Relapsing and feeling defeated-repost-

I am reposting this because I had previously deleted a post asking for help but since I felt desperate and nobody answered, I decided to withdraw it. Then I got an inbox and found some comfort. Please, write all your opinions, as I still feel like trash.

I relapsed a couple of weeks ago, but the hardest hit I felt it on Sunday.
I had been out of porn for almost two years, occasionaly reading erotic stories and watching nudes, masturbation was more or less prominent, but I could and can do it without watching anything. Yet, hurtful memories of clips that I watched came back over and over again, making me having arousals with things I dared not to have ever watched (just regular American porn, but deeply gross). I even had insecurity over my penis size. I was eating a lot and drinking heavily and did not care about anything else. Then I got split from my wife. She left me, but we still talked.

My sexual life with my separated wife (from whom I separated last November) went down hill, but not because of porn (I was off porn at that time) rather by conflicts between her and I (we ended up splitting and we are still in talkings). Yet, I did not have any sexual acts since November 2016.

I then met a girl in another country (I am originally from Latin America but now life in Europe) and we hooked up, we had sex and met again around two other occasions. Sex was incredible, I was feeling my manliness coming back, but then slowly relapsed. I thought it was ok. I felt I was in control. I could quit porn for long periods of time. ONe month or one day, it did not matter. Yet, the more I started to go back to it, the deeper I went into. And it was ok (I know it is never ok to relapse, but at the time, I did not feel like that), as I was watching things that I more or less liked and did not disturb me.

Last Saturday I had a big fight with my girl (wife), we were talking about going back, but then all of the old scars returned. We had a big fight over the phone and we got mad at each other. I went out with a friend, hugged a couple of girls, danced and did a lot of social stuff.

Sunday morning, I had to work (I have to use my personal laptop so I spend long periods of time over the internet). She called me back, we fought again. And then I started masturbating to a couple of pics I had from her. Nice intimate pics she sent me years ago. I was feeling ok, but then I went back to porn, using a famous website that starts with "x". The more I got into, the confident I got to confront old clips and do not feel an arousal, just relying on porn that made me feel comfortable. I succeded in this for most of them, but the last clip I decided to fight back and feel ok and never again get memories of it, got me aroused. It was a normal clip, man-to-woman, but in a bit extreme (religious stuff, but not necessarily Christian), with features that I personally find offensive and deeply intimidating. I was so disturbed that I couldn't watch it before orgasm, so I orgasmed with my eyes closed thinking of something nice that I liked. Then the pain started.

I had sworn to myself never to have an arousal again with that type of pornograpy, and I failed. I got desperate, bought a couple of beers and started crying, calling my mom overseas and feeling like trash. I also had sworn not to do or watch that porn and masterbate while in my new home (Europe) as I thought of myself better. I wanted to feel a new life away from porn. I tried over and over watching other porn less serious in tone. I would do that until yesterday that I put an end to watching it. But depression has been on me all the time.

I never had a unsuccesful social life. Got girls in high school, kissed them in college, laid with them, had relationships even to the point that I married. But then, I realized that I was deviating from it when I started watching porn that I didn't like. I got so desensitized that I cared not about my own emotional and moral beliefs and got into it for a couple of times. It scarred me.

Now my sympthoms are in the following:
1Distress and pain
2Memories of the porn come back
3Rationalization and calming
4Temporary periods of relaxation and feeling ok again
5Memories come back
6Sometimes I am able to put them aside and feel good again
7Sometimes they bring me back to point 1, and that is where all starts.

I had successfully got rid of porn. My life was much better than before (I had fallen into deep emotional distress when I split up with my wife). I traveled to other countries. When I met this new girl and developed a new relationship (a very beautiful one, where sexual intercourse was fantastic, did not need porn at all) I felt like the king of the world. I got back my manliness and had almost pushed away all of that porn. But these scars chased me and destroyed me.

My profile: I am a normal 28 year old metalhead. I hold a Masters degree and already got married two years ago. I have been able to move around the world and feel quite good. I must say that I was raised in a strict Catholic home, with deep right wing views. I felt a lot of conflict while growing up, as a teenager I started using porn when I was 13 and I couldn't stop until I went to a Catholic seminary for a year. My parents divorced and litigated for the custody of my family and I. When I came back from the seminary, I broke away from my Catholic faith, but not of my right wing views. This is not a problem, but I still hold a lot of guilt and shame from my upbringing. So when I watch something like what I saw last sunday, it really disturbs me.

