SOs: You are not Codependent or a CoAddict Just Because you Love a PA!

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by EyesWideOpen, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    It's called Betrayal Trauma and PTSD! The person that should have provided you a place of safety is the person that has instead provided a place to make you feel the most unsafe.



    "I can remember one well known sex addiction therapist telling me that I married my husband because there was something wrong with me. And that if there hadn't been something wrong with me, I never would have picked him in the first place...and when I told him none of that was true, he acted like he didn't believe me."

    "We call that Treatment Induced Trauma ...there's the trauma of finding out about the addiction, but then there's an additional horrible wounding and crazy-making when someone is telling you things about yourself that don't resonate with how you know yourself to be."



    "...the other piece that is important [about not labeling SOs as codependent] is that is places the responsibility for the addiction on the addict and not on the partner, which has been a huge part in how the sense of ourselves has really been dismantled by the addiction [codependent] model."
     
  2. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    Good info. I don't consider myself to be codependent. I read a couple Melody Beattie books, and they just did not resonate with me at all. I've thought hard about this; I'm confident that I'm not in denial about my own codependency.

    The one valuable piece of information that is usually given to codependents that I feel applies to me (and maybe even all SOs of PAs) is the need for boundaries. I know I'm not responsible for causing the addiction, or for any relapses that might happen. I am responsible, however, for protecting myself physically and emotionally now that I know what is going on.
     
  3. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    It's so frustrating to be told by therapists and by addicts (both active and recovering) that we, the SOs, are codependent because that is what THEY are told in their therapy. Because that is what their expert says in his books. Well guess what, Patrick Carnes may be excellent in helping addicts recover, (and I do believe he is!), but his codependent model is harmful to spouses. While it's true that he and Stephanie are now beginning to lean towards the BT model, at least on paper in a book or two, it has yet to come to any real fruition in his actual therapies. It is hard to find therapists trained under his program that are truly empathetic to the betrayal trauma/PTSD model for partners. They are out there, but they are rare. The best ones are trained APSATS but there are not a lot of them (yet). The closest one to me is 3 hours away. It's scary for SOs out there in the therapy world. The threat of trauma induced therapy is real.

    www.apsats.org
     
  4. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    Out of the Doghouse: Sex Addiction, Infidelity and Betrayed Spouses
    Robert Weiss, MSW

     
    AnonymousAnnaXOXO and Sadgirl like this.
  5. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    Not only the therapists, but I think many PAs are codependent themselves. I know my husband is (he's aware of it now). He felt overwhelmed as a boy by the demands of a personality-disordered mother, and so used M to numb out his feelings. That way, he had more capacity for taking care of her crazy emotions. He carried the M behavior into adulthood and escalated to P. If you've read Ken Adams, my husband fits that mold very well.

    It's easy for a codependent PA to project his worldview onto his spouse. They aren't exactly well-known for their empathy. If he has a therapist backing him up, why would he believe that his wife is any different than him? Especially if her "codependency" gives him a partial excuse for his bad choices.
     
  6. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Wanted to share a 3 part series I just watched, great for S.O's!

    Healing from Betrayal Trauma: Series by Jacqueline Thibodeau

    #1 What is Betrayal Trauma:


    Resources for people who have been impacted by their partner's sexual addiction and or chronic betrayal are often limited and difficult to get. It is my hope, that with this video people can gain support and understanding about this traumatic experience. You are not alone. In this video, I discuss what betrayal/ relational trauma is and the impacts that it can have on your mind, body, relationships, and community.




    #2 Safety Through Boundaries and Self Compassion:

    In this video, I discuss the importance of emotional and physical safety is explored, along with a step by step guide for boundary work and an understanding of self-compassion.



    #3 Grieving Betrayal
    In this video, I discuss the stages of grief, through a betrayal trauma lens. And how to create safety for ourselves.

