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Required a lot of less sleep

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by kyumie, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. kyumie

    kyumie Fapstronaut

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    So it's quite crazy and it started since last week on around day 55 of nofap.

    Despite of mine morning wood mine thaugh does not go to mastrubation anymore and beside that I sleep way less.

    I sleep good on 9 hours before and trust me, I kick you in the head if you tease me in the morning.
    Now I sleep around 4-5 hours and am wide awake.

    Got to many hours to enjoy of life right now:p.

    I do have to say I was not that addicted to fapping, like 1x a day which was more for stress release.

    So am I fully healed?, and do you experience way less sleep?
     
  2. Dude, those are some mad life hacks. Amount of time you gain is crazy.
     
  3. Zapster21

    Zapster21 Fapstronaut

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    4-5 hours of sleep is not healthy. Your body requires 7-8 hours of sleep. So I am not so sure that this is a time gain on your behalf since you are not giving your body enough rest.
     
  4. Correct. OP, 6 h 30 minutes minimum a night. Ideally 7-8 h . Otherwise you are making yourself ill long term.
     
  5. There is no scientific evidence that a lack of sleep is detrimental to your health. People in history have lived well into their 90s and 100s off 4 hours sleep a night over their lifetime. We’re all different.
     
  6. Zapster21

    Zapster21 Fapstronaut

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    Well...in that case, I would like to know your sources, because I have never heard of the claims that you are making here. All research points to the fact that sleep is a very important determinant of your health and wellbeing.

    If you consult the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services they clearly state:
    "Sleep plays a vital role in good health and well-being throughout your life. Getting enough quality sleep at the right times can help protect your mental health, physical health, quality of life, and safety."

    Furthermore, they conclude:
    "...ongoing sleep deficiency can raise your risk for some chronic health problems. It also can affect how well you think, react, work, learn, and get along with others."

    For the lack of enough hours:
    "After several nights of losing sleep—even a loss of just 1–2 hours per night—your ability to function suffers as if you haven't slept at all for a day or two."
     
  7. No numbers given, "enough quality sleep" could be anything here.
     
  8. I’d like to see THEIR sources. Sleep is a largely unexplored domain and, truth be told, no-one knows for sure.
     
  9. The idea that we all need 7 hours of sleep is absolute garbage. Why? Because first of all it was average calculation for average person. And average person, especially these days with our modern life styles, is not at perfect health. If not for serious health problems, then they are probably stressed and depleted in various ways at the very least. I think every doctor who has specialized in a field of sleep medicine would agree that the average is not a rule of all but just that - average. And that healthy individuals generally require less sleep to recharge.

    Let me quote the US National Sleep Foundation:
    There is the link to a full article where you can find a link to the newest relevant study itself too - https://sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/how-much-sleep-do-we-really-need

    Even experts themselves say that there are such thing as individual differences and that it varies according to health, genetics and life style. Then comes media and puts the story on TV. Then whole bunch of people hear that and mindlessly regurgitate "7 hours for every single adult no exceptions otherwise unhealthy blah blah blah", which was never what sleep experts said and what the studies were never about.

    @kyumie Awesome to hear that you are getting benefits man. If you feel healthy and well rested then it's all that matters, enjoy extra free time. Are you fully healed? Well, not necessary. You can experience many benefits even before your brain fully heals, so it's hard to tell for sure. But it's a great start. I remember needing less sleep too back when I had long streak. Not quite as little as 4 hours but more like 5 to 6, while before I needed like 9 to 10. The body is healing and has less damage to repair on a daily basis, which is one of the reasons for sleep. That's a good sign!
     
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  10. OKay, this might seem weird, but I'm actually feeling sleepier and lazier. I'm on day 20.

    I woke up today at around 7:30 took a bath and slept again till like 2 wtf.

    Does anyone else also feel lazier/sleepier?
     
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  11. TruChange

    TruChange Fapstronaut

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    I remember hearing that Paleolithic people used to split their sleep. They went to sleep when it got dark (say 7 or 8pm) and sleep until 2/3am. Then they woke up and did some socializing, preparing food, maintaining the camp, etc. Then go back to sleep until 6/7am.

    P.S. I agree that saying every human needs the same amount of hours sleep is ridiculous.
     
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  12. James_007

    James_007 Fapstronaut

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    Yes even i do feel the same way and feel very fresh with less hours of sleep. Only suggestion to you is, there is nothing wrong with you at the first place so nothing can be healed. Right question to ask is i am including nofap as my lifestyle forever !!
     
