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Partner in need of perspective

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Lanarra, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Lanarra

    Lanarra Fapstronaut

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    Hi everyone,
    I'm new here. I would appreciate interaction with men who have struggled with this, and partners that have walked with them through that.

    I've been married for 28 years and am very much in love with my husband. He says he is still in love with me too and is very convincing on that point. In the last ten years or so, there has been periods where he is into porn every night. I get frustrated because after a while of this, our sex life begins to suffer... he wants to do it less (since he just blew his wad in front of the computer, he hasn't anything left in energy). He begins to have some troubles with erection, or just not being able to orgasm.

    I start trying harder, getting into sexy lingerie, trying to initiate dialogue on what kinds of things we could try to push borders and explore new things. We went to a swingers club twice (had sex with each other, but I don't feel comfortable having sex with others- don't mind if he does in that environment, but I think he just didn't know how to initiate there, or felt weird doing it if I don't).

    The last period of it, I basically started drinking nights where he was hooked, because I could pass out in bed in front of the tv and not sit there resentful because I want connection with him.

    I got him to talk with me about it a few days ago. He was very ashamed and said he thinks he has a porn addiction. I basically don't think watching porn is abnormal for a man, but he insists he has a problem (which frankly makes me worry- does that mean it has gone beyond watching vids on the screen?). He says he has had it since he was 11 and created a board of cut out naked female images to masturbate to. I still am not sure that indicates a problem. But there is the way it seems to cut into and corrode our sex life.

    I am not an overly controlling or complaining wife! I am not uptight about porn, though for some reason it doesn't do a thing for me- I am sensual, I prefer touch and real humans. But I understand men are different.

    What makes a man decide this is a problem? How can we talk about this (he sensitive and ashamed, I don't want to harrang him). Does it lead to infidelity? Does it make desensitize men to real life sex? I just feel lost and confused and a bit scared for our relationship. I admit to feeling a bit insecure as a result of this, though I am a fairly attractive woman still. I used to be very beautiful, but am 50 now, so.... can that be a reason for a man to turn to porn? His wife aging?

    I don't know. I have so many questions. He isn't very good at introspection and putting his emotions in words. Not that he isn't just as complex as anyone else inside... he just doesn't come from a family that talks deeply about anything and so doesn't feel confident in that area. I appreciate when I can get some aid understanding the male mind and body from men that are just a bit more used to putting it into words. If anyone can help me, I'd be grateful!
     
  2. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    Hey there, porn can be a problem. For some men it's simply watching every once in a while, for others they use porn to escape and numb out (and often use multiple times a day or every day at least, or for hours on end). The symptoms you describe from your husband having a long time to reach orgasm is called delayed ejaculation and is a side affect of porn addiction. If he can't get hard it's called porn induced erectile dysfunction and will be able to keep an erection with you once he quits porn for a couple months I believe.

    My husband was at the very beginning of PIED. He quit before it got bad.

    And porn can be very dark. Now, I know some women don't mind porn, but when the women find out the man has been watching rape porn for instance or facial abuse or transporn, or teen, or god, I don't know what else, I'm a bit naive to the genres and don't mind that. But the thing with porn addiction is the man needs more extreme genres as time passes to get the same high feeling. So maybe your husband starts with vanilla but eventually because it's an addiction needs a more extreme genre to get the high starts watching gang bang stuff or rape etc.

    Porn can turn healthy sex into unhealthy sex, sex devoid of emotion and connection, and can use a woman as a means to get off instead of wanting to be with the woman emotionally. So porn can train a man to use women as sex objects.


    Let me just say this before I go further: You are not the problem. Doesn't matter if you try lingerie, are more open minded, it's not about you lacking anything. It's about him wanting to escape. It's not that you are not beautiful and amazing in everyway. porn addiction is about the addict.

    Porn addiction can lead to sex addiction. Once porn loses it's appeal, they can escalate to cam girls, or dating and hook up sites, or prositutes, or stip clubs, or full on emotional and physical affairs. So porn is not harmless when it comes to an addict.

    The fact that it is affecting your relationship negatively means porn is a problem. He chooses getting off to porn over being with you, that speaks for itself that it's a problem. If you're drinking to not be upset, that's a problem.

    His addiction to porn is negatively affecting your sex life, your connection, and his ability to stay hard and orgasm. That makes porn a problem.

