1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Recovery Should Be Hard

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by TryingHard2Change, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    [These thoughts have been brewing in my head for a bit..I'm not exactly sure how they are going to come out...and I'm speaking first and foremost to myself.]

    So this recovery stuff .. it's not easy. I've heard it mentioned that only 5%-6% of PA's will succeed in beating their addiction. Those are staggering odds AGAINST me, against all of us who are walking down this long, bumpy road of recovery.

    I asked a PA recently on NoFap who I believe relapsed many times, and was back after almost a year--he was energetic to start anew, again ... I asked him what his definitive plans were to approach recovery this time. And he replied with a link to a post he had from 12+ months ago .. and he said something basically like, "This is the list of steps I have used in the past--I found that these steps are the easiest way for me to stick to recovery."

    I wish that PA well. But I think that mentality is flawed. It's like saying I really, really want to get in shape and have great 6-pack abs .. what's the lightest weight and least number of reps I have to do?

    ..

    Recovery. Is. Hard. And it's not a quick process. So if things are feeling "easy" for me..that should be an alarm that maybe I'm not doing something right.

    The problem is, we are all prone to take the easiest path / the path of least resistance. But that isn't usually the correct path.

    And since we're talking about Recovery in general -- there is of course recovery from PA, but then there is relationship recovery for the PA. And, the SO has their own recovery path: the co-addict (the SO) has many deep-seeded negative patterns that they have to figure out how to uproot [whether they end up staying in the relationship or not].

    ..

    So for the PA's and the SO's -- how is recovery going? is it full of ups and downs / difficult moments / hardship after hardship? Then I propose that you are on the path of recovery. Keep going / keep fighting .. don't look for the easy way out / don't bury your head in the sand.

    On the other hand: are things kind of lax? are things quiet and smooth? are you years into recovery already and do you see the real light at the end of the tunnel? Or are you avoiding the hard work of recovery? are you ignoring the issues at hand because they are too hard to think about or deal with?

    Recovery Is Hard Work .. It Should Be Hard Work.

    ..

    Last thought: the fact that recovery is such hard work should make us PA's more and more empathetic towards our SO's. Their recovery is equally as hard [maybe harder]--and they are having to walk through this difficult time through no fault of their own! (And many of them are doing it!) If you are a PA like me .. remember that and appreciate their choice to stick in the relationship and walk through their own difficult recovery and yours.
     
  2. The hard way isn’t always the right way and the right way isn’t always the easiest way. Is recovery hard? Yes! Does it need to be unnecessarily hard? No.

    Take for example writing a letter to a loved one. Is the shortcut of writing an email wrong? Is the person less caring because they didn’t write it with pen and paper, put it in a envelope, stamp it, and then send it out to the post office to be mailed? Email is technically a shortcut that lets us bypass all of that work, but does the fact that it’s a shortcut and easy make it wrong?

    If that member had a plan in the past which cut out the unnecessary hardships and was simple and easy enough for him to follow and be faithful to, then that program is good for him!

    My coach sent me a workout and eating plan and I thought it was too easy so I made some tweaks to cut more calories. I ended up failing hard because the program was so rigid and difficult. The next time I tried again and didn’t alter anything my coach had setup; the end result? I kept with my plan and lost more weight and made more progress than when doing it the hard way.
     
  3. CowardlyLion

    CowardlyLion Fapstronaut

    I am at this moment at the hardest part of my entire life. Everything is in hell. But I feel like I am closer to recovery than I have ever been before.
    At the same time, I feel like I’m dying. But there’s a tiny bit of hope. A pure hope...I just need to get there.
     
  4. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

    222
    264
    63
    Nothing worth doing is easy....
     
  5. Damn right. It’s hard as hell. B/c we’re talking about our brains, our sex drive, our relationships and our own self-awareness.
     
  6. Beamer_Dreamer

    Beamer_Dreamer Fapstronaut

    52
    143
    63
    Yeah but if he's been trying that plan he had before and keeps failing, then it isn't strict enough.

    I think the key is to have balance. It can't be too easy or triggers, relapses, etc. Can come on too easily. Too hard, and you may be overwhelmed. This is different for everyone so finding your perfect difficulty will take trial and error. And remember, when starting the journey, that can happen many times before you get a streak of eternity going.
     
