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Questions to have answers to before physically separating

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by TryingHard2Change, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I debated doing this in my journal versus creating a new thread. I figured a new thread might get more exposure, and maybe there are others who might be walking through this sort of thing in the future.

    My wife and I went to see a counselor from our church last week .. we talked to the counselor for 90 minutes each/individually .. the main reason/objective for the counseling sessions are to walk through our upcoming physical separation and have preset boundaries/guidelines/agreements (as opposed to just doing it / winging in).

    The counselor gave homework: to individually write down a list of questions that we feel we need to answer before separating.
    ============================
    How Long?
    * we should agree to when we are going to "check in" about continuing the separation or not. 30 days / 60 days / 90 days .. My gut instinct thinks we should establish an initial 90 day separation; plan on checking in about future separation or moving back home at 90 days. And then plan for check-in's every 30 or 60 days after that (if the separation continues)

    Logistics
    * calling or texting before I come over..how should that work?

    * what about set dates/times when my wife is going to be out of the house? i.e. every Tue/Thu...taking a class from the local community college from 6:30PM-9:30PM .... can I stop by the house if I know my wife is not there?

    * in late October, my wife is going out west for 1 week to visit our daughter..I would like to / kind of need to stay at home..get the kids off the school each morning..etc.

    * Communication: we have not communicated very well recently...I feel like a majority of my texts go unanswered lately. If I text about stopping by or asking about the kids, can I expect a reply?

    Misc
    * I will continue to pay the bills..100% online...if anything comes in the mail that I need to know, please let me know.
    ============================

    Anyone have any thoughts / additions / edits / deletions?
     
  2. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    Maybe , what is HER goal with the separation?? She may not have an answer or one you want but just listen . Ask if you are able to be her friend from afar .
     
  3. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    I second @Qnb42078 I would think it's important to know what the goal of the separation is.

    For Jak and I (we might separate as in me moving to guest room at the end of september), the goal is to get space for Jak to learn who he is and not be co-dependant and for him to put in effort into recovery work (because that would be the reason I go to guest room if he isn't doing the work).
    Example of Goals if Jak and I separated
    Jak- Stop being co-dependant and learn to be okay (and hell, even happy) with his own company
    Me- to get some emotional safety if Jak is not doing recovery work
    Couple - to get needed space to do personal work to come back together to do couple work

    Separations should be clear as to why they are happening, what is expected, and the goal of the separation (i.e. for the relationship to be rebuilt or a step towards final separation).
     
    Queenie%Bee likes this.
  4. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    These are some of the additional questions I would have in your situation:
    • How are you going to go about explaining the separation to the younger kids, if you haven't already done so?
    • Are you going to file for legal separation? This might matter, or might not, depending on your state laws.
    • Would you both feel more comfortable with specified times when you are with your kids (sort of an informal custody agreement)? Or are you both OK with playing it by ear? What would feel best to the children?
    • Will you both attend kids' events? If so, will you sit together or interact while you're there? If not, how will you arrange who goes to what events?
    • Do you want to attend therapy as a couple during the separation?
    • Does your wife want to know if you are called out of town on a business trip? Can she help you arrange for times to talk to the kids while you're gone?
    • How will you handle any emergencies that arise (examples: sick child in the ER, broken pipe in the house)?
    • Are either of you planning to date other people during the separation? Sorry, I'm sure this one hurts, but it needs to be discussed. If yes, set some boundaries about how that will work as far as informing/introducing new people to the kids.
     
  5. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Thanks for these..some great questions to add to the list.

    I can answer some of them:
    * about the kids contacting me: our older 4 kids (teens and young adults) all have phones. The 8 and 10 year olds do not. BUT, we recently got an Echo Show .. basically an Echo/Alexa with a screen and camera. It is in the kitchen. The kids can video call me by saying, "Alexa, call dad" ... (And I can call home and say Hi to whoever is around the kitchen too.) Just today, as I was traveling home from the west coast...my two little kids video called me when I was on my layover in Denver. :)

    * couples therapy/counseling -- a definite No. We had one couples counseling session back in June 2017 (a couple weeks after DDay), where it was determined that we were not ready for couples counseling..we would pursue individual counseling, and if both parties wanted to stay married / pursue reconciliation in the marriage, THEN we would do couples counseling. (my wife is still 50%/50% on whether to divorce or pursue reconciliation today)
     
  6. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    I still 100% feel you guys need to reconsider couples counseling with a NEW counselor. It may be good for her for you to HEAR how she feels with someone guiding the conversation and vice versa . WE WOULD NOT BE HERE TODAY HAD WE NOT . I have my own therapist. Our CC recently said something really stupid , however with the relationship part of it he really helped . I can tell you if I was only seeing my therapist it’s more than likely I WOULD NOT BE WITH HIM TODAY . He needed to hear it . All of it , things I only felt safe to say with the CC . Just my opinion ;)
     
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  7. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    I'd make sure your wife is OK with you video calling. It could be a bit invasive if she isn't expecting it.
     
  8. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I second revisiting the idea of couples counseling during this separation. But from my observation, I highly doubt you will even consider it because you have a tendency to dig your heels in when you have your mind made up about something.
     
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  9. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Um..okay. Not quite sure what you mean.

    Are you suggesting that I ask my wife if she will do couples counseling while we are physically separated for 3 months (my guess at the initial timeframe)??

    I can ask her .. And I am 99% sure that she will look at me, tilt her head curiously, and say something like "We are not ready for that. We are _separating_ so I can have space and time to heal and recover...Why do you think it is a good time to start couples counseling?!?"
     