Thanks for listening to me. I hope you can help.

 

@Conan_Crusader Hello. I read all your post and I really believe you can achieve great things and have a great relationship with a girl you will love and who will love you back.

Now about your addiction. I will speak from my personal experience.

1. We porn addicts should keep in mind that quitting PMO does not make us special in any way. It just makes us normal again. Many people believe that if they quit PMO they will somehow get super-powers and become superior beings. They will not, because, in spite of all appearances, an addiction is not a curse, but a weakness. So they are not heroes fighting a curse, but weak persons trying to become normal. We just come back to reality and normal life, ready to face problems that normal people solved a long time ago. Because we have wasted so much time, energy and thoughts with our addiction, we're always a bit behind the others - the non-addicts. That's why we are prone to make more mistakes than others and then we PMO in order to forget about those mistakes, in a never-ending cycle.

2. We addicts should be aware that there is no such thing as 'a new beginning' or 'a fresh start'. Beginning a new relationship, living in a new apartment, or sleeping in a new bed - none of these will ever help us efficiently, let alone guarantee that our minds will ever love a thing other than porn. If you check other addicts' accounts on this site, you will see there is nothing in this world that may inhibit an addict: even when his kids are ill or his wife is unhappy, before an important interview or when suffering from erectile dysfunctions, he will not stop. Then why would we think he will quit PMO after moving to a new home?

3. No matter how much we may pray, fast or do good things, this is not going to help us PMO addicts to get rid of our addiction. This is because we do not need help. People who are persecuted for their courage, or who suffer without being guilty of anything - these are the ones who need help, but the irony is these people are the least who are going to ask for it, because they will prefer to fight till the end instead of begging. Nobody forces us addicts to PMO. Though it's not easy, we can stop PMO-ing any time we want. The question is - do we want to?

4. The reason why we don't decide to stop PMO-ing is because we want to PMO. That's what makes our fight really tough - the fact that we actually don't fight against PMO, but against our love for and attachment to PMO.

 

First of all you have taken a great step forward. The fact that you reached out for help means that you do truly want to be happy and that is essential. Now onto the challenging part.

These issues are often complex and multi-faceted--there is no quick or easy solution but there is a straightforward solution if you are willing to fight for your own happiness. The guides here will give you great technical advice and support resources if you use them but first you need to develop your character to do so. Like someone who wants to quit being obese and get healthy, all the technical dieting and workout advice won't help until they are the type of person i.e., have the character to consistently apply them. So I will examine your message and attempt to find the root cause of your addiction. If you know the root cause of an action, you can more effectively fix it.

[I had been out of porn for almost two years, occasionally reading erotic stories and watching nudes, masturbation was more or less prominent, but I could and can do it without watching anything. ]

(i)What you do or don't consider porn doesn't change what porn objectively is. Just like an alcoholic may not consider a few beers "drinking" it doesn't change the fact that enough of it is just dangerous to him and his progress as whisky. You being 'out of porn' is untrue, erotic stories are also porn. The effects of porn may be different depending on content but, the fact that you have the need to seek ANY sexual pleasure from virtual content is the problem. Instead of seeking self esteem from real achievements (which is the only way to gain self esteem) and encounters you are seeking a neurotic short-term gratification and attempting to fake reality. Reality cannot be faked, you are free to believe anything you want but, you are not free to succeed in reality by believing in falsehoods. You can believe beer isn't alcohol but your belief will not change the fact beer will also damage your liver and addiction to it will also ruin your relationships. All porn is bad for you because all porn is an attempt at getting real self esteem from virtual things i.e., an attempt to fake reality. That's not possible and that's why its dangerous regardless of the intensity of the content. Like a person trying to satisfy their real hunger and need for nutrients by looking at videos of people eating it is not possible and the outcome is that not matter how hard you try you will never be able to satisfy real needs that way. Reality is reality and if you want to experience real self esteem from sex you will have to pay for it.
Any value has a price, and human value costs virtues. Value is that which you wish to gain and virtue is the means by which one gains it. For example, trust is a value and one gains it by being trustworthy/honest and having integrity. A woman's admiration (the value) comes at the cost of being a man worth valued (the virtue). Any attempt to fake this will result in failure. More so, the more you distort your mind to try and gain real pleasure from fake means, the less capable your mind becomes to gain real values.