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  13. Testosterone levels and sleep hours:

    [​IMG]
    Sleeping only 4-5 hours a night literally cuts your testosterone levels in half, which kind of defeats one of the major benefits of NoFap, with regards to upregulating androgen receptors. No point in upregulating androgen receptors if you then cut your testosterone in half anyway. If you took two people, one who did NoFap but only slept 4 hours, and one who masturbated regularly but slept 7-9 hours, the guy who slept longer would be better off in terms of their androgen activity. So what you're doing is a massive waste, and defeats what you're trying to achieve with NoFap.

    You should never judge your sleep based purely on how you feel when you wake up. How you feel when you wake up depends mostly on which stage of sleep you were in when you woke up. Waking up in stage 1 sleep, the lightest stage of sleep will leave you feeling refreshed and full of energy, even if you only slept less than an hour. Waking up in REM sleep or deep sleep will leave you feeling groggy and tired, even if you slept longer than you needed to. Waking up in stage 2 and stage 3 sleep is somewhere in between, i.e. groggy but not as bad as REM or deep sleep.

    Yes it's true that there isn't one fixed length of sleep that is good for everyone, but there is still a range. Realistically for 99% of people, the ideal amount of sleep is going to be between 7 and 9 hours. For a few it might be slightly under 7, or slightly over 9.

    Either way, 4-5 hours is not enough sleep for healthy hormone levels, period.

    Certain things like NoFap, regular cardio etc will make you feel good even on insufficient sleep, but that does NOT mean that getting insufficient sleep is okay - it just means you won't feel bad when you do. All the negatives are still occurring, just you have more energy so you don't notice them.
     
  14. Looks to me like you have no clue what you're talking about. That little graphic you googled doesn't represent anything without context. If you want to spread valuable information, search for more than magazine-articles about sleep, which are written by people that also don't know anything about the topic.

    shit is ringing my "fake-news" bells...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2017
  15. Unless you can cite a legitimate source from which you got this, I am going to assume you made this in Microsoft Word. As the above poster mentioned, this is useless garbage without proof to back it up.

    Looks like a weak correlation coefficient anyways, as well as a sample size that is much too small. It would take a fool to draw meaningful conclusions from this information.
     
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  16. I've made a graph by now:
    Unbenannt.jpg
     
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  17. That image comes from this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17520786

    Yes it's a small sample size, but if you don't believe it, try it yourself. Get your testosterone blood results, then go a week later on 4 hours sleep and see the difference. :)

    Just for good measure, here's one with a sample size of 531 participants that shows the same result:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19684340

    Here's a graphic from that 2nd study:

    [​IMG]
    If you can't read the small text, the vertical axis == Testosterone levels and Bioavailable Testosterone (ng/dL). The horizontal axis = sleep durations, of which the 4 from left to right are: < 4 hours, 4-6 hours, 6-8 hours, and > 8 hours.

    How about some more studies?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4445839/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3542327/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22568763/

    All of these studies found the same results.

    So yes, please don't contribute unless you know what you're talking about. ;)

    Anyway, some of you may be satisfied with that, and yet be wondering: But why? Why does sleep deprivation lower testosterone?

    It's actually rather simple. There is a correlation between your circulating testosterone, and the number of REM periods you have during your sleep (Since y'all think this is "fake news", have a source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1287680) (Scratch that, have two, this one also suggests that time spent in REM matters, not just the frequency: http://www.em-consulte.com/en/article/75857 )

    You have 5 stages of sleep:

    Stage 1
    Stage 2
    Stage's 3 & 4 (Deep Sleep)
    Stage 5 (REM Sleep)

    Your body cycles through these stages of sleep. The first REM stage occurs approximately 90 minutes into your sleep, and is relatively short in duration. Approximately every 90 minutes (although the actual time varies from individual to individual, and is affected by medications/drugs/diet/etc) you enter a new REM stages.

    So in a typical 8 hour sleep, you have REM stages at the following intervals:
    - ~90 minutes
    - ~3 hours
    - ~4 hours 30 minutes
    ~ 6 hours

    A total of 4 REM stages, the final one being the longest by far.

    With 4 hours of sleep, you have REM stages at the following times:
    - ~90 minutes
    - ~3 hours

    If you only sleep 4 hours, you spend LESS than half the time in REM, since you only have two REM periods, and those are the two shortest ones of the night.

