So does @nofap oficially endorse auto-fellatio as well?

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ultrafabber, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Sir Minato

    Sir Minato Fapstronaut

    @ultrafabber

    I think this is a very complex question and it's hard to answer.
    Firstly:
    Yes, if a handjob is ok then putting him into mouth is also ok. One could list the pros and cons of that, too. It's probably not healthy for the back in the long run. But logically speaking every form of self gratification that doesn't involve others or harming of others is morally okay. Alexander doesn't explicitly state that but you are right, it is logically connected.

    The moderation part is harder to answer. We would need scientific data for it and also have to account the goals of the addict. Does he want to just get rid of a certain fetish? Does he want to be able to get hard with real women? Is he ejaculating too early? Does he only want to stop watching porn?
    Does he want the benefits from semen retention?
    Every question has to be answered accordingly, using data from studies and from self-experiments.
    Moderation is an amount which allows reach the set goals. If you are an addict, masturbation also took over a functionality, like dealing with stress, negative emotions and so on. So it would be outside of the moderated consume to fap after experiencing stress or negative emotions, since one's inability to deal with these created the addiction in the first place. Which was probably in the childhood for most of us and it is normal that we were not able to find good coping mechanisms

    If one wants to get his boner back with women, one should abstain from every masturbation that is linked to the pornography and fantasising that caused the erection problems in the first place, preferably for the rest of their life. Because the old neural pathways are still there. It's like when you know how to ride a bike. You don't forget it. It is simpler for an addict to fall back into their addiction than for someone who wasn't addicted in the first place.
    For him moderation would mean masturbating only when he is free of fantasies and not influenced by any images or nudity or fetishm perceived.

    Someone who wants the benefits from semen retention should abstain all together or release semen rarely; there seems to be no scientific data about how many releases cause what effects (at least I haven't stumbled upon any yet). But you can look at other people's experiences and try out what works for you. Since semen get absorbed by your body anyways, it might even be most beneficial to just abstain all together.

    You see, there is many ways to answer this, and I think this is why everyone is having a hard time understanding your point. You are suggesting a more in-depth guideline so addicts know what orientation they can take instead of being their own captain risking overusing the boundaries of "Moderation"
    And most people here just think that everyone is responsible himself to define what moderation is for him.
    But your point is totally valid; an addicts brain may not be capable of taking unclouded responsibility for this definition of moderation and abuse it unknowingly. So there is a need to define it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  2. Sir Minato

    Sir Minato Fapstronaut

    Well okay, I see your point.
    Keep in mind though
    It happened like this
    then
    So it was an unqualified post of PaulPaul that made ultrafabber react in a frustrated, generalising way.

    Thus, for you, the mutual respect ended already there, and I can therefor understand that it felt fair for you to be sarcastic afterwards. I missed out these points, I am sorry.
     
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  3. TimeToQuitNow

    TimeToQuitNow Fapstronaut

    You mention India a lot. Are you from there?

    I don't think most people switch from one religion to another day by day like you claim. They might switch at some point but it's usually a bigger deal than you make it sound.

    I also looked into the MGTOW thing for a little bit and didn't like it for the same reason. But I'd go a step further than you and say I still want wife and kids. If other people don't want to stop populating why should I? I want my genes to thrive :D

    I'll look into that documentary. Good luck with your NoFap journey!
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  4. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I dont think autofelatio is on anyone's mind when he masturbates and this is the awareness i'm trying to raise. It certainly wasnt on my mind before and it probably wasnt on @NoFap's as well.

    But now it is and sooner or later this needs to be addressed and resolved as autofelatio IS masturbation and most people that choose to jerk their dick to completion do not even fathom to suck their own dick to completion.
     
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  5. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    I switch from atheistic to theistic perspective from time to time. I do not want to be termed religious or atheist. I have never switched from one religion to other. We are all human, are not we? I just happened to born into Indian Hindu culture.
     
  6. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    It is not my intention to discuss morality as that is subjective. Masturbation is unhealthy for objective reasons but this topic is not even about that.

    This topic is simply about the logical disconnect people hold on masturbation-autofellatio, on @NoFap's lack of stance on it and on nofap's refusal to define moderation for what they consider healthy and even compare to eating apples. Which you also agreed it is very damaging because it opens the door for massive rationalozations on fapping.

    Last but not least, on the contradiction between the name nofap and their attitude on masturbation.
     
  7. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    Agreed... I also want to leave Porn forever
     
  8. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    But you are still making farfetched allegations in my opinion. Nofap does not support "Autofellatio" or any other weird practice.
     
  9. CookyMonster

    CookyMonster Fapstronaut

    If I could practice autofellatio I would not be on NoFap. I‘d be at Cirque du Soleil famously working as contortionist.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  10. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    @ultrafabber What is your definition of "masturbation"? It would be intersting to hear that to put things into perspective.
     
