’t know the truth so they are left to make something up. She’s almost certainly running through in her mind what you watched and how bad it must be that you won’t tell her. The truth is often not as bad as the fantasy in our head. And finally she’s going to find this out in fact she’s probably already looking for ways to. I need you to assume she will and then what? Is there another misunderstanding about what she did or did not know? Do you say you were only doing what’s best for her? No because this time she’s clearly articulated to you that she wants to know.

Put her first and rethink this whole scenario. SOs are always waiting for the other shoe to drop like what else is there? How much more do I not know? The reason to answer her questions is to alleviate that anxiety and prevent future disclosures that are going to hurt more and make you look like a liar.

 

I think your assessment is spot on as far as the issues here. She asks and his response is “I’m not going to tell you because that’s what’s best for us.” That type of response is condescending. She’s saying I need this to recover and he’s saying no you don’t I know what’s best for you.

One of the biggest mistakes that pmo addicts or any addict makes is thinking she won’t find out. They have covered their tracks, deleted all the evidence but 99% of the time there is evidence left behind and it’s only a matter of time until she discovers it. An SO who is asking for information and not being answered is a better detective than addicts understand. If he does not give her that answer she will find it.

Which leads me to why openness is so important. The addict either has to live in denial and believe that she will never find out or live with the anxiety of whether she will find out and when or how. Did he really delete all those files etc. this prohibits the growth of intimacy and that’s what needs to be rebuilt here. You are only as sick as your secrets.

I understand this is painful for the addict but another part of recovery is dealing with pain rather than avoiding it. What he’s saying is she wants to know but my pain of telling her is more important than her pain of not knowing. That’s why I call total bs on him saying the edging was a misunderstanding. If you are totally honest misunderstandings are rare.

Addicts have been putting themselves first most of their lives. Now they need to put another person first and that’s a really uncomfortable place. When you betray someone you are no longer on equal footing.

I have read the thoughts of addicts that have been successful in rebuilding and the one thing that stands out is that they were honest to a fault and put the SOs feelings first.

 

It’s not about what you think she needs to know it’s about what she needs to know. I get that you don’t understand it you don’t have to. All you need to know is that it’s what she needs period. And remember failing to disclose is the same as lying. She asked you a question you need to answer it end of story.

I just wanted to add I’m a female SO that went though this. I just wanted to add I left my partner because of much of what you are doing now. I also tried to convince him but he refused to change.

 

@BreatheDeeply I appreciate all you have expressed in this thread so far. I relate and agree with so much of what you're feeling and going through. I intend to add my insights to all that has been said once I get the time to write it. Stay posted.

Hang in thier dude, you're a good man. The resolve is strong, but the body is weak.

 

That's because you're not understanding betrayal trauma. Most women need to know to move past the trauma the addict has caused. I'll link you some vids to educate yourself on what your wife might possibly be going through, just so you know.

Definitions of lying just so you make sure you really are being honest:

Paul Ekman writes in his book Telling Lies: Clues to deceit in the marketplace, politics,and marriage, "definition of a lie or deceit, then, one person intends to mislead another, doing so will deliberately, without prior notification of this purpose, and without having been explicitly asked to do so by the target.* There are two primary ways to lie: to conceal and to falsify. In concealing, the liar withholds some information without actually saying anything untrue. In falsifying, an addiction step is taken. Not only does the liar withhold true information, but he presents false information as if it were true. Often it is necessary to combine concealing and falsifying to pull off the deceit, but sometimes a liar can get away with just concealment." (p. 28)

He continues, "If the doctor does not tell the patient that the illness is terminal, if the husband does not mention that he spent his lunch hour at a motel with his wife's best friend, if the policeman doesn't tell the suspect that a 'bug' is recording the conversation with his lawyer, no false information has been transmitted, yet each of these examples meets my definition of lying. The targets did not ask to be misled; and the concealers acted deliberately without giving prior notification of their intent to mislead. Information was withheld wittingly, with intent, not by accident." (p. 29)

"Concealment may also be preferred because it seems less reprehensible than falsifying. It is passive, not active. Even though the target may be equally harmed, liars may feel less guilt about concealing than falsifying.* The liar can maintain the reassuring thought that the target really knows the truth but does not want to confront it." (p.29)

"A close relative of telling the truth falsely is a half concealment. The truth is told, but only partially. Understatement, or leaving out the crucial item, allows the liar to maintain the deceit while not saying anything untrue." (p.38)

"There are two major forms of lying: concealment, leaving out true information; and falsification, or presenting false information as if it were true. Other ways to lie include: misdirection, acknowledging an emotion but misidentifying what caused it; telling the truth falsely, or admitting the truth but with such exaggeration or humor the target remains uninformed or misled; half-concealment, or admitting only part of what is true, so as to deflect the target's interest in what remains concealed; and the incorrect-inference dodge, or telling the truth but in a way that implies the opposite of what is said." (p.41-42)






And I hope that you will be able to put your wife ahead of your feelings, I also agree with @GG2002 and @EyesWideOpen

 

I think all other parts of this thread have been addressed, but I just wanted to comment on this part. No, in those cases you mentioned, it wouldn't be helpful. A PA is different. It IS personal to the partner, that makes it different than heroin or alcohol, or whatever. This isn't a substance you consume. For some partners it isn't even just an addiction, it is betrayal, to some cheating, etc. which makes it different from those other types of addiction.