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Porn starts as a refuge and ends up a prison.

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by PaleAle76, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. PaleAle76

    PaleAle76 Fapstronaut

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  2. WillSquirrel

    WillSquirrel Fapstronaut

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    I like how you titled this thread. I read on nofap all the time of people who are starting to realize how they have used P to feel the loneliness they have inside them, instead of finding comfort in a real person.

    In America blackcurrants are illegal to grow because thay carry a certain fungi that kills pinetrees. So the currants look good even taste good but are poisonous to the environment around them. Because the fungi kills the pinetrees the blackcurrant plaint becomes isolating form the other trees. However, in Europe where there's not as many pinetrees blackcurrants are just fine and don't hurt the environment around them.

    Physical love has a place and that's between people who love each other. P has taken one of life's greatest most intimate gifts we have to share with each other. P has turned sex into something bad. Now those of use who are coming out of addiction are seeing how we have hurt everyone around us. How we have hurt our spouses children friends and how much we have missed out in our own lifes.

    Just like the black currants when people miss use sex it destroys the environment around them isolating them from those they love.:emoji_chipmunk:
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  3. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    This same idea came up in a post @bike-wrench made on my journal yesterday.
     
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  4. Loveless

    Loveless Fapstronaut

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    The ideas being exchanged on this thread are really interesting. I've been thinking a lot about projection lately. My SO said that his PA was a symptom of him feeling like crap. Guess what? While in the grasp of PA, he made me feel like crap.

    I had been depressed because he had long excluded me from any kind of sexual dimension in his life. And he was reaching for more and more extreme kinds of P, and that addiction was a kind of prison, one that he eventually asked for help to escape. My SO's big mistake was to put me in a static and unchanging box and decide that that's where I belong and that's where I'll always be (a prison), and think of P as always changing and novel and interesting. But while P caters to the desire for novelty, it isn't about personal growth or experiencing life or discovering new dimensions in yourself or your SO. Quite the opposite. Jacking off in a prison of endless links and downloads because you feel like shit about yourself, then making your wife feel like shit. That is hardly novel or interesting. It can hardly be called living.

    If anything comes out of the hell that has been the last 3 months, I'd like for it to be the realization that people grow and change, and part of the reason we develop relationships is so that we can grow and change together and learn new things together. Life is a big adventure and scary sometimes and rewarding sometimes. Navigating that adventure with a lifelong partner should be a meaningful experience and a goal. Why create these self-made prisons and project them onto others? The P industry helps with the creation of these prisons by presenting itself as a form of self-discovery, so its really on the individual to make meaningful choices to be a better person and grow, and hopefully also grow in one's relationship with one's SO.
     
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  5. PaleAle76

    PaleAle76 Fapstronaut

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    I've been thinking a lot this past week on how porn has tainted all of my relationships… not in the sense that I was replacing my SO's with PMO, but because the secrecy, shame, and underlying guilt prevented me from truly being there. I guess I'm lucky in the sense that it never progressed to that point… to where I would turn down intimacy for PMO, as I see now how it can lean down that path. And so much of that I think has to do with fears of rejection, shame, hopelessness, and apathy. Porn is just so easy. And immediate- its like the Terminator looking after John Connor… always there, always ready. Its easy to retreat to that when you know there is no fear of rejection… and that is addictive in and of itself. It is only natural for humans to protect their egos… and as my fiancé has pointed out, man have incredibly fragile egos. Part of that is biological, but I think another part is societal pressure. Men define themselves to such a large extent on being verile, strong, and desired, and society reinforces that notion just as it does with women. Girls are taught from a young age what is considered desirable- a thin waste, large chest, perfect completion… And porn takes these ideals to such unrealistic levels it can't help but warp the minds of those who consume it… especially at a young age. Thank God I didn't grow up in this day and age… I'd probably never leave the house. Porn is an insidious by-product of our wired culture… a world of information at your fingertips. With all of that information out there, around 15% of internet searches are for erotic content… clearly there is a biological urge to procreate, have sex and propagate your genes. But porn takes this biological necessity and perverts it into the laboratory equivalent of a mouse frantically pushing a lever for another hit of cocaine. 5,000 years ago when getting enough calories to survive was the primary concern for people, eating high sugar, high calorie food would help you survive. Thus our bodies are wired to crave sugar, fat, and carbohydrates. Its the same thing with sex- we're wired to crave it… to want it. If we didn't, the human race would never have existed. But now, just as with the abundance of food and the obesity epidemic, the abundance of sexual outlets is becoming a larger and larger health issue. The difference is that with obesity, the discussion is out in the open and the public is aware- some states have even tried to impose a sugar tax to try and curb over consumption- the same tactic states use with tobacco and alcohol… tax it, raise the cost for the consumer, and thus discourage its consumption from an economic perspective. But alcohol and tobacco are largely socially acceptable. Porn is consumed for the most part in private and in secret… masturbating simply isn't discussed. Does the state have a responsibility to regulate the internet porn industry? And how can we start to have an honest discussion about it when its intentionally kept in the dark?
     