Virtue and Values are a whole lengthy topic but the core of what I am trying to say is:

"There is something you want to feel that you don't get from porn, yet you keep watching it and feeling shit. That is because the rational part of you [the ego] that should be in charge is on the sidelines letting your impulses and emotions [which are wrongly calibrated] run your life. Neither impulses nor emotions are tools of logic [more on this later] and if you want the best chance at getting real happiness you have to use the tool that gives you the best chance, your REASON. In every moment you should never attempt to hide from your reason nor act against it, to do so is to be sub-human--an animal and to only be able to achieve what animals can i.e. eating, shitting and empty physical stimulus. Not love, independence, confidence, pride, friendship, and certainly not happiness. If you want to be happy you have to think and always examine your actions to determine if they are bringing you closer or further away from your happiness. Happiness is not a temporary escape or dillusion it is a non-contradictory state of joy, free from any contradictions or conflicts with any of your values. It is a state of feeling that life is good and worth living. If that sounds good to you then (i) always act withing your knowledge using reason (ii) always expand your knowledge so you arent limited (iii) never accept any information that contradicts with the facts of reality."

[Yet, hurtful memories of clips that I watched came back over and over again, making me having arousals with things I dared not to have ever watched (just regular American porn, but deeply gross).]

What a man finds sexually attractive is a direct reflection of who that man is. You can say that some porn is gross or disgusting but arousal in humans isn't physical it is physiological.E.g. If a beautiful woman is a paedophile, then regardless of her advances she is still unattractive to a reasonable man of self esteem. It takes no super-human feats of will to resister, he simply isn't attracted to her because she is not a good enough woman to attract him [This is a simplified description because sex is another very lengthy topic]. Note that this woman is still beautiful LOOKING but as a sexual partner a man of self esteem can gain nothing from her beyond wetness on his penis, nothing from her character makes her affection mean anything. Like if a fool compliments a man's genius it means nothing, only a compliment from a reasonable man who understands the geniuses work means anything to him. If you find gross stuff a turn on it means that that is CURRENTLY your estimation of yourself and it is the best in you, your ego that recognises your own potential, which is crying out in disgust. As you become a better man i.e., a rational man of self esteem, you will no longer find this things attractive.
As to why you find those things attractive in the first place, there are multiple possibilities but, the most likely [based on your message] is that you need greater and greater stimulus to 'feel something' like an any addict or adrenaline junkie, you need a bigger hit or a greater high to feel something. Pain is worse that being numb and gross stuff causes you to feel aroused because it is a new/ more intense stimulus. As you ease off the porn and find new values your preferences will change. But, so long as you fail to accept this, or compartmentalises your 'body' as being a separate entity with a will of its own, you will never over come that conflict. Like any rapist, womaniser, paedophile etc. they have attempted to split their mind and their body claiming that it is a natural reflex or subconscious action. They do not/ or refuse to understand that we programme our own subconscious [another lengthy topic].

[I even had insecurity over my penis size]
That's dumb. Woman can orgasm from fingers alone, the most important thing is the man you are, the more willing she is to submit/open herself up to you the more pleasure she'll feel regardless of dick size. If size was the main issue women would be sleeping with horses...literally. They want men, and the greater the calibre of man you are the greater pleasure she will feel (if she is also a woman of self esteem). That being said each individual has their own preferences and you can neither change these nor change the size of your penis. If it is a micro-penis, accept it become a great man and find a woman who doesn't care. Either that or be miserable for every.

[I was eating a lot and drinking heavily and did not care about anything else]
As you already know, you can't escape from reality not for any meaningful time anyway and te more you try the less like;y you are to get real happiness in the real world.

[Then I got split from my wife. She left me, but we still talked]
I don't know your circumstances but if you broke up for good reasons you should cut your ties. If you think she is your highest vision, the partner who makes you the happiest according to your highest values. Then act like it and do everything in your power to win her back. This half and half nonsense is a recipe for ending up an old man who's never achieved anything.

[My sexual life with my separated wife (from whom I separated last November) went down hill, but not because of porn (I was off porn at that time]
I don't know what your issues were but, yes you were still watching/ reading some form of pornography. Not to mention that addiction isn't just about the action itself its about the man you become. Anxious, guilty, afraid, irritable, having unrealistic expectations of your partner, not having meaningful sex with her, being unproductive, etc. It all factors in, its about the man that you were at the time. Not to say the relationship ending was your fault, I don't know that.

