Smothered a girl with my neediness ...

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by ruggerdoug, May 26, 2019.

  1. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    A girl I thought was going to turn into at least a regular dating partner if not a girlfriend told me that though we were a "fit but not the best fit" she didn't feel like moving forward because she is a free spirit and I was smothering.

    Set aside the reality that if a girl I've talked to for over a year before going out feels like one great dinner date and a sleepover followed by about 5 texts, 3 of which she didn't answer, was feeling smothered by my choice of a nice restaurant (I don't feel comfortable in a fancy place like this) or my holding the door open for her, etc. I'm not going to fix that. So I'm not sitting here banging on the keyboard trying to rethink things as if it is all me.

    I am trying to understand how my neediness and hunger for a connection comes off as smothering. I don't think I over communicated, got into stalker mode, tried to jump ahead into serious territory before it was ready. It's been 3 years since I've been in any kind of relationship. I've been on plenty of dates, some girls more than one, but nothing that counts as a dating relationship. I've had physical contact but with PIED it has not always been enjoyable and sometimes worse.

    And so I am certain I'm putting a needy vibe off that I don't even know is there.

    Anyone else putting that needy vibe out? How'd you fix it?
     
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  2. The Dave

    The Dave Fapstronaut

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    What a women thinks, feels and says are 3 entirely different things. Dont torture yourself over her ambigious comments. They are deliberately vague on purpose. Youll drive yourself mad.

    Move on fella and chin up.
     
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  3. koolpal

    koolpal Fapstronaut

    Sounds like the Goldilocks problem.

    Apparently, there's a fine line between showing interest, and showing neediness.

    Some will think, feel, say you're smothering.
    Some will think, feel, say you're not giving them enough attention.

    Then there are girls who say "Yeah, you're a nice/awesome/wonderful guy, but I'm gonna see what else is out there, and if I can't find anyone better, I'll come back to you". They wanna have their cake and eat it too.

    You just haven't met your match yet. Just become the best version of yourself, and move on.
     
  4. wwtl

    wwtl Fapstronaut

    My needy vibe fixed itself on day 25.

    Joking aside, I met my match and this is the only thing that actually matters. Ladies who don't actually want to be with you will find the most ridiculous excuses, regardless of how you behave. Don't listen to them, don't waste your time, move on to your next date.
     
  5. The Dave

    The Dave Fapstronaut

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    Its like the non apology apology.

    "Sorry you feel that way." Or " sorry you feel like that."

    Its putting the blame or the burden of responsibility on you. Classic deflection with the added bonus of she can come back to you if her plans dont pan out. We owe ourselves better than this lads.
     
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  6. koolpal

    koolpal Fapstronaut

    This "neediness" falls under the psychological model of attachment theory.

    Examples of girls I've run into:
    1. Anxious-ambivalent ("I dunno, maybe we can go out")
    2. Anxious-preoccupied ("Sorry, I'm just so damn busy")
    3. Dismissive-avoidant ("No, you have a good evening now")
    4. Fearful-avoidant (runs away from you)
    5. Disorganized/disoriented (drunk)
    Obviously, the ideal is both you & your match having a "secure" attachment style.

    Hope that helps.

    Ref:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory
    1. Secure
    2. Anxious-ambivalent
    3. Anxious-avoidant
    4. Disorganized/disoriented
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults
    1. Secure
    2. Anxious-preoccupied
    3. Dismissive-avoidant
    4. Fearful-avoidant
     
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  7. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    I appreciate everyone who in one way or the other said, move on. I wasn't really hung up this girl though I was a bit stuck on the outcome. I used to deal with women with a heavy dose of "she's the only one" but now I readily accept there's women in abundance out there! In hindsight I've been too hard on myself with this one. Didn't she was "the one" but did think she might be the next one. Anyway, points made and accepted.

    I AM needy though! She didn't use those words. I did. @koolpal, thanks for the wiki references.

    I'm anxious-preoccupied in the model. Reading that was kind of a "no shit, Sherlock!" moment. But it helps me understand that working on self is still the thing to be doing.

    RD
     
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  8. Dakshinamurti

    Dakshinamurti Fapstronaut

    From what I read there, the key statement was 'free spirit.'

    Free spirit more or less = 'not ready for a serious relationship' and/or 'want to root ALL the things!'
    What you're describing in regards to choosing a nice restaurant, opening doors etc will be perceived as charming by a girl who's actually looking for a stable boyfriend.

    In my experience, girls who have called me needy straight out were mainly made uneasy by the fact that I only attach to one person at a time. It bites, but a lot of people do this whole 'dating pool' thing which involves a mindset incompatible with someone who's only attracted to one person at a time. What I'm saying is, it ain't your fault, and it's easier for her to call you out as needy or smothering in order to push you away. Ultimately it reveals a bit of her own pathology.
     
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  9. Try smothering her with a pillow
     
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  10. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    @BuzzAldrin WTF? I’m thrilled she self selected out. Much prefer a lost free Spirit to when I try to keep in a bottle. That’s not gonna and well for anybody. And I’m thrilled I’m learning from the feedback she gave me and the feedback I’m getting here. Your comment has no purpose here.Take your anger and animosity towards women somewhere else.
     
  11. Calm down buttercup it's just joke.
     
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  12. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    Get a new writer. It’s not funny.
     
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  13. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    @dakshinamurti, I appreciate the words. Yes free spirit stood out to me as well. I enjoyed my time at charming. It’s on me to find the woman that will be charmed by my charming.

    I’ve not been beating myself up over this. Trying to use it as a learning moment. And with the comments most of you have made it certainly has been that. I greatly appreciate it!
     