    Trappist, Kenzi and TryingHard2Change like this.
  7. True but I’m sure he hasn’t been trying that plan if he’s stating that he’s going back to that plan.
     
    Kenzi and Deleted Account like this.
  8. Foxislander

    Foxislander Fapstronaut

    This is very hard day 26 for me married 33 years, teen ager 18 started into drugs I transitioned into making a real time fantasy and it went wrong my wife did not accept it rightfully so it was wrong and I lost it because I realized that my fantasies had been used to objectify my wife for many years and didn't realize the hurt I had put my wife through. I begin this journey alone my wife has been doing it with me we have both been abstinent for 26 and are going for 90 or more to fix ourselves. I have been in therapy it has not been easy we have stopped therapy and are now going to through self-help books with boundries for her and Inner Circle boundaries for me. I have slept the last 3 nights because I broke her boundaries on a separate bed. The only touch that we have is touch that is not sexual holding hands like kisses and hugs everything has to be requested. There's no nudity there is no sexual innuendo we don't joke around like we used to not until he's getting gotten through the point where I have defog my brain. It is simply the hardest one of the hardest things I've ever done ever.
     
  9. NF4L

    NF4L Fapstronaut

    I will respectfully disagree with recovery being hard. Making the right decisions for yourself should be easy to do. Living with the wrong decisions you’ve made for yourself is hard. A true recovery should make you feel uncomfortable, just like any good goals you set for yourself. Refraining from P and MO shouldn’t be hard for anyone to do, but it will make them feel uncomfortable if that is what they are used to and is their routine. Telling your SO the truth and revealing your secrets and lies isn’t hard to do, you have to get go of your self preservation and it will be easy. The truth will set you free. You have to change your routine to change your life. You have to set real goals, not just easy ones that you can do in your sleep. A real goal should be obtainable, and to get to that goal it should make you feel uncomfortable. Maybe there is some hard work involved, a persistence in meeting your goal, but when you take the time to identify the steps necessary it should all be pretty simple and easier. You have to take the time to not only set your uncomfortable goal, but to plan out what is necessary to get there. If you dont it just seems hard, because you aren’t putting careful thought and mindfulness into it. You have to look into it as steps (is twelve?, no probably more). You may have to harden yourself, your willpower, find new strength, and determination. It may seem hard, because you don’t know what to do at times, because you don’t have the answers, or you choose not to look into yourself for them. You can always look outward, there are people out there who have succeeded against the odds, and they have stories to tell about it and advice to give, in them you may find the strength you need for yourself. Through their determination you may find the willpower to continue your recovery. In order to walk a mile you have to take that first step, and thousands more. On the road to recovery each day is a new day, a chance to make a better one, and you will have thousands more to help you on your journey to recovery.
     
  10. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Very refreshing .. thanks.

    The recovery I was referring to was all encompassing:
    * PA's trying to stay sober/clean
    * SO's trying to forgive [and determine if they can continue in their relationship with their PA]

    I wouldn't classify either of those as "easy" .. Yes, it is easy to speak the truth, once the PA musters up the courage [which yes, he/she should have done eons ago in the relationship].

    ..

    I really like your word choice of 'uncomfortable' -- maybe that is a better / more descriptive word than just 'hard'.
     
  11. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,866
    143
    Can you expand on what your meaning is here?
     
  12. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I believe it means something different for every SO...that's why I think my words are vague there.

    Have you read Carnes [I believe] initial book => Don't Call it Love: Recovery from Sexual Addiction ... written in 1991, pre-Internet, yet the concepts in that book are so spot-on! He talks a lot about the "co-addict" -- the partner of the addict and how they develop tendencies / patterns / etc. that mirror the addict.

    I just found this webpage which seems to go over it pretty well:
    http://theintimacycenter.biz/partners-of-sex-addicts/

    Here is a quote from that webpage:
    Patrick Carnes describes the “co-addict,” or loved one or friend, as one who “becomes so involved in the life of the addict that he or she truly starts to participate in the same impaired mental processes of the addict.”

    ..

