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Question for partners of PAs

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Deleted Account, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. I think how it might help is that the addict didn't make a calculated decision to do things to hurt his partner. From the outside it looks like he hates her, wants to hurt her, is planning his next attack, etc. (with some that might be true...if they're sociopaths) but in reality he just let the wrong side win. The part that if there was a surgery for it he would love to just have it removed so it wouldn't be a constant battle inside between what he knows is right and what his body( for lack of a better word) wants to do.
    I guess its like someone who can't seem to lose weight. They usually didn't gain weight to hurt their partner, they don't keep eating unhealthy to hurt their partner. Whatever they do or don't do that keeps the weight on is because it fills a need for them. But they don't like what is happening to them. It just doesn't feel as personal as sex because its not between two people. But the desire inside is the same. He us doing something to make his body/emotions/other-side/addict feel better, but it isn't reasonable or calculated. It feels like a war so it's hard not to see two sides. So a partner seeing their PA SO as losing a battle rather than attacking them makes you more inclined to join them in the fight than to defend yourself.
    Still, he is responsible for what both sides do and has to find a way to control it.
     
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  2. Oh I completely agree. Denying yourself is completely unnatural and not easy.
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  3. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Probably.
    When my SO said I'm a addict.. It blew me away because as a addict I know about addiction.
    In our almost decade together and my almost 20 years sober I could understand the world of a addict.
    He sat up all night to explain his behavior and that was his response.
    So I absolutely come from a different place.
    Then again, I think we all do.
     
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  4. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    I think I do have empathy for him. I understand that he didn't feel good about himself, and I know why (childhood stuff). And I know that he used that as an escape. He was numb and didn't feel feelings. The dopamine was the feeling, the escape, and likely felt even better because he was so numb the rest of the time. I get why that would make him keep going back for more, even if he felt it was wrong and was shameful about it. I just don't see that as a separate part of him.
     
  5. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Well, the addict is still part of their makeup, so they still have a responsibility for their own recovery--it's not a Get Out of Jail Free Card. But remember, if we're describing the addict the same way the 12-steps do--as someone who's powerless over their behavior--it does give them a bit of relief as a moral agent. There comes a point where the brain chemistry has been so altered that it overpowers the addict's free will. This is one place where I respectfully disagree with @Broken3 ... there are very few addicts who get better by sheer force of will, or by simply making a choice. (Addicts cannot choose to get better in the direct sense--they can only choose to get better indirectly, by admitting that they have a serious problem and recognizing they must have outside help.)

    By all professional accounts, addicts' brains have been hijacked. Their brains don't operate normally. This isn't terribly different than people who are on drugs like SSRIs, ambien, etc. Look at the list of side effects of these drugs, and it's easy to acknowledge that someone might act differently under their influence than they would otherwise.

    If you've never experienced what it feels like to be repeatedly drawn to a behavior that you hate/love/hate, it can be hard to understand the reality of addicts. But if we agree with professionals that their brains have truly been hijacked, we can understand that these behaviors aren't coming from their true selves. It's like there's a little man in the pleasure center of his brain, pulling the strings.

    Let's be clear--no man feels good about himself sitting around for 6 straight hours watching porn. No man decides "hey! I think I'll waste my life today! And while I'm at it, I might as well break the heart of the person I care about the most!" That kind of compulsion is driven by something deeper and more powerful than basic cognitive reasoning. Most sex addicts hate their addiction at the foundational level--they only "love" it and return to it over and over because it's proven to be a sure-fire, temporary relief for whatever bad feelings are being avoided. And when the brain gets rewired for that after years and years of conditioning, it takes enormous effort to undo it.
     
