question from new forum subscriber

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by SamScarlet, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    Hello to all of you.

    Yesterday my husband admitted that he masturbates to music videos on youtube. I was quite shocked. Also what shocked me is how differently we feel about it. For him that is not porn, and he thinks masturbation for him is normal, and he pointed out that sex is not so frequent and he needs release.

    My husband is much younger than me, so maybe it is a cultural difference. For me these young starlets twisting their bodies in skimpy attires is not music, it is porn. Even if it is not on porn site. And it seems we feel very differently about masturbation too.

    He always knew how I feel about porn. From the beginning he agreed to installing a software that blocks it. He said he doesn't watch porn, but that he understands my uncertainties and doesn't mind having such software installed.

    But it is so strange that he always thought that "music" videos and masturbation are OK.

    I am not sure what to do. Am I crazy to think this is not OK? How can I discuss this with him?
     
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  2. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    I find the whole thing so demeaning and disgusting.

    "I am supposed to be working now. But let me search for a video of Britney Rhianna whatever. My wife will not know because it will just be some youtube on the CoventantEyes report. Let me take out my dick and have some good time. I deserve it cause she doesn't give me enough sex. Later I will tell her how hard I was working and how tired I am."
     
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  3. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    If you are not ok with it then no, it is not ok. It is a p-sub(porn sub), so same thing IMO. We have a boundary in place that says no p, p-subs or masturbation. Masturbation is not a need, it is a want. He will not die without it he may be unhappy about it but given time will get over it. You need to talk calmly with him and both may need to make some compromises regarding sex and how often. But don't let him gaslight you, don't let him make you feel crazy for how you feel. Most of the SO's here feel similar to you and will no longer stand for it.
     
  4. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    Don't be surprised. Society has desensitized us to it such that we all feel like it is normal. It is normal...if you care to be programmed by those who capitalize and profit from it.
    It's semantics. It's porn by substitution, or as @Numb says, P-Subs. It is the intent. If he is going to masturbate to it, he may as well be watching pornography. It's the same difference as far as the brain chemistry is concerned.
    THIS! If he always knew about it, yet continues to justify it, he doesn't respect you or your wishes. Maybe he needs to check out his values to be sure they are in alignment with yours if this is OK with him in spite of your objections to it.
    Well, I have my opinions on "blocking software". I prefer "monitoring software" for good reason.
    Yeah, it's like the petulent child saying "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" It's playing games with the spirit of the rule. And let's be clear. When you said in so many words "I don't like you watching porn", what part of that was a failure to communicate?
    Who is he kidding? He knows it isn't OK. Seriously, he knows.
    Boundaries & Consequences. If you need help with those, let me know. This will kickstart the discussion, and put you in a position to enforce them.
    Well, the good news is, at least you have a little sense of humor about it. Question: why aren't you giving him "enough sex"? I mean, if that's what he claims, I'd be interested to know what you have to say about it (PS ~ generally speaking, this is a rather ridiculous, yet convenient, excuse presented by the Pornography/Sex Addict).
     
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  5. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. Was it difficult to convince him to respect all three boundaries?
     
  6. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your answer. I think we have different ideas of what is enough sex. I didn't know earlier that he was not happy about the frequency... He could have acted differently about it, talked to me about it. The main factors lately were that my libido was decreasing, I was more busy and tired, and had several UTIs.
     
  7. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    It's an excuse for him to use his drug (PMO), not a reason. You have nothing to defend.
     
  8. Jennica

    Jennica Fapstronaut

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    Absolutely this!
     
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  9. +TenPercent

    +TenPercent Fapstronaut

    Absolutely this! So well stated.

    I saw a music video while at the gym today - nothing too risqué, but sexy dancing and outfits. It may as well have been porn. Had the same effect on me. And, obviously if he is masturbating to it . . . it may as well be porn.

    @Numb , OMG I need someone with that mindset in my life! I'm single, but if I get a gf, can I have her talk to you?

    All my previous girlfriends either didn't say anything or said that my looking at porn and masturbating was ok. The one gf who did give me grief about porn, was totally supportive of masturbation. I have even had female friends argue with me that I should be masturbating! But, as you said so well, it is not a need, it is a want.

    Nothing good comes from p, p-subs or masturbation and I would really like to be in a relationship where those boundaries are crystal clear. I am struggling with this addiction, but I need someone in my life to remind me that those things are not ok.

    I am really grateful for this community and to know that there are a growing number of men and women who are becoming aware of how destructive P and M can be.
     
  10. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    Does it make sense to offer him that if he feels strong need for release, he should come to me and I will do that for him? I feel that that might help against masturbation, but at the same time, I am sort of pissed and not really in the mood to offer such services.
     