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  6. Loveless

    Loveless Fapstronaut

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    These horrible past few months have shown me that for many people sex is associated with feelings of shame and self-loathing. Like you say, porn is easy. It doesn't judge. It doesn't reject anyone. On the contrary, it flatters people with fragile egos. It rewards them by suggesting that they are adventurous, liberated, and naughty and all the other vanilla people in the world are boring and uptight. But that is porn advertising itself as a rewarding, fun, harmless pastime, when in reality each click generates profit for someone and potentially leads down a path of addiction and alienation.

    I know that my SO experiences strong feelings of shame and self-loathing. He hates his body and thinks he is fat and unattractive. I've never said anything about his body. But he decided this about himself, and he projects his own feelings of disgust so that "everyone in the world" thinks his body is objectively ugly and undesirable. He also has hangups about his fetishes and has built up lots of shame around them. So in his view, the world judges him for his ugly body and shames him for having a damaged, disgusting brain. But porn is a refuge that doesn't judge. It welcomes him with open arms and offers endless links and downloads...

    Last weekend I totally shut out my SO. I decided that I was done with our relationship, so I ignored him all Saturday morning. He asked for a kiss and I turned my head away. He got so upset that he went upstairs and opened a folder on his external drive where he saved porn (he confessed to opening the folder, then shutting it; he did not open any files and he didn't watch anything). I don't know if he was acting out ("I'll show her!") or if he was running to a "relationship surrogate" who is always ready and willing. Whatever it was, he was astounded at his own behavior and told me that he is going to share what he did with his therapist. I was impressed that my SO confessed and that he had this moment of introspection: he realized that he had a bad pattern of behavior that used porn in anger toward me, or as a surrogate for feelings of acceptance after he had thoroughly alienated me with his addiction and lies. There's nothing fun or rewarding about any of this. Having hangups about himself didn't give my husband the right to alienate me and make me feel like shit, nor did it justify lumping me in with the "judgmental world that thinks he's ugly" so that he could have an excuse to run to the fake comfort of porn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  7. PaleAle76

    PaleAle76 Fapstronaut

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    I think him telling you of his reaction is a step in the right direction... perhaps he his starting to see the motivations behind his behaviors...
     
  8. Loveless

    Loveless Fapstronaut

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    I hope you're right. He needed to have that moment of realization about his behavior (after literally months of blaming his behavior on me).
     
  9. PaleAle76

    PaleAle76 Fapstronaut

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    I’m sure it will be hard, but make sure you encourage him whenever you see him making progress... it will make a world of difference if he sees that you are seeing his effort.
     
  10. PaleAle76

    PaleAle76 Fapstronaut

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    Day 9… of no PMO. The break from intimacy is over- the fiancé and I broke down last night and had sex… not planned, things just sort of lead into it. All I wanted was a back rub! It felt right, though. It felt like we were connecting on a level we haven't been on in a long time- and I know that is because I have been partially absent from our relationship until now. We hadn't really discussed a firm timetable for refraining… we had kicked around the idea of waiting until our wedding next month, but that might put too much pressure on both of us. As far as the 'chaser' effect, I guess there has been one. Not to PMO, but to feel that connection again with my fiancé.
    I brought this up with my therapist today, and he seemed to think it was fine- so long as I am positive my motivations are in the right place… he used a phrase I hadn't ever heard before, but I think its a very good one: "Make sure you're not simply masturbating with her vagina." That was kind of an eye opening thing to hear, because I know I have been guilty of that- and I think that is probably true with a lot of PA's. We convince ourselves that we're being intimate, but in reality we are using our SO's as an outlet.
    Speaking of my therapist however, I don't think I'll be going back to see him. This was only my second visit with him, but I immediately started to feel like he wasn't really present. For starters, his phone kept going off during the session… which I felt was incredibly distracting, unprofessional, and disrespectful. He spent most of the session discussing a self assessment he wants me to do- a FOR FEE assessment… and he never mentioned the cost. Now, my thoughts on this are that I am already paying HIM for these sessions, because I already KNOW I have an issue. Why should I spend more money to take an assessment? Isn't that I am paying the therapist for???
     
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  11. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    This is a great insight.
    On porn, sugar, alcohol, tobacco, economy and media.
    Just... Fantastic.
    It's often why I stray away from discussing any of these topics with many people.
    I do believe not so much in conspiracy but in regulation.... As in import export and to have those, who do you think monitors or controls?
    The country of South Africa is a good example of a known example of this.
    America is better run... So probably a "less" known example.
    But our toilet paper isn't even completely American made and is a import..
    So... Could taxes play a role?
    Absolutely.
    Because lots of things are gapped in knowledge for the average person today.
    That's a big problem.
    We learn about what we need to know... And the world is big enough now, we only need to know about what is relevant to us. (or what we think is relevant)
    We are all experts of our own lives.
     
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