    Ina different relationship with a non-addict it might not be, but it sounds like he is addicted. One way to know is if he can't stop. You already are seeing the negative consequences, and if he truly cannot stop watching, then it's an addiction.

    Yes, porn can make a man not want or enjoy real sex. Hence not being able to stay hard.

    He could be having a "death grip" which means normal penatrative sex won't be as um, it won't feel as good or have as much sensation as it would have had he not been masturbating.



    Again, it has nothing to do with you. Even at 50 I am sure you are beautiful, and I hope your husband see's that. But when in porn addiction it makes the addict say things they wouldn't normally say. For instance, one addict could lvoe his wife but once really heavily in addiction adn porn fog could look at his wife and not see her as beautiful because he has brainwashed himself to only be aroused by airbrushed and surgically altered women.


    I hope I have helped you, if you need any other information feel free to reach out. In my signature there are many resources that can be very helpful.

    I wish you luck in this!
     
    Trappist, Xander74, Loveless and 7 others like this.
  3. Lanarra

    Lanarra Fapstronaut

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    Thank you! I really need to talk with someone, and I don't have anyone close I can trust.
    Actually, he did something during lovemaking the other day that freaked me out and I wonder if it isn't coming from going into some more weird porn...
    I was on top of him and right as I climaxed he gripped my throat and caused me to have trouble breathing. He did it gently, and it just caused me to have a headrush. He asked me after if I liked it, said he read about it. Now, I wish he had spoken to me about it BEFORE, and we'd never done anything like that. It was harmless... but it kind of scared me because I am aware doing asphixiation play can get out of hand and have serious consequences.

    I feel really down. I hope we can work through this. We have three grown children, two grandchildren (another on the way) and have had a really good marriage besides this. I don't know if I can stick through this. Part of me wants to run away, another still has hope. I switch between the two many times in a day.
     
  4. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    I get it, it can be very difficult to talk about this with people in your life. My husband came out on fb about his addiction and lost friends, and his family and friends blamed me and said awful things about me, so it's good to be cautious about who you tell or if you tell.

    Then that could be porn inspired. My husband once asked me if he could do something (it was very degrading and very unlike him) and I had no idea about his addiction at the time but said no and that it was degrading. Often times men grow up on porn and aren't aware of well their natural likes and often think that what porn dipicts is what women like.

    So maybe he watched porn that choked women and he thought women like that?

    And yeah having converations about what you are and arne't comfortable with sexually is important. My husband and I have had many conversations (I've had sexual trauma's and certain things still trigger me) and so we agree that certain things we don't do or won't do until I know I am fully ready. And my husband is pretty vanilla so there are things he doens't and won't ever do, so it's a good idea to have a talk about sexual likes and dislikes, especially if you think porn scenario's are starting to enter your bedroom.

    It's normal to be confused at this stage. Because I know a lot about addiction, I was willing to stay given he worked recovery. But for most they are in shock and aren't sure. Often times it's recommended to wait a year before deciding one way or another to see that the addict truly is changing and moving forward.
     
    GG2002, Loveless, Jennica and 4 others like this.
  5. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    Amazing response ❤
     
    Kris456, GG2002, Loveless and 2 others like this.
  6. A new day

    A new day Fapstronaut

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    I really want to help you to detach your sense of attractiveness from his porn use. They are not related. I definitely understand how this can make you question yourself. I’m the wife of a PA and it’s been devastating to be replaced by a screen full of perfect young women.

    This is an addiction, which by definition eliminates any kind of logic in the users behavior. In a certain sense this addiction isn’t even the fault of the user. It’s extremely sneaky. Additionally it carries a stigma that is harder to overcome than substance abuse which often has a social element.

    With the advent of high speed internet it’s become an epidemic. His brain now craves ever increasing hits of dopamine that porn can easily and with little obvious consequences give him. But eventually leads to less attraction and less normal response to live sex because it’s rewiring him that way. It also leads to a slew of other issues with anxiety and depression. Both of which can keep him in a vicious cycle.

    I’d recommend you take a look at yourbrainonporn.com. Ask him to watch the videos that explain the biological and psychological components. He’ll have better results if he understands the pitfalls of rebooting.

    Meanwhile, you may benefit from looking into books on the subject for partners of PA’s. You’ll need support that you likely won’t want to get from people you know.
     