  6. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    OK I see what you are saying here, and this helps. I do view it as him making that choice, he knew it would hurt me (because we talked about it), and he did it anyway. After that, we talked extensively about it, I told him I couldn't have it as part of my marriage, he chose p-subs at that point. That feels even worse, he knows what was at stake (me leaving) and chose to do it anyway. That feels like a calculated decision. He says it wasn't, he didn't think about it before acting. I feel he should have, etc. But yes, with your example I can see what you mean, he didn't do it to hurt me. But where I have trouble is that he knew it would, did it anyway, that it wasn't enough to STOP him from doing it again. Like him doing it again was a greater need than his need not to hurt me. So it feels on purpose. It makes me feel like I don't matter and am not important to him That is also is how I felt when my dad was an alcoholic, then cheated, broke our family up... his need to drink and to be with someone else other than my mom was greater than my emotional well being and splitting up our family. I felt I didn't matter and wasn't important to him. I get that it isn't that simple now, but that is how I felt as a kid.
    I guess I am just not seeing this the right way, or understanding the addict. I mean I get it in my head that it wasn't that, but it FEELS like that when I hurt, you know?
     
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  7. Well do you see it as a weakness at least? Can you compare it to one of your own weaknesses that you'd like to change? And therefore can relate that..your weaknesses don't define who you actually are. Your "true self". They are a flaw to be worked on and changed.
     
  8. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    I see what you mean now. By the two parts, you are meaning the one part is his normal self and the other part is the hijacked brain? I didn't think of it like that. That chemically his addiction has taken over his brain and the way he normally would think. Thanks, that does help.
     
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 likes this.
  9. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    Thank you, yes I can see it as a weakness. I do have my own weaknesses. I guess the one he "picked" just hurts so much more because it feels so personal.
     
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  10. I don't mean it's a choice in the sense of "I choose not to do this" & poof magically no more issues. You have to make a choice that this is a problem, decide you don't want to be like this and actively do something about it. It all starts w a choice and you have to continuously choose to strive to be better and feed the right things. I do think you need to makes recovery steps as well to heal and dig into root causes and reasons. It's definitely a process but I think some can get lazy with. Whenever I mess up I do get on myself big time. I don't feel sorry for myself or get caught up in making excuses. I forgive myself and strive to do better bc I know I can.
     
  11. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Yes! Exactly. And don't worry about this mentality giving him a free pass--he still has the free will (and responsibility) to get outside help and to recognize that he has a real problem. But what he doesn't have the free will to do--at least not with a hijacked brain--is to "make better choices" or "try harder". As much as I loved Nancy Regan, when it comes to addicts, "Just Say No" doesn't work.

    Gary Wilson's short book "Your Brain On Porn" is a gold mine of information about how porn hijacks a person's brain chemistry. You might check it out sometime.

    And those are textbook examples of addiction. What possesses some people to lose their life's savings in a roulette toss or a hand of poker? What could possibly cause a person to have multiple DUI convictions? Why would a man repeatedly risk his marriage, family, and half of his assets for 15 minutes of pleasure? These questions boggle the mind because there are no logical answers. Addiction is outside the realm of reason. Reason has been hijacked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
    KevinesKay and (deleted member) like this.
  12. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut


    Thank you. This is helpful. I actually have that book, didn't read it though. I ordered like 10 books on this, that is the only one I didn't read. I think I will. :)
     
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  13. I think it would be very hard if not impossible to feel this way. You have some really tough stuff to deal with. I'm sorry :(
     
  14. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I think this might be a poor example. Mothers tend to be the prime example of the most unselfish beings on the planet. We stash candy because the little urchins eat us out of house and home and drain our souls. The chocolate keep us sane. :p

    Seriously though, I don't separate the two either. We've been together well over half our lives. He's been a PA since before I knew him, I just didn't know it. (I know, I feel insanely stupid for that.) So my entire relationship with this man is not with two separate parts; it is with him, all facets of him, the good and the bad. I recognize that he did not set out to intentionally hurt me with this- most of the time. There were times he did, after initial discovery and he flat out lied and continued his behavior. But not separating the two will not keep me from healing or moving forward. The only thing that will stop that is continued relapses. Then we have a problem. I think viewing them as two makes it too easy, both for me and for him to not hold him accountable.
     
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  15. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    I have 5 kids.
    So I thought it was a great example.
    3 of my kids are disabled.
    If I let my SO crutch on the "I need a little"
    I'd be out of the home.
    Mothers are unselfish.
    I'm working.
    I'm cooking.
    I'm cleaning.
    I'm doing home repairs.
    I'm doing IEP and 504s.
    If it were as easy as cookies, I'd tuck some away.
    I'm not that kind of person.
    I've always included him.
    If he relapsed at this point, I'd just leave.
    Because there is no excuse for it.