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  14. SpoonDog

    SpoonDog Fapstronaut

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    A few thoughts on how I try to avoid putting a needy vibe out:
    • When dating (I do it online) I like to have 'backup' options i.e. chat to multiple people. That way I feel I come across less needy, as there is less at stake if the dating doesn't go anywhere. Whereas if they're my only option, it's more likely to make me come across as needy.
    • In the early days I like to make them wait a while before I text back. And if they don't reply, I am unlikely send a chaser, I prefer to wait until they reply. Or if they don't it's their loss.
    • And while dating, I try not be too nice and having the confidence to take the piss a bit generally seems to go down quite well and it balances out the nicey nicey stuff.
    Naturally, women can be the same and the needy ones usually reveal their colours very early on.
     
  15. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    I've come to some conclusions. I appreciate the help in working through this.

    I don't approach women from a secure standpoint. That bears out if I look at my relationship history or if I compare myself to an attraction model. I put myself second and her first. I approach the relationship as if it defined me. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    I'm not spinning this loss in my head because I feel like it was all that much of a loss. I am using it to reflect on where I've been and where I'm going. That "going" has been tainted with porn habits and related nonsense (particularly dating apps). I'm a long time addict who worked into a long term health place (without porn) and good life (and a great relationship) a couple years ago who stumbled back into the swamp last year and haven't been able to get out. I'm 54. Single. Divorced. Wanting to date. Admittedly not really ready to date. I'm working to become ready.

    I am not interested in being other than me with whoever I am with. I am not interested in settling for the women I might likely "catch" at the moment.

    My work is about digging deep and undoing things from my past that have created weakness, taking care of myself first and then, when I'm really walking the Earth with a swagger from long ago finding the woman who fits with the real me.

    Thank you all!
     
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  16. Dakshinamurti

    Dakshinamurti Fapstronaut

    That's some powerful self-reflection there. Well done, I'm convinced that a LOT of people never get to that level of honesty with themselves. Best of luck!
     
  17. OnTheEdge

    OnTheEdge Fapstronaut

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    I have just had a girl end us dating for the opposite - I was not affectionate enough.

    I knew early on she wasn't 'the one' but kept it going because it was nice having someone and I found it really difficult to end it myself for fear of being alone again or in case I was somehow ending a relationship taht could possibly blossom into something more. I did like her as a person and thought she was great but I just knew I didn't really want to be with her.

    The beginning of the end was when she stayed with me over a weekend. I just couldn't have sex with her because I felt like I would have to commit to her if that happened. I also didn't do the stuff I had done before, like holding her hand, stroking her hair, kissing. I felt like I should send her a message by being less affectionate. In reality I should have just been more honest and talked to her about it.

    The last time we met I was very honest with her about my issues in general (mental health). She interpreted it as me just not being an affectionate person and it turns out she expected me to want to be holding her hand all the time and doting on her all the time. She told me it 'didn't even cross her mind' that she wanted to have sex even though she stayed overnight and we shared a bed. I guess she just didn't want me to think she was 'easy'.

    I have learned that you just have to be honest with your feelings. You can't just settle for someone just because you feel lonely. I'm glad I went through the experience, though.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  18. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Fapstronaut

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    Chops to you for KNOWING your feelings and acting on them. I knew I had similar feelings, got married, which lasted 17 years. 3 great sons out of the deal so no regrets but that's the shit that happens when we don't know our feelings or know them and hide them and don't act on them.

    My ideal is to KNOW my feelings and then ACT on them by communicating them directly and fearlessly. I've got some work to do!
     
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  19. RequestDenied

    RequestDenied Fapstronaut

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    Yes. I used to put off a needy vibe and fixed it. Without knowing specifics about your situation it's hard to give advice but based on what you wrote, here's a few starters:

    1. Text - If she doesn't text back, then don't text her again. Tough pill to swallow but it's the truth. Texting again after "radio silence" is the definition of neediness.

    2. Text Content - Look at your text convo with her. I'm willing to bet an indian nickel you invest more than she does. Meaning your texts are (1) longer than hers and (2) you reply quicker than hers. It may seem childish but here's a rule of thumb to quick fix this problem: (1) always respond with fewer words than her (2) always wait at least as long as she waits to respond.

    3. Dinner and whatnot. I know you said you weren't going to change this but this is the needy part. Fancy dinners and holding doors is very high-investment behavior and can come across as needy. Translation: you're picking these fancy dinners and holding doors open because you're trying to earn her approval. That's kinda' needy. I know it stings to hear it but it's the truth.

    In the future aim for lower investment dates. Coffee or drinks. The purpose of dates is to find out if she's worth your attention...not to win her approval.

    4. Golden Ratio - Only invest 2/3 in what women give to you. She talks for 3 minutes. You talk for 2. She kisses you 3 times. You kiss her twice. And so on and so forth. Keep in mind. You are the prize. The one experience women can't get anywhere else...they can't rent it or purchase it...is your voluntary, undivided, high-quality attention. It's your most valuable resource so give it away only sparingly and if she earns it.

    To the delusional incels stuck in their worldview, this golden ratio will seem childish. I thought the exact same thing...

    Until it worked like gangbusters time and time again...

    You asked for advice (rooted in real-world, proven experience) so there you go.

    Best of luck broseph!

    ps to the girl in question - I'd give her radio silence. She said you're currently smothering her. So I wouldn't contact her for a long time. Eventually she'll start spinning her wheels. You'll go from "needy...not a good fit..." to "what's he up to...why isn't he thinking about me like he always does..." she'll start to crave your attention in it's absence. and if she doesn't, there are always other fish in the sea :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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