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Questions about Masturbation

Discussion in 'Abstinence, Retention, and Sexual Transmutation' started by Ridley, May 31, 2018.

  1. Archangel 77

    Archangel 77 Fapstronaut

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    I have faith that God is going to give you the evidence you need in his time.

    I was agnostic atheist myself at one time, and so was C.S. Lewis, and the disciple Paul was even worse than that. God loves us all in spite of ourselves. That’s the whole point of grace.

    You are an incredibly mature and thoughtful 25 year old. I mean that with the deepest respect. Keep seeking your truth, you will find it. Don’t judge yourself too harshly, live your life and stay in relationship with as many safe people as possible.

    I wish you the best!
     
    Ridley likes this.
  2. Unflinching

    Unflinching Fapstronaut

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  3. I don't remember all the nutrients that ejaculation contains but I remember selenium and zinc were two main ones. Zinc if I remember correctly was important for testosterone production. Both selenium and zinc are also important for proper immune system function and regulation of inflammation. I suppose all that loss of nutrients could be counteracted with good diet or supplementation. But most people are eating junk food and not supplementing so they could really use some of that stuff from ejaculation.

    Nerve energy is kind of an umbrella term that covers few things - electrical charge which is generated in our cells through biochemical reactions, heat which is generated within human body, electrical potential of our nervous system, photons of light stored within our cells, etc. But generally speaking the theory is that human body is an electrical system. We need electricity and biophotons for our organs and brain to communicate as well as for our cells to efficiently communicate with each other. We need it for our heart to beat, our immune system to work properly, for our organs to work properly, etc. If our biophotons and electrical charge within our nervous system is low our body is not able to function properly which may lead to tiredness, brain fog and so on. And ultimately disease.

    There is a good video on YouBrainOnPorn.com that explains how dopamine receptor desensitization happens with porn. The same happens with excessive masturbation in smaller amounts. Especially since a lot of people don't just bust a nut and are done with it but edge for long periods of time. If somebody has compulsion to masturbate excessively then I believe edging is something that's bound to happen.
     
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  4. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    A couple of points on that:
    1. Just because some species of animals participate in an activity does not mean there is some evolutionary advantage to that activity. For example, prairie dogs often dart in and out of the streets on highways. There's no evolutionary advantage to doing this. In fact, it often gets them killed.
    2. I'd love to read the article, but the link you provided is broken.
     
  5. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    I don't know, man... Seems like a pretty flimsy argument to me.

    What does it mean to "bring Light". This concept is not explained at all in the article, so how do we even know what that means?

    How is "sexual energy" defined, and how do we measure it?

    Again, I would ask "what does this mean?", but he actually answers the question here:
    You've got to be kidding me. Is there any way to demonstrate this experimentally? How do you measure how "nice" someone is, and how do you determine whether someone has "solved a lot of stupid problems in their relationship"?

    I apologize if I sound harsh, but I'm just really not impressed by this article.
     
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  6. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    So, that (sort of) answers the question of which nutrients are contained in sperm, but it doesn't answer the (perhaps) more important question I asked: how does the body make use of those nutrients when you abstain from ejaculating? Now that you've mentioned zinc, I can narrow it down a bit: Does your sperm get broken down and harvested for zinc when the body needs it? If so, which physiological system is responsible for doing that? Which physiological system is responsible for delivering zinc from your testicles to the parts of the body that can make use of it? How does your body know how to distinguish between sperm that are ready to be harvested for zinc and sperm that are ready to search for an egg? Finally, how does ejaculation impact these systems?

    There's also a deeper issue with what you're saying here: you're claiming that zinc is a resource the body needs for immunity reasons, and that this resource comes (sometimes) from sperm. Isn't it the other way around? I.E. Doesn't it make more sense to say we need zinc in our bodies in order to produce sperm?

    There's also another deeper issue with what you're saying: With proper diet, exercise, and sleep, your body replenishes the population of sperm in your testicles within a few hours after ejaculating. Is your body really going to be damaged just because you go a couple of hours without the zinc from your sperm?

    Thanks for explaining what nerve energy is. However, again, you haven't answered the more important question: how does ejaculating reduce nerve energy in the body? There's also another question I didn't think of before, but it's also relevant: how does ejaculating from masturbating reduce nerve energy in the body in a way such that ejaculating from PVI (penile-vaginal-intercourse) does not?

    I am familiar with the concept of edging, and I am familiar with some of the science behind why edging can be psychologically damaging. However, I am not talking about edging here. I am talking about masturbation without edging, without porn, and without porn-substitutes.

    Also, I am not talking about excessive masturbation. It's quite obvious that excessive masturbation is unhealthy. Anything in excess is unhealthy. That's sort of what the word "excess" means. I'm talking about the healthiness of masturbation in moderate or small amounts.
     
  7. No. The body does not just say: "we need some zinc now, let's attack his testicles" lol. There are zinc resources within the cells throughout the body and blood.

    The circulatory system I guess. As far as I know nutrients are delivered to cells through blood.
    I don't know how it knows which sperm is ready for egg. I know tho that there is a type of a tube called vas deferens after testis where more mature sperm sits in preparation for ejaculation and that sperm which is not mature are not allowed there. Immature sperm sits in testis and matures in another tube, I forgot how it's called, which connects vas deferens and testis.