    Different techniques tho... And respect.
     
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  16. the mechanics of addiction work the same no matter the substance or behavioral addiction. problem with porn is it is literally everywhere and easily accessible.

    Compounding the problem is that a sex addiction does so much damage to a relationship b/c it's about sex. While the mechanics are the same the stigma can be greater for the addict and the collateral damage worse for SOs Sex itself is about trust, pleasure, sharing, identity, preference, intimacy and fidelity. So a sex/porn addiction fucks all of that up in a way that's hard to repair. Cheating is a horrific amoral act b/c it wrecks the foundation of a sacred vow two people took. So I think for some SOs it's hard to take it as a chemical neurological process that overrides morality and common sense. Everything originates from the origin--the spouse.

    Addicts see The Addiction as a separate entity, a demon trying to possess our bodies or a separate brain in our heads fighting us. No matter how hard we try--just. can't. stop. It's a defense mechanism--I can't fight an unseen enemy. But if I can give it an identity, make it more corporeal, I can knock the shit out of it (hopefully).

    SOs don't see that inner struggle inside. They see the ripples in the pond. "No I don't want sex (because I jerked off 6 times already today)," "I'm sorry I can't get it up (b/c I jerked off 6 times already), "I don't feel like cuddling (b/c I'm a shitheel for jerking off 6 times today)." The Addict and the Addict Demon are at the SMAe point of origin. And niw we're dealing with sex which = trust, intimacy, fidelity and we just blew all that to hell. For the SO it's not a sequence of neurological pathways being altered by unstoppable process addiction--it's a volatile of the sacred words spoken long ago. It is a betrayal. And betrayal beyond its actual catalyst or pathway or mechanism is still betrayal, and one of the hardest things to forgive, move past and heal from. Betrayal as we all we it does not come from demons or addictive brains or reshaped neurons--it comes from a person we love and spoke the words to.
     
  17. I believe there are more than two "parts" to any human. We have many "selves".

    Just throwing this out there. Humans are more complex than a simple dichotomy.

    Yes, addicts (and sex addicts) do compartmentalize, and I have seen many "parts" in my husband.

    Anyway --- for anyone interested --- here's a link to IFS theory. Addicts of any form (drugs, alcohol, sex, etc.) are the "firefighters":
    https://www.selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html#Managers-Firefighters-and-Exiles

    The firefighters try to extinguish the emotional or physical pain.
     
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  18. Addicts often 'need' to hit some type of bottom to stop. It's horrid, but it's reality. I've heard addicts telling their stories. One that I remember was about a man who killed a kid with his car when he was drunk. That was his bottom, and hasn't had anything to drink since that horrid event.

    I believe many of us see the struggle and it's freaking hard for US and for the addict. Heck, I saw the inner struggle with my own eyes when my hub was trying to kill himself with 3 modes of suicide at once. Yep - that's graphic, I know. He had no psych history. He is a high-achieving, highly educated professional. I'm grateful I was on my game enough to find him and intervene and he's alive today b/c of my actions. Yep - guys - it CAN get THAT bad. Major Depression is a pretty big deal.

    I never had ANY clue about the inner turmoil he was feeling --- to THAT extent. I knew his job was beating him up WAY WAY WAY too much, but there was MUCH more going on. I'm extremely perceptive and intuitive and I just didn't know the depth of his emotional pain. And, of course, he didn't share that with me.

    Yes, I have PTSD due to the horrific trauma I experienced over 18 months ago. I'm suffering a great deal. But my husband is alive - so I wouldn't change anything that I did.

    Just thought I'd share what one "bottom" looked like.
     
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  19. Glad you both made it.
     
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  20. Thanks. My husband is doing much, much better.

    I'm struggling w/ the PTSD. Talked with my therapist yesterday and at least she has some empathy for me. She asked, "Who has YOUR back?" (No one.) I'm not the "typical" PTSD client, either, if there is a typical. All of the traumas are "entwined together" (her words) b/c they all happened within a short time period, rather than being separate events.

    She's helping me to ground myself and it works at times. She is trained in Somatic Experiencing, along with extensive experience as a therapist. I need to go easy on myself and be "okay" with small steps.
     
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