    From my own experience with my wife and reading and interacting with many SO's here on NoFap, it feels like every SO fits this very well. I believe the SO themselves need to go through recovery--or at least take a deep, hard look to see if they have developed any of the 'same impaired mental processes of the addict'..the longer the SO was in the relationship with the PA, I believe the more likely it is that they need recovery (even if they leave the PA on day one).

    THIS IS IN NO WAY trying to deflect any responsibility from the PA.
     
    Trappist and Jennica like this.
  13. Jennica

    Jennica Fapstronaut

    612
    1,493
    123
    This reminds me of something I had read about emotional abuse and the abused, most commonly in regards to narcissistic behaviors. Please bare with me I’m trying to remember from a while ago but basically it talked about the abused/victim picking up on the same behaviors as the abuser, outside perceptions believe the abused is the abuser and the abuser is victim. This something that is quite common and happens, “the crazy making”.
    I’m not surprised at all this can manifest in this situation. This makes sense to me, I remember the worst of it with our marriage (acting out in URL timeframe) I even stated to my hubby that “you turned me into you”. The defensiveness, resentment and contempt, I became shut off and even started to verbally talk to him the way had me for so long.

    Even though the article I had read was more extreme in nature, do to his PA he had taken on some narcissistic traits/behaviors. He even thought he was a narcissist or even a psychopath at one point in the beginning of our affair recovery. I know he’s not, even at that point I do understand in certain situations anyone has the potential to bring out those traits in themselves to a degree. As an example I also know I’m just as guilty of attempted gaslighting myself about his behaviors, couldn’t really tell you how much of it is a chicken or egg type thing though.
    I hope I’m making sense, it’s late and passed out bedtime.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  14. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,866
    143
    What you described every SO as is a co-dependent and I personally, find that very offensive. However, you did mention the year the book was written was nearly 30 years ago and Patrick Carnes himself has gotten away from the co-dependent model and now subscribes to the betrayal trauma model. There are SOs that are co-dependents, sure, but to lump every SO together and say that they are all "co-addicts" and every single one has "deep seeded negative patterns" is really a slap in the face. Personally, any book I have gotten that subscribes to the co-dependency model either goes back on the shelf or in the trash (i.e. ordered online and didn't know it stated that) because I have found that those types tend to place a lot of blame on the spouse or significant other and very rarely recognize any kind of betrayal trauma.
     
    BetrayedMermaid and Jennica like this.
  15. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    No offense intended. Those four particular words were not intended to assign any blame to the SOs.

    I too believe 100% in the Betrayal trauma model. Have you read the Betrayal Bond book by Carnes? I've only glanced at it since my wife is in the middle of it, but it is excellent.

    Sorry if anyone else took offense to my description of SOs and their need for recovery. If just the fact that SO's need recovery is offensive, again I'm sorry that's not my intention to make you feel bad in anyway. Our own CSAT therapist told my wife about a month into our therapy that she needed recovery as well. And my wife was actually shocked and surprised to realize that. But since that Revelation about six weeks ago, it has really started to help my wife dig into her background, her life, her betrayal trauma, and I'm slowly seeing her work through important issues. They have nothing to do with my porn addiction, they aren't any reason or excuse for me in anyway! But they are important life issues that I'm glad she's working through, and she will be better for it if we end up divorced or together.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    BetrayedMermaid and Jennica like this.
  16. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    One other edit/addition to my previous comment: I realize now that I am making the assumption that every SO needs recovery.... that is painting with a broad brush, and making an assumption there. There are probably some SO's that don't need to recover from anything other than hurt and pain and rightful anger.

    But from my experiences, that are only over the last 5 months or so on NoFap, many, many, many, many SO's I believe need their own path of recovery. Not because they were horrible or bad or wrong in any way, their own PA's actions certainly affected the SO overtime.
     
    BetrayedMermaid likes this.
  17. NF4L

    NF4L Fapstronaut

    I hope we can all agree that us PAs and our SOs all need healing. Just like I believe we all want and need to feel loved, weather we are deserving of it our not. The addiction has damaged us all, and even though it isn’t the SO’s problem, it most certainly affects them to one degree or another, as they are in the in the area of effect.