[Sex was incredible, I was feeling my manliness coming back, but then slowly relapsed]
Sex talk: Sex is an issue of self esteem it is to experience the character of a person in the flesh. A man gains self esteem by sexually conquering a woman. As his equal in character, the only thing that makes a man, masculine is his physiology and the only place a man can experience his masculinity is by the acceptance of a woman who is his equal. Similarly a woman [a reasonable one of self esteem] will only submit to a man who is at least her equal, she can only experience her femininity by permitting a man to conquer/enter her. Men and women both have independent minds of infinite potential, so they are equals. However, men and women have physiological differences and those dictate what is proper for each sex. A woman could not sexually dominate a man unless he willingly gave away his masculinity (another lengthy topic) going against his physiology which is wrong because he is attempting to fake reality.

If all that you wanted was physical pleasure, you could get it from your hand or a sex machine which, from what I understand, feel much better than any real woman. They are machines designed specifically for the sole purpose of giving you pleasure (like pornography). However you have already experiences how empty that pleasure is.
If all that you wanted was real physical pleasure than you would pay a prostitute or a gold-digger. There are many incredibly beautiful women who will do anything you ask for money. With the internet you can arrange just about anything you can imagine with a little time and money. However, as anyone who understands sex knows, there is no self esteem to be gained from this. Money is not a virtue (though earning it is) this woman has not surrendered to you, she has surrendered to your money as she would to anyone's money.
You also cannot gain self esteem from sleeping with any hot girl. The acceptance and surrender of any woman whose character doesn't align with your highest values, means nothing. This is evidenced in the many men who attempt to make up for the lack of self esteem buy racking up numbers [I've had 200 women so I must be something...right] or bragging about it to others [here's a picture of the girl I had sex with, she is beautiful and if you agree that it is an achievement then I must be something...right?]. Neither can get self esteem. Only a woman who knows what she wants out of life [has purpose], is pursuing it for her own happiness/ because she believes she deserves it [self esteem], and uses her mind to guide her actions [reason], cam allow you to feel any self esteem. When you heal, and begin to pursue your happiness, you will choose what form of happiness that is i.e., the task your mind will work towards. As you do so, you will have to become a certain type of man. As you do so, what you like will become more and more clear and so will the type of women that you are attracted to. Be it a housewife who conscientiosly works to raise confident, capable toddlers or a female president, both are fine women and it is up to you and your path what is most appropriate as your companion.

[Sunday morning, I had to work (I have to use my personal laptop so I spend long periods of time over the internet). She called me back, we fought again. And then I started masturbating to a couple of pics I had from her. Nice intimate pics she sent me years ago. I was feeling ok, but then I went back to porn, using a famous website that starts with "x". The more I got into, the confident I got to confront old clips and do not feel an arousal, just relying on porn that made me feel comfortable. I succeded in this for most of them, but the last clip I decided to fight back and feel ok and never again get memories of it, got me aroused. It was a normal clip, man-to-woman, but in a bit extreme (religious stuff, but not necessarily Christian), with features that I personally find offensive and deeply intimidating. I was so disturbed that I couldn't watch it before orgasm, so I orgasmed with my eyes closed thinking of something nice that I liked. Then the pain started.]

Unreasonable. A reasonable man would not put his happiness at risk for short term pleasure. If you desire porn more than self esteem and happiness then you will get just that. An old man with only a long long porn history to show for his limited time on earth.

Accept your fault. Learn from it. Let go of the painful emotions, correct the mistakes you can and live with the ones you can't. If you change, happiness will still be possible for you. But if you can't you can never be happy. Happiness is a real thing and it is yours to take. Don't let it drown in a sea of mediocre nonsense. Just like any other thing, you get good at something by learning and practice. Learn and practice. Make a plan and act on it. The sooner you are successful the sooner you can claim your happiness. You won't live for ever. Don't mope just take the most reasonable route to your goal.

[But depression has been on me all the time.]