  11. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Autofelatio is as weird as masturbation, when it comes to realism, autofelatio should actually be preferred. Its only downside would be the need of extra mobility but that is besides the point, as most people that jerk off to completion, even if they could effortlessly suck their own dick to completion, would not do it.

    @CookyMonster you re not providing any argument though why they are not the same
     
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  12. CookyMonster

    CookyMonster Fapstronaut

    Sorry @ultrafabber I know. I just thought I would provide the social program to this serious discussion.
     
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  13. TheAddictedHuman

    TheAddictedHuman Fapstronaut

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    I'm trying to grasp the point the OP is trying to put across. Do me a favor and help me understand, what your trying to say by answering these questions. Would the following assumptions correctly sum up your point @ultrafabber ?

    1. The word "masturbation" neatly applies to autofellatio.
    2. The word "masturbation" neatly applies to classical hand-based masturbation.
    3. Classical hand-based masturbation is widely considered "normal", while autofellatio is considered "weird".
    4. Because both behaviors apply to the term "masturbation" though, both must be considered either equally "normal" or equally "weird".

    Is that the main point? If not, please explain what I got wrong or what I missed.
     
  14. wwtl

    wwtl Fapstronaut

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    The more interesting question would be if someone promoting "masturbation is okay in moderation" could also agree to "sexual intercourse is okay in moderation".

    I understand "sex positive" as "Have sex as often as you want with whom you want". So when there is no artificial limit on sex, why should there be one on masturbation? With what reasoning?
     
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  15. TimeToQuitNow

    TimeToQuitNow Fapstronaut

    You might not want to. It's your life to discovery what's true.

    You being born into a Hindu family doesn't mean much to be honest. People often equate religion and culture as one in the same. It isn't. Religion is a set of beliefs and rituals while culture is a set of behaviors, styles, aesthetics, foods, music ect. You could be Indian and be a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or whatever.

    I know to a lot of people religion is just something they were raised in. This always made me angry to be honest. Like "my parents are this so I am this". It's ok to have the religion of your parents but at least understand why you believe in it on a deeper level.

    I remember growing up some people would tell me they were Christian and Jewish. I asked them how this was possible and they would say one parent was Christian and the other was Jewish. Then would say they didn't believe in God. So why call yourself Christian or Jewish then.l? That's what I would tell them and they would get confused.

    I personally converted to Islam. But I grew up in a household in America that was mostly non-religious Christians. My country and family was irrelevant to my decision.

    You say you never switched from religion to religion. You just simply question the existence of God and the universe. You ponder on theism and atheism, yes? It is good to ponder and think, we need more of that in this world. And yes we are all humans, so we should always show each other respect. I don't know much about Hinduism, I always though it taught polytheism. But I'm sure it teaches some good lessons. And I think all religions will promote the beliefs of NoFap.

    Sorry if this was too long or sounds like I'm attacking you or preaching. I'm not. I'm just passionate about this subject that's all.
     
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  16. TimeToQuitNow

    TimeToQuitNow Fapstronaut

    People can get addicted to sex just as they can get addicted to masturbation. It can affect their relationship with their significant other.
     
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  17. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Thats a bit of a complicated way to put it but mostly yes.

    But its not about definitions here but about the fundamentals of the acts themselves -both being self sexual stimulation (and simulation) just with different parts of the body.
     
  18. TheAddictedHuman

    TheAddictedHuman Fapstronaut

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    Okay, I see. If we'd change the list the following way, would it be more accurate in your opinion?

    1. Autofellatio is sexual stimulation of one's own genitals.
    2. Classical hand-based masturbation is sexual stimulation of one's own genitals.
    3. Classical hand-based masturbation is widely considered "normal", while autofellatio is widely considered "weird".
    4. Because both behaviors are sexual stimulation of one's own genitals, both must be considered either equally "normal" or equally "weird".

    Is there anything else, you'd change or add? I'm just trying to follow your argumentation correctly here.
     
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  19. Homo Deus

    Homo Deus Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    My opinion is that masturbation is not good. Not once a week, not once a month, not once a year. Maybe it is okay to do it once in a lifetime, just to see how it is.

    Also, world health organizations are saying that masturbation is good, and because of that @NoFap can not say in public that they are against masturbation, because they can be processed legally for that. Bs there is not enough evidence that masturbation is bad. (There is, just listen to Gary Wilson)

    So... masturbation ruined my life. But Health organizations saying it's ok. Just remember, that they were also saying that cigarets are ok for health some 60 years ago. Also, remember those same organizations used methamphetamine as normal medicine on patients. Heroin and coke were also considered healthy.

    And I am not saying that Health organizations are bad, they are rather slow...


    I am not interested in any further discussion about this topic. I just wanted to give my opinion on this.
     
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  20. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I guess its ok
     

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