    It knows when it's ready to be harvested when it's dead, when it starts to decompose. It just dies and get's eaten and reabsorbed like any other cell does when it dies. Body doesn't just randomly kill living, fully functional sperm cells, as far as I know.
    I don't understand this question.

    Yea, we need zinc to produce sperm. But we also need it for other stuff. So if we reabsorb it then it can be used for that other stuff. If it's ejaculated then it just goes into tissue and are not used for anything at all. It's like food - we can use leftovers of peeling potatoes and make chips out of those peels instead of throwing them out. I mean sure we could do that, but it's waste. Why not just use these nutrients for something instead of just trowing them in garbage?
    Low sperm count is not an issue here. Wasteful depletion of nutrients over long periods of time is.
    It takes tons of nerve energy to produce sperm. It's exhausting work for the body.
    Not much different. This is why I do not support excessive sex either. And why I do not encourage people to masturbate if they are having sex too on regular basis. And I do advocate love making practices like karezza where orgasm is avoided. Plus it's great for building intimacy between partners when that end goal is taken out of equation.
    Well, I am talking about excessive masturbation. I never claimed that some moderate masturbation here or there is harmful. I do not believe that.
     
  8. Morefree

    Morefree Fapstronaut

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    16 years now without masturbating
     
  9. Archangel 77

    Archangel 77 Fapstronaut

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    I did not connect with this article either.
     
  10. Streets and highways haven't been around very long, as I understand it evolution tends to take a little longer. However one would imagine that the dogs who don't dart in and out on highways would be more likely to survive and carry their genes forward.
    Apologies about the link try here: https://www.inverse.com/article/23820-masturbation-health-evolution-male-female-biology-sex
     
  11. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, but you're claiming that if you ejaculate, then there is less zinc available for your body to use, which implies that your body somehow makes use of the zinc that is in your sperm. How would it get access to that zinc unless it took it away from the sperm?

    Is there any evidence that suggests that zinc gets from your testicles into your blood stream?

    The question was "how does ejaculation impact these systems?"
    So, since you're claiming that zinc gets delivered to other cells in your body from your testicles via the circulatory system, how does ejaculation impact the circulatory system.

    But I'm still not convinced that your body makes use of the zinc that was used to make sperm when you retain your semen...

    Again, you still haven't convinced me that your body actually makes use of those nutrients for any reason other than to make more sperm...

    Perhaps I should go back and edit my original post to clarify that, because if we're spending time arguing about whether or not excessive masturbation is unhealthy, then we're both wasting our time.
     
  12. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, but the point isn't about how long evolution takes. My point is that just because a species exhibits a particular behavior does not imply that such behavior is biologically advantageous.

    I agree with your point about prairie dogs that don't dart in and out on highways being more likely to pass their genes on to their ancestors, so the question is: does masturbating regularly in moderation make you more or less likely to pass genes on to you ancestors?

    Thanks for the new link. This one is working.
     
  13. I would have to say yes to that question, if sperm degrades and is less effective, then masturbating in moderation in order to produce new better swimmers with a better chance to fertilise the egg would increase the chances of carrying genes forward. What would count as moderation I don't know, I think you would need to know the science better to understand that one.
     
  14. Yes, assuming we do not replace that zinc through proper diet and/or supplementation. Like I said, some people do but most people are eating junk and not supplementing. Give you a simple comparison - if you have 10 apples in a basket you can than make a lot of apple pies from them. But if you use 5 of those apples to make apple pudding and then you throw that pudding out in garbage now you have less apples left for apple pie. Lol. :p It's same thing with nutrients in the body - if we waste them for making stuff that we later discard in tissue there is less left in body for other stuff.
    Yes, it makes use of sperm. And it does take away from sperm - from old and dead sperm, like I said, it absorbs old sperm back into body.
    I do not know. I would imagine so, because blood does flow down there. But even if zinc from old sperm, which is broken down, does not leave genitals, because for some reason there is some kind of system that prevents that new zinc from going to the rest of the body, it can still come in for sure. Otherwise after many ejaculations we would run out of sperm permanently which does not happen. So at the very last we do not have to bring new zinc from rest of our body's stores if we recycle the old one. So in the end it does not matter, cos either way effect would be the same.
    We do know that body reabsorbs old sperm cells pretty much the same way as it does every other dead cell. That's a fact of biology, look it up. Also we know that building blocks of dead cells are reused by the body. The death of cell is called apoptosis. Once the cell is dead it is broken down by it's own enzymes from inside. Then scavenger cells called phagocytes come and ate it. Then they discard the waste and recycle useful contents as nutrients. This process of how dead cells are disposed of and how their contents are recycled is well understood by science of biology. Look it up if you do not believe me.
    As far as I understood it we were not arguing about whether or not excessive masturbation is unhealthy, we were simply talking about mechanisms of it. Cos, like I said, I never claimed that small amounts of masturbation here and there are unhealthy, so there were no reason for you to assume I did. Especially since I actually did state that no, I do not think it is. :/
     

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