    This is why you end up with lower T levels upon waking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2017
  18. The studies you reference don't even corelate to what we are talking about in the slightest. OP is not deprived of sleep, because no one forces him to wake up earlier - as the second study explains - they were doing.

    He just wakes up earlier and feels good then.

    You really shouldn't just take anything that looks like it can support your claims and try to sell it as evidence. What I'm reading about here now is not really helping you out, first link:

    "This process is characterized by considerable inter-individual variability", "This" being: "The circulating testosterone levels"
    You can even see that your first picture has massive variances in the measurements, what do you conclude from this?

    I conclude that I'm wasting my time here, I'll not go and explain every little thing there is to understand about statistics, what a mean is and what a solid logical conclusion is.

    Edit: Don't take it personally, I don't want to attack you, but the idea of knowing what the right thing to do is for someone you don't know, based on statistics that generalize (which is not a bad thing in itself) and are not even comparable to the situation stated is just beyond me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2017
  19. Let me just say my honest opinion about this conversation.

    First of all, Phil Calmarto, you have the "knowledge" abut today's statistics, and how easy is to lie with statistics - which is great. But too, please (at least from my point of view) - please don't say every, every one scientific study is a lie with no background (*meaning study without background) (there is always at least a grain of truth there). And to rest of this thread:

    Doesn't it seem to you like children playing in sand playground? One builds sand castle by mold (a scientific study), another one stamps over it saying it is BS. One in this thread said something very relevant: sleep is really unresearched domain, or underresearched better said. The very same is it with NoFap - there are some studies that porn is bad, only some tell that it has bad effets, and even no paper tells that it has direct bad effect. Just one that correlates stress, another one that correlates relationship statuses etc. And you are here - did you really believe these uncomplete studies, that no PMO will heal your lives? Did you really thing that when it is not scientifically proven it will work? Funny thing NoFap works without extreme DIRECT scientific proof. And you throw there studies over each over, then deny them - why so? These studies are just saying that these values were measured, maybe they also make one conclusion, which doesn't have to be true, there might be one another big factor not mentioned - but even uncomplete conclusion "licks the truth", at least. Also, what is science? And how developed is medical science, how much we understand processes in body? On lowest scale, we don't!. So, throwing studies is useless, because there is NO STUDY that will say 100% truth about sleep, there is NO STUDY that is 100% right, and there is NO STUDY that can surely satisfy the question given on top of this page. So, my point here is that this conversation seems to me little a lot worthless, and that you could continue for next year until one one you would give up (because of time), but no one would win.

    And to OP, I am not going to throw over you 10 studies or articles written by random redactors who haven't studied medicine, or random doctors working as redactors with minimum knowledge (of course, there are some skilled ones, but not many). As I said, sleep is really unresearched domain. We don't know what happens on chemical level, how can it happen naturally during the day. Yes, I know that believing average numbers and taking them as leaders to your life is bad, because they don't have to be accurate. You could take information from local enviroment you live in, make it more relative to you. But my point is that there are fragments of informtion that you can use - and it is on you to decide if you will continue, or stop. I don't say my yes/no opinion from my perspective, but can PrivateM, if you would like - but it will be just another one's experience.

    To sum it up: Yeah, like Wim Hof proved world that cold is not bad - we were built to be cold, that antonomous body systems can be consciously regulated, you may prove the world that 7 hour of sleep is BS, that we were all living in lie - and you could change the world. But also look from another perspective - it could be giant regulation system failure, it could lead to unknown malfunctions of body, maybe some know diseases, that could be fatal. Decision is yours.

    It is your life, you decide the way you want to live :)
    Good luck, peace out and stay strong!
    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
  20. I assure you, I don't think - nor did I say - that all statistics are lies. That would be insane.

    The value of them lies in the reaction people have towards the data. If you look at the data rationally, without trying to make a point, that is a great thing.

    One could even say that almost every statistic is true in some sense, but some of them are displayed in a way that it seems, the author tries to imply personal beliefs onto data, that can lead to dangerous misassumptions. I do not want that to happen, so if there's anything to draw from what I say, it would be this:

    Make a conclusion after viewing data, go in being open to be surprised, don't restrict yourself by what you already "seem" to know. You can then - of course - look at how the data gets displayed, samplesize etc..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
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