  10. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    @EyesWideOpen: I mentioned this in a different thread...the counselor from church who is walking through this separation with us -- she told me when we met one-on-one that she is hoping to meet with my wife weekly during our separation. The counselor told me that my wife has a lot to process and a lot to work through .. and she wants to help her through it. (The counselor also told me that she can meet with me at different points if I need....maybe every 4 weeks? I don't know...we didn't talk details about that idea.)

    So, my wife getting counseling ... Yes. She needs that and she hopefully will get that from various places. But Couples Counseling / Marriage Counseling .. like how my wife and I can be a better couple, have a healthier marriage together --- My wife is trying to figure out If She Wants To Stay Married To Me?!? Is THAT the right time to begin marriage counseling together?!?!? (as we are separating and planning on seeing/interacting AS LITTLE as possible with each other)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  11. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

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    I realize you know your wife better than we do but by looking at it the way you are you are already closing yourself off from other avenues to work through this.

    Perhaps your wife isn't open to couples counselling and perhaps she is. What I have had to do over the years with my SO for various things is word the question in such a way where if she decides to proceed with something it's her idea. For example you could say something like "I'd be open to couples counselling if it will help you. If at any point you feel like you would want to do this let me know." and then leave it at that.

    You have to be prepared for a negative reaction but then the ball is in her court. This whole situation has most likely made her feel like she has lost control of her life and the separation may be a way for her to get that back. All you can do is navigate the waters and see where you come ashore at the end but at this point you still have some ability to chart your course. Just don't lock it in otherwise you may miss that turn which would take you where you want to go.
     
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  12. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I will ask my wife if we can pursue Couples Counseling while we are separated...actually I can ask my wife that exact question when she and I meet with the counselor from church tomorrow (Friday).

    But doesn't that question seem a little bit wrong / off? ( to pursue couples counseling at the moment you are physically separating for a season .. for 30 or 60 or 90 days? .... likely 90 days )

    ..

    Or am I the crazy one for thinking that question is oddly-timed?
     
  13. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    The "problem" is our shared history with counselors / therapists the last 16 months:
    * we had a counselor TELL us that we weren't ready for couples counseling..instead we both needed to pursue individual counseling

    * that same counselor defined "couples counseling" as two people who want to be married to each other / who are pursuing counseling together to work on the marriage together.

    * we have both seen multiple counselors since then (probably about 5 different ones between us..in Europe and back home) -- and everyone seemed to agree with that idea..at least no one ever objected to it and insisted that couples counseling would actually be a good idea while my wife is seriously considering divorce.

    ..

    Maybe it's just semantics?!?

    ..

    Ironically, my wife and I did come together / have some rational thoughts about our current situation / and we agreed to seeing a counselor from church TOGETHER .. for the purpose of defining our impending temporary physicaly separation; helping us to define boundaries; what it looks like; etc.

    So maybe we _are_ doing couples counseling at this moment?!?

    ..

    I guess the question needs to be asked: people are suggesting to me to ask for couples counseling .. what does couples counseling mean? Is it different than how the counselor described it to us back in June 2017? ("if both parties wanted to stay married / pursue reconciliation in the marriage, THEN we would do couples counseling")
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  14. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

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    Some times odd and unexpected is the best time as weird as that sounds.

    If she reacts negatively leave it be, if she reacts positively then go with the flow. If she gives no response wait and see where she takes it. If this has made her feel a loss of control then the only way to get her back is let her feel like she has control over her life.

    Good luck my friend, this isn't easy but you will make it through this journey.
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  15. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

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    Perhaps the more relevant question is what would both of you want this counselling to mean?
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  16. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    It’s the HOW . HOW to move forward either way etc . You could go to one session and have her say everything she needs to say to you or she could clam up . Either way you aren’t worse off right ? I’m telling you if it was not a GUIDED convo with a CC I would have said all the wrong things and he would have too I’m sure . We stopped for a year and HAD to go back . It wasn’t working . We couldn’t do it alone . I was VERY close to emotionally leaving the relationship back in August. Our last session , I got balls dammit . I would not have without the counselor there . No one is saying these things to hurt you . I’ll say it again , all 3 parts of recovery HAVE to work simultaneously. Yours ( PA) / hers (BT) / the relationship ( whatever it’s going to be )
     
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  17. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Listen, I clearly remember what I was hoping for in that one 'couples counseling' session back in June 2017.

    Let me quickly recap the history:
    * June 1, 2017 was DDay [technically May 30-June 1]

    * we agreed to immediately find a marriage counselor to go see

    * we saw a counselor around June 16..our first [and only] couples counseling meeting during this crisis..except for the one last week

    ..

    I remember being so excited and hopeful/expectant about that couples counseling session...I remember writing about it multiple times in my journal (my pre-NoFap journal)..I remember being utterly devastated coming out of that couples counseling session and writing about that too.
     
  18. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    BUT YOU ARE DIFFERENT NOW ! you understand a lot more , correct ??
     
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  19. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    I think asking isn't going to hurt. BUT I do see your hesitation about timing.

    My question have you seen a real therapist not a church counselor? Idk if church counselors have degrees to practice if they do then ignore this.

    But have you seen a cmat or csat and has she been to someone who understands betrayal trauma? If you were to find a couples counselor make sure they understand PA and Betrayal trauma. . Jak and I have tried couples twice and it didnt work because no one understood the trauma in was going through and they saw me as the problem or didnt address the pain I was in.

    And I do think there are couples counselors out there who work with couples who are not sure what direction to go in... I think sometimes couples go to therapy together while they navigate through a divorce....

    So couples counseling will be what you and your wife make it. Couples doesnt mean you're reconciling it means that you two agree that you need help in figuring out how to navigate your situation.

    Just my thoughts...
     
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  20. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    PLUS , I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have “ check ins “ Together while you are physically separated . Unless she wants a divorce which she has not said right ?
     
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