    5 stages of grief:
    1. Shock and Denial
    2. Anger
    3. Bargaining
    4. Sorrow
    5. Acceptance

     
  7. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    I need to watch these videos still. But I am getting so fed up seeing all SO's labeled as codependents or coaddicts just because we are with and choose to stay with our PA's.
     
  8. Sadgirl

    Sadgirl Fapstronaut Moderator Assistant

    Rob Weiss is amazing. He has such empathy for partners and tells addicts the no hold barred truth.
     
  9. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    @AnonymousAnnaXOX has another great betrayal trauma thread, as well. The link is in my signature. If you are on your phone, turn it sideways for the landscape view to see it.
     
  10. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    Wow. The part where he admitted that the wives are not fun to work with because we act crazy and it's hard to help us...ouch. But that's OK! I actually really respect that he can acknowledge that feeling within himself. Are there any other Weiss resources you recommend, @Sadgirl?
     
  11. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    You can do a quick search on YouTube for him and there are a lot.

    But think about it. Of course we aren't fun to work with. Why would we be? Our men, the ones that promised to cherish us, to forsake all others, the ones who should have been our fortress, our place to run to, have instead been the ones to run from. They have shown us they are unsafe, torn apart our world, taught us that everything we once believed can no longer be believed, and that we are unworthy.

    And then they wonder why we act crazy, betrayed, and wounded? No, we aren't fun. We have done nothing wrong and these men come in and tell us everything about us is wrong, including our reactions to their wrongdoing.

    The only ouch to that is how PAs continually try to play the victim and blame it on us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  12. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    @EyesWideOpen, I'm feeling a bit hurt and perplexed by your last reply to me. I perceived your tone in telling me to essentially "just Google it" and also to "think about it" as quite condescending and abrasive.

    I've spent this whole thread liking your posts, and agreeing with you. Did I say something that angered you?
     
  13. AllanTheCowboy

    AllanTheCowboy Fapstronaut

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    I didn't know this was a thing - the idea of the necessity that an SO was codependent. I'm glad I didn't hear it before, because three years ago I might have believed it.

    It sheds some light on something that I wish I could go back and say to my wife. Maybe others will be helped to read it.

    When I ask you to call me out on my unacceptable speech and behaviour towards you, it's not because I think it's your responsibility. I know it's my job to treat you properly, and it's my job to know how. The thing is I also know that I apparently suck monkey balls at it. I'm not trying to say it's your job, or your responsibility. I know it's up to you if you do it or not. I'm not assuming. I'm not deflecting. I'm not shirking blame. I'm asking you: I need help; please help me.
     
  14. I'm only half way through this... and there are epiphanies I;m having and my mind has been blown... I see some new things so clearly now.... I have so much to think about. Thank you for posting this.
     
  15. Sadgirl

    Sadgirl Fapstronaut Moderator Assistant

    YES! www.sexandrelationshiphealing.com is his most current website loaded with podcasts and blog posts. His book "Out of the Doghouse" is amazing and he leads weekly sex addict meetings on zoom that are super helpful. All of his info is great!!!
     
  16. Sadgirl

    Sadgirl Fapstronaut Moderator Assistant

    @AnonymousAnnaXOXO would you mind adding that website to your resource list? :)
     
  17. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I apologize! My first sentence about the videos and then the rest of my post were two entirely different thoughts.

    I found all these videos on YouTube as I was looking for information for myself and was blown away and will continue to add more and hope others will also if they find them to be fitting. I thought it might be easier to direct you there since I'm at work right now and can't look up any more at the moment.

    The rest, I am so sorry for it sounding abrasive towards you. I did not mean it that way at all! I got wrapped up in the emotion of how many addicts and therapists treat us. Your response of "ouch" made me think you were almost apologetic for SOs being hard to work with and that made me angry that they make us feel that we should be apologizing for something that they did to us. I was not angry or upset with you at all. I was hurting for you.

    I hope that makes sense. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain my response!
     
  18. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for clarifying! It's sometimes hard on message boards to understand others clearly, especially on emotionally charged topics.
     
  19. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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  20. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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