  11. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    Then NO! Because he isn't doing it out of love and intimacy. He is doing it out of addiction. You will be enabling him. Besides, it won't stop him from masturbating.
     
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  12. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    No. He will be using you for a masturbatory aid, not because he wants to be intimate and connect with you.

    The best place for you to start is to set up some boundaries to protect yourself, your heart, and emotions. Choose consequences that fit the boundary and that you are willing to stick to. He will more than likely resist and try to gaslight you, telling you that you are treating him like a child and punishing him. But they aren't punishments towards him, they are protections for you.

    Here are a couple of links to help get you started...

    http://adammmoore.com/2014/06/12/defining-and-enforcing-boundaries-in-sexual-addiction-recovery/

    http://awiferedeemed.blogspot.com/p/our-plans.html?m=1

    He needs to relearn what real intimacy is. A hard 30 - 90 day reboot would be good for him, with no P, no P-subs, no masturbating, and no orgasm for that amount of time, if he is willing. It will help to reset his brain chemistry back to "factory settings." You can read more about this on yourbrainonporn.com , as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  13. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    It took 15 years of lying and me nearly leaving for him to take it seriously. But since the last time(and it will be the last time one way or another) he has been doing very good and has no problems with these things. He is doing a lot of work, though there is still a lot to do. But we are working on it.
     
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  14. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    15 years, oh... I am sorry.

    Do you find yourself counting the days since last time you had sex, and thinking: oh no, we are at day X, it must be getting hard for him, I should have sex with him. Doesn't that make you put pressure on yourself regarding sex, and doesn't that make it less spontaneous and more like obligation for you?
     
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  15. SamScarlet

    SamScarlet Fapstronaut

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    Also one more question if you don't mind: how do you know? Porn can be filtered, blocked, monitored, but porn substitutes are absolutely everywhere, and masturbation is easy and quick for men. Isn't it too easy for a man to do them in secret?
     
  16. +TenPercent

    +TenPercent Fapstronaut

    I am interested in hearing Numb's reply, but if you don't mind I will share my thoughts:

    Yes, masturbation probably is pretty easy to do in secret. Sadly, a lot of things can be done in secret from one's spouse, but the guilty party is only cheating themselves out of having a better, trusting relationship with their partner.

    From what you wrote, I think it is very promising that your partner told you how he masturbates to music videos. I would think that most men would be embarrassed to tell anyone that, so the fact that he told you means that maybe, hopefully, if you ask him to stop masturbating completely, he will be honest and tell you if he slips.

    I have an idea that might help (or it might be crazy). Earlier you mentioned a compromise that would mean helping to satisfy his sexual needs . . . but it wasn't really something you wanted to do. If he is respectful of your desire for him to stop masturbating (especially to thoughts or images of other women), but he is having a hard time stopping completely and you don't want to feel pressured into having sex - what if you made some sort of compromise? By this I mean, maybe it would be okay if he masturbates but only if ______________ (whatever would make it okay for you).

    I dated a girl once (not long distance, but medium distance - about an hour's drive so we only saw each other a few times a month) who sent me 4 photos of herself (no nudes. One was in a pretty sexy outfit, but all were clothed. One was a face shot) and she told me that it was okay if I masturbate, but only to those pictures or thoughts of her. I also had to ask permission first. That way she knew every time that I did it and what I was was thinking about. It worked for both of us and it helped me to learn that the only way to do it respectfully is with permission.

    This is just my opinion, but I think that masturbation shouldn't really be a part of any relationship. If it is done, then it should be done together, or with full disclosure. If it's done in secret, it is unhealthy. It is a form of infidelity. Some religions ban it all together. It's obviously something that we can live without.
     
  17. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    Also one more question if you don't mind: how do you know? Porn can be filtered, blocked, monitored, but porn substitutes are absolutely everywhere, and masturbation is easy and quick for men. Isn't it too easy for a man to do them in secret?[/QUOTE]

    The first question made me chuckle a little. Not at you, more at me. That isn't an issue for us, I would like sex much more often then my BF. And even times I am not quite in the mood I get there quickly enough. I enjoy being with him at any time, it has never felt like a chore or obligation for me. When I do count the days it is more it is more about 'it has been X days, why isn't he interested?' type of thoughts. If more than four or five days pass I start to worry and over examine his behaviors to see if he has slipped up without telling me. I'm sure in time those fears will lessen.