Depression is the state of an unsuccessful soul. Of wanting a better life, but not being able to get it--as a result of one's own actions. It is the feeling of betraying that which should never be betrayed 'one's best self'. Its very challenging to deal with. Attempting to push it aside leads to many complications and an entire host of mental illnesses.
Dealing with it is hard. There are many great resources for that online as well but they often don't tell you the root issue is:
"Reality is reality and the facts of reality are constants that can't be changed. Your ego, reason knows this. It knows that to survive and to be happy you must never turn away from reality. To do so is to voluntarily lead oneself closer to death. That is depression, the feeling that one is unworthy of living and all of the good things that come with it. All method's of correcting it [exercise-especially combat sports/punching bags, healthy diet, appropriate sleeping, and healthy-open-honest social interaction] are all a means of making one feel more worthy of living. As a human being you have potential and so, already have the right to live. Never turning a blind eye to reason, to the best in you, to the fullest most purposeful use of your time, is what makes a creature whose life is worth living a human being who can experience countless positives during your lifetime. Your life is yours. You are not the sacrificial lamb of others like any religions say, you are not your brother's keeper like society says. Your life is yours and you are free to use it as you wish. To succeed or fail by the merits of your own mental effort. Combating depression is about making yourself a being whose life is worthy of living not living for others. I hope you beat it.

[I never had a unsuccesful social life. Got girls in high school, kissed them in college, laid with them, had relationships even to the point that I married. But then, I realized that I was deviating from it when I started watching porn that I didn't like. I got so desensitized that I cared not about my own emotional and moral beliefs and got into it for a couple of times. It scarred me.]

I wouldn't define a successful social life by those measure. If those people where unproductive, unremarkable, unreasonable=average people then gaining their affection doesn't mean anything. Also briefly on morals. Currently morals are based on feelings and religious text. Neither of which are suitable guides on how to live ones life. Religious texts teach you to sacrifice yourself for everyone but yourself to enter a supernatural wonderland after you're dead. It is not possible to follow any religious text and live, they are a text on how to die in a way that buys you favour for when you are dead. That is the reason for the state of the world today, a world of people living by a morality whose standard of judgement isn't life in this world but, death in the next. On other issues not mentioned in text the only other moral compass is one's emotions. Emotions cannot tell you what is good or bad i.e. cannot make moral judgements because they are not tools of cognition [reason]. They will tell you you are sad that you are hungry but will it tell you how to get food or how to determine what food is poisonous and what is nutritious. Only reason can do so, and reason is based on observing the facts of reality and scrupulously examining them to understand what is beneficial and what is detrimental. The only standard of morality for life is that which sustains it and that which furthers it. Any individual who thinks that this will lead to violence and dissent is a fool who doesn't understand what a human is 'a creature who survives by effort of his mind i.e. a rational creature'. If one kills another, then they can be killed so the most reasonable rule i.e., the moral law should make killing illegal and put in place the best measures possible to prevent it. In addition a reasonable person seeks to gain values, one cannot gain any values by murdering an individual. A robber can gain temporary wealth but killing a wealthy man does not make him able to 'create wealth'. He is still dependant on wealthy people for his survival, he can not be independent, he is their slave. He creates nothing so he cannot be proud. No rational woman would choose a scavenger over a producer whose horizons are ever expanding so he will know no love. He is able to kill and live on as a scavenger but he is not able to live as a human or experience human happiness. Morality should be based on what is necessary for you to live as a human. All other moral philosophies make its followers unable to live, viewing life and happiness as enemies tearing a person apart. That his body is separate from his mind and his desires are evil, that his mind is feeble and not competent to understand his own purpose and the world around him, and that his life is not his own but for the sake of others, never once giving a satisfactory answer as to why each man cannot live life for his own sake.

You can recover, and you want to. So long as you are willing to examine yourself and question the things that you think you know, you will be ok. Examine your premise and never leave a contradiction unresolved. Seek reason above all else and you will inevitably achieve happiness.

I highly recommend the works of author Ayn Ran the founder of objectivism and the best author I've ever read. She dubs her philosophy [objectivism] a philosophy for living on earth. Her works are extensive and cover a wide range of material. A lot of it is academic writing so easing into it is better than diving in head-first. Her fiction covers the same topics and is incredibly entertaining.

I'd suggest reading a few in this order.

1.Anthem
2. We the living
3. The fountainhead
4. Atlas Shrugged

If you can only read one, due to scepticism about my words, read number 4. My closest friend asked me to read it every few weeks for 3 years. I am grateful that he cared enough about me to so. No self help book can surpass a book that teaches you how to live as a human and why its so important.

This is by far the longest message I have ever written. I value your struggle as I have had the same one. I am on the same journey so I have to look out for my juniors. I'll leave you with my favourite quote (of course from Ayn Rand)

...Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark in the hopeless swamps of the not-quite, the not-yet, and the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish in lonely frustration for the life you deserved and have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won. It exists.. it is real.. it is possible.. it's yours.
Ayn Rand
Writer, Philosopher