    Coming back to your recovery is hard topic. I wanted to mention the part that really makes recovery so difficult: questioning everything. From questioning our actions, to every choice, to second guessing if what we speak is the truth or the voice of the addict, or wonder if there is still another secret down in there. When we tell the SOs the frequency, or about the acting out, they have to question if there is more or something else. They end up going back and playing through all the scenarios again, this time you are not a hero, but a listful addict. Played by the same person, but now the intentions seem different, character flaws revealed, and things start to make sense. They have to question everything as well. Are they getting the truth this time? Have you been totally honest?

    Questioning everything eventually leads to relearning everything. Perhaps that is why it is called a reboot. I have to learn how to feel comfortable with my actions, stress, the uncertainty of it all. I constantly question if a choice I make is really me or remnants of the addict. Am I being intimate for the right reasons? Am I displaying addictive behaviors in other ways? This makes recovery difficult, as the last thing we want to do is stray from the path, and ensure we are going down the right path. It certainly seems hard, because it is difficult relearning it all. We are uncomfortable with change, and when those changes finally become comfortable there is the question of weather one is still doing enough.
     
  18. Beamer_Dreamer

    Beamer_Dreamer Fapstronaut

    52
    143
    63
    I think the majority of SO's need recovery, but not at all in the same way as we PA's do. They need to recover from the horrible lie of a life they were living and the trauma associated with that life being shattered and everything they knew being false. They have to rebuild themselves and realize what their life is really like and who they are and even who their partner really is as well as the PA finding who they are. I don't believe much in the codependency model unless they really are co-dependent. But that is only if the SO falls into the same patterns as the PA because of the PA. I believe that this doesn't seem to happen very often though. In most cases I read on here, the vast majority is betrayal trauma. The recovery for that is quite different from the PA but they can be done together. That's what Anna and I are doing. I'm figuring out who I am without the addiction and she is figuring out who a health her is. I think you were putting codependency as a part of the trauma. But really it is a different situation. To me, it's an either/or not both.
     
  19. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,866
    143
    Please don't misunderstand me. I certainly believe most SOs, if not all, need some kind of healing. To use the word recovery could just be a matter of semantics, but it could mean more. I think the word is used differently depending on the person using it. And I do believe that some SOs have developed poor behavior patterns in response to the PA's addiction and are considered.

    However, to truly fit the definition of co-dependent or co-addict, the SO would not only have to be aware of the addiction, but also enable it. To group all, or most, SOs of PAs as such is doing them a terrible disservice and denying them the help that they truly need. It's the very reason many therapists are now moving away from the co-dependency model when it comes to SA/PA, including Patrick and Stephanie Carnes. It has been proven to be very damaging to SOs.
    This is not to say that SOs can't also be co-dependent, but the large majority are not, or do not start out that way, and need to be treated (clinically) through the trauma model.

    @TryingHard2Change , you mentioned a while back that your wife had never heard of betrayal trauma until just recently. I firmly believe she would probably be much father along in her healing if she had not only known, but also had it acknowledged by the therapist and been treated for it all this time. From everything you have said, your wife sounds like the farthest thing from what a co-dependent or co-addict is.

    Your Sexually Addicted Spouse by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means is an amazing book that addresses BT and validates the turmoil SOs go through. All SOs should read it.
     
    TryingToHeal, Jennica and Jagliana like this.
  20. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I totally agree...our DDay was June 1st / we had a counselor from June - end of December, but nothing close to the quality of the CSAT therapist we found on January 1st. Since then, that therapist has opened both of our eyes to the reality of betrayal trauma.

    I don't think my wife is co-dependent on me, at all. She is, and has always been very self-sufficient and independent .. one of the traits that I was first attracted to 23 years ago. (and still am!)
    I think I am co-dependent on her.

    My wife is in need of healing / recovery / etc. but not "only" because of my PA .. in the Betrayal Trauma book, my wife told me last week that she realized that EVERY MAN in her life has betrayed her---she never thought of it that way before...and she is now learning and wrestling with that reality / what traits about herself seem to be drawn into those relationships / what does she need to do to avoid those in the future / etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    Jennica and EyesWideOpen like this.

Share This Page