    As far as how do I know he is being honest? I guess in the end I don't, I have to trust. It was a lot harder earlier on. But I know by his actions and behaviors. I don't block anything, I did in the past out of desperation but it never worked. If they want it they will get it one way or another. Now we have monitoring software, I can check it if I think things are off. P-subs are absolutely everywhere, if he wasn't serious about quitting there would be nothing at all I could do about it. I know he is being honest with me because of the way he is acting now. He is much happier, open(for him, he's working on it) he listens, is more loving, less defensive. Our sex life has improved, though there has been some bumps, the PIED (porn induced erectile dysfunction) is gone. He is also doing the work, journaling, email work and looking for a therapist. We talk more. There are just a lot of little things, some things I didn't realize were because of the PA.

    This has been a very hard journey, full of hurt and heartbreak. But we are working on it and on us. Things are so much better, even though that hurt will always be there. In the end he has to want it, he has to admit it is an issue and he has to respect you and himself. He needs to be honest.

    I feel that masturbation for a PA is very bad and should always be avoided. I feel that m has no place in a healthy relationship, though I know others feel differently. There is no reason a person can not wait for sex, just because you get an urge doesn't mean you must act on it. I stopped m a long time ago because it didn't feel right to me to do it by myself. Even if it felt good there was no pleasure in it.
     
  18. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    I wanted to add, another thing my BF has done was read a lot on PA and SA. He had bought a lot of books to read and has been on this site for a while. He started with the site yourbrainonporn.com. I think the reading has helped him along and to understand.
     
  19. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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  20. IAmLegion

    IAmLegion Fapstronaut

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    I'd just like to state a few obvious factors here, but mind you- i have no intention of appearing judgemental or condescending. That said, let's start :D


    Two things to be noted here.
    1. You were shocked, meaning this was new to you. Why was it new? With age comes biological maturation and one of the first physiological manifestations of that appear through the instances of fluctuations in libido. This was a topic you should have discussed and considered a long while ago.
    2. "Surprise" isn't an excuse for your shortcoming here. Of course the same thing can be said about your spouse but at least he found a (rather unhealthy) way to circumvent the issue, using his most primal instincts as his guide. It is by NO means a healthy thing to do, but that's his natural response to the situation. You can't just point fingers at him now. That's his response to the sexual enviroment you provide (and yes- also the same environment HE KNEW he was getting into).

    Failure to discuss things like this in depth are what haunt you today. Admittedly, both of you were at fault (probably naivety or ignorance; i'm not accusing anyone of intentionally overlooking it) but only you are the one paying for it today. And sorry to say but you need to live with that. Later down the road, if he encounters issues, he'll have to deal with them too.
    But yes- you can most certainly discuss things with him. Just don't expect him to agree; his end of the deal is working out just fine.


    Two more points to mention here.
    1. What kind of replies did you think you would get, asking such a question on a community dedicated to eradicate masturbation? Obviously everyone will agree but I'll be the moral scapegoat here and say that's a very biased statement to make. Most men are just fine with masturbation... right up until they realise they aren't. And it's his call to decide whether or not masturbation is a good habit for him or not; not yours. Mind you; i am in no way saying it is healthy- i'm saying it's his choice whether or not to accept such decisions. Again. Poor communication in this field is why you're in this situation today. Sorry to say, but in all moral sense- that's his call; not this community's or yours. As a matter of fact- unless he accepts that fact himself- he'll never be able to build the steele to quit anyway.
    2. Sex is not frequent. That's a very valid argument to make and I fully understand that's not exactly your "fault". You have your own biology as well. The same logic from my previous point applies here, just in your favour. He has to understand that:
    (i) sex with him is not your job
    (ii) you have your own sexual needs
    And it seems like he moved on just fine through wanking. Again- not your call either.


    Two more points:
    1. You are absolutely right. Cultural differences are a factor but not the only factor. It's also his sexual preference. It's the bridge between your declining libido and his youthful urges.
    2. This is just a reinforcement of your poor communication on this matter.


    But not masturbation. And that's the real issue here.

    Not indecent music videos.
    Not porn.
    But masturbation TO indecent videos.

    Tell me this- do you mind it just as much if he just watches these music videos? Or do you mind the fact that he uses them as material to masturbate? And in all moral sense- you can't restrict him on that matter. Sure- covenant eyes apply to you both- however the meaning of such a limitation is drastically different for you two. For you, it's a given. You don't have much libido anyway. No porn makes little difference. But for him- it's more than just no porn- it's no masturbation too. And for a man 10+ years younger than you, it's all the difference in the world.
    Again- poor communication is why you're here.

    Just understand that maybe he's not making excuses. Most of this community has experienced only that end of the spectrum. There are many for whom such behaviour is inherently normal and not a slick means to the same end.

    You are imposing something on him that you simply can't relate to anymore. And that' downright unfair. This decision is his own only.

    But the fault? Where does it lie? In both of you. Equally.
     
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