PMO addicts,shame and secrets

Thank you everyone for the comments in this thread. It have given me much to think about.

One point I have noticed is that everyone in this thread is using the male as the PMO addict and the female as the SO. But there are many women addicted to PMO, and I have read more than a few threads (in fact I would say the majority) of undue shame and guilt because one is female and it is seen as somehow being worse to be addicted to PMO than if a male. It does not help to label people as being more deviant and not accepting as they as, and we should avoid this behavior.

I do not think anyone here is talking about lying, at least I am not. If someone asks about past PMO use, or any addiction, then yes, I think it should be answered. But not telling someone something (and not intentionally hiding it) is not lying. GG2002, I'm not clear on what you are saying, because you intersperse mentions of lying and hiding things with not mentioning it. And you seem to mean that it should be the case with all addictions.
So eg, say someone was a former smoker. How and when do they bring that up when in a future relationship?
I am not in a relationship now. How and when do I bring up my PMO addiction? Presumably it will come up naturally during a discussion about sexuality, is that what you mean?

You seem to be referring to my latter comment; yes, that's why I said, "but I don't know if it is possible."

I disagree with calling something "vanilla porn" as if it is more acceptable. There are people here who have very serious, deep addictions to what you might call "vanilla porn", deeper than an addiction to what you or someone else would consider a weirder porn, and it not only minimizes their problem, but suggests that other porn is worse. Porn is porn, and the effect in the brain is similar regardless of what type of porn it is, and in fact, it will not be distinguishable from any other addiction, whether it be drugs, etc, when looking at the brain.

There are many women addicted to porn and this is sexist, but besides that, you can't see it as choice that someone brought on herself. The internet is full of images and almost everyone gets exposed; it then deepens unconsciously. Almost everyone only discovers it is an addiction after they have been hooked, and as you all know, many who are addicted do not realize it is an addiction. What is the difference in 2 persons who are similarly exposed and one has some neurochemical changes occur in the brain, as a reaction to what is seen, and the other one doesn't. I don't call it a choice. But yes, you have to take responsibility for what has happened.

This is like saying, I would not date someone with blonde hair. Yes, that is a choice, but very superficial. It wasn't always known that smoking was bad. After it had just become known, would it be fair to refuse to date someone because she was addicted to smoking? Even if she then realized with everyone else that it was bad and she wanted to quit? I think you are stereotyping all PMO addicts because of personal experience.

This brings up the stereotypes around PMO. If people knew that they were going to be accepted and seen accurately with their addiction, they would be less likely to have the shame and guilt and want to hide it, and actually would be more likely to successfully give it up. But because there are societal stereotypes, which you are perpetuating (that PMO addicts are bad, otherwise how can you say that one can be justified in not dating a former addict), this makes it harder to be open about it, and creates legitimate reasons to not want to disclose everything.

 

@GG2002
Disclosure is only needed if the problem is still ongoing in secret.
Otherwise it just brings up unwanted pain from past memories and also distrust between both people in the relationship.

 

Well those people need to work on their inability to see past things for what they are, and look at the person from a non judgemental point of view.
Instead of holding a metaphorical grudge to people mistakes.

Forgive and forget is the message here.

 

Except they aren't.
They are both secrets, both which can harm the over person or cause distrust.

 

How is disclosing information the same as a lie to you?

A lie would be to say no I don't have an addiction when you do.
Merely disclosing info is not a lie, it's just s choice made by the person who has the info. Besides you wouldn't even know if info is being discolsed unless you specifically ask. And even then it's not a lie to disclose.

 

Other than the fact I've watched P for 13 years and I've realised I'm an addict last year and joined this place to better myself?

No I don't know how big a deal it is (sarcasm).
You are seeing this from a very biased one sided view, and that's the problem.

With no regard for the other perspective.

 

No its denial.

Your whole argument is an unfair one.

If it's a past addiction then you don't have to know jack all.

If it's a current addiction then yes by all means you should know.

Would you like your partner to ask for a weekly summary of your spending?

No...because would you?

 

There are a couple of points here around what is and isn't reasonable in what one expects from a relationship. It's worth noting that this is an entire personal call it's not for me to say you can't refuse to date former smokers, or porn addicts, or anyone who earns less than 100k, or anyone shorter than 5'6, etc. And it isn't hugely helpful to debate this.

What is worthy of debate is what is reasonable to expect a partner to submit to, and to get an insight into how the other half might feel about things. For example, we've learned that most addicts who've discussed here (and I think it's fair to assume the addicts talking here, given they're here, are mostly interested in basic levels of honesty) don't view it as helpful to discuss the gory details of their viewing history. This may be useful for an SO, to know, to better empathise. On the contrary, we have an SO who's been betrayed, who now wants full information rights (I'd be curious as to how other SOs in similar positions feel, but anyway). It's probably useful for some addicts to know that their partners may be less comfortable with them having a private self, in some cases.

 

Another thing I want to say that I feel is important is this.

@GG2002 you have said that part of the reason you want to know things is so that you can effectively participate in the interest/fetishes with your partner right?

Well too me this isn't healthy.
If a man or woman in a relationship has or still has been watching fetish porn or has a specific interest. It's likely caused by escalation from "safe"/"typical" porn. It's not a good thing to transfer what our minds imagine from watching/watched, into realities. It can seriously mess up an addict further.
Because very often the types of porn people watch are not indicative of their true sexuality. Many addicts will toss one off to porn they immediately feel sick about. When you come off that Rush of dopamine reality kicks back in and you feel crap because you know you aren't actually into whatever you watch.

So encouraging participation in fetishes with your partner based on the porn they watch/watched is not a good thing to do.

 

Yeah, there may genuinely be things the PMO addict is inherently into, but it would definitely not be worth exploring til after a full reboot and, even then, care would be beneficial in terms of not forcing embarrassment of things they are truly ashamed of (unless you feel you need to know about that for different reasons).

 

Agree to disagree blah blah.
Neither of us will change our minds.

 

You raise fair points.
And it can be a risk to have secrets, only if they are found out however.
I think the questions you raise would be relevant if the addict is still and addict. If they've moved past that part of their life then there will be no cause for concern.

As for secrecy though, I can say first hand and many others here that as an addict you learn to be extremely covert.

I can even say first hand that in a way I've lived 2 lives. Me and my pmo addiction. Nobody I know IRL knows or had known of my past addiction for all these 13 odd years. Even to this day recovering from porn addiction for this last year and a bit, I still haven't told anyone IRL.

 

Thought you were gonna go all Matthew McConaughey in Time To Kill for a second.

But well said. I've found your perspective really useful to read and I would certainly encourage addicts whose SO's feel betrayed to consider your points

 

Through certain circumstances that arose, i have told several friends and family members about my struggle. Some got the basic info, others got more details. No one has gotten every single detail. But ive told each enough to provide an accurate picture.

I can say that its been very helpful getting outside perspectives on the struggle in general and some of the details in particular. Helped me get out of my head a bit and not feel as shameful. It had to come out somehow.

And a few people ive told admitted struggling with it at some point themselves.

These are all men, though. Im not sure, especially as GG suggests, that most women would be as forgiving or compassionate.

That said, i think i will acknowledge to any woman im seriouz with that i had a general struggle that i overcame. And then assess what details she requests and how best to respond.