  7. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    When my wife delivered an ultimatum in 2010, stop porn or lose me, I knew I had to stop. I have great will power so I stopped. Then I relapsed. Then I stopped. Then I relapsed. It went on like that for a while until I realised I was addicted. I define addiction as (1) something is bad for you, (2) you want to stop, and (3) you find that you cannot stop. By that definition I am a porn addict.

    I hope not. For me it meant I recognised I was not just using porn, I was addicted to porn.

    This is hard. I really value it when we talk about my progress, I feel supported, but it is very hard for me to bring up (even though I know my wife is supportive). I have found the forum posts here a very useful hook to open up a conversation. I can tell her about something I read and from there we can open into a discussion about where I am in all this.

    No. Although many of the wives and girlfriends here (significant others - SOs) think of porn as infidelity. But no, it did not lead to infidelity for me. I was tempted by prostitutes but I never caved in. I think I knew that would ruin my life. I did enjoy cam girls, and that was further than I should have gone towards infidelity.

    In the midst of our addiction we like to think we have it all sorted, that we are still great lovers. But that's addict-talk. It does desensitize us. The good news is that it all comes flooding back, literally ;-)

    No. Your husband said he started on this path when he was 11. How old were you then?

    There are some men here who are amazing at it (check out some of @anewhope's posts) and some men who are shockingly un-self-aware (I won't name any names!) I'm in the middle. One thing I have found is that journaling here, supported by the amazing people here, has given me a real opportunity for introspection. I have learnt more about myself in the last 470 days than the previous decade. Writing it down also helps me to find words. One other thought, reading the pain of the SOs here helps me to feel less defensive when we do talk.

    Do you think he'll come here and journal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  8. Lanarra

    Lanarra Fapstronaut

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    Uh... I apologize for not responding to you guys sooner. Thank you for your input. My husband told me everything. Apparently it isn't porn. He has been living a secret life for ten years. He goes to swinger clubs at least once a week, and has been involved with a couple for two years. I'm destroyed, we're divorcing. I asked if there is any possibility of going back to a more traditional type of life, but he cries and claims he has no power over it. He says he loves me and has through it all. But if he has no desire to stop, and I don't want to join in (it's just not for me) then it's over. Tonight he asked me about this site, and I gave him a link. But it seems it all went too far and he is hopelessly hooked. I cannot believe I never guessed. I am an idiot. I truly believed we were a loving and close couple. It was all lies. A life of deception. So I guess I won't be back here- he's way past porn and I won't be supporting him. I'm going to focus on trying to survive. thanks for the kind responses.
     
  9. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    That’s a heart-breaking post. I know you face some tough times but I wish you all the best, and I hope you find the strength to rebuild your life and your self-esteem.
     
  10. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

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    Oh goodness I am so sorry. You were not an idiot and this is not your fault. Addicts are liars and are selfish. His ability to hide this from you speaks to how sick he is. You can be proud that you have had a kind and loving heart during your marriage and did things the right way. You have lived with integrity and no one can ever take that from you. Bloom for women has wonderful videos to work through to help after betrayal and you are absolutely welcomed to come here for support.
     
    Kris456, Jennica, SpouseofPA and 2 others like this.
  11. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Usually, a man decides he needs help when he reaches a crisis point. He's caught in a web of lies, or his wife finds 100+ porn searches on the browser history, or he gets arrested for masturbating in public, etc ... but generally speaking, a man decides it's a problem when he realizes that 1) it's causing him destructive, negative consequences, and 2) he can't seem to stop, regardless.

    Just be willing to bring it up. But always preface it with non-judgment. Make it more about wanting to be a help to his recovery, and less about how much it's hurting you. (I know, I know ... a lot of SO's here will take issue with me saying that. You have every right to come at him with comments about how hurt and betrayed you feel, but chances are that will just amplify his shame and make him even less likely to ever discuss it). The real benefit of 12-step groups like SAA is that a struggling addict can be 'rigorously honest' without fear of being judged as an awful person. If you want open communication about this issue in your marriage, I think you have to create a similar environment of safety.

    Not necessarily. That depends on a lot of factors, like his upbringing, his psychology, what kind of porn content he's been watching, etc. For instance: If a man grows up in an emotionally disengaged home, if he gets his validation from women, and if he's viewing amateur porn, swinger porn, and hookup sites for the most part, then I think he's much more vulnerable to infidelity.

    If he grows up in a fairly stable home, gets his validation from somewhere other than women, and looks at porn mainly as an escape from boredom, he's probably less likely to cross that threshold into full-on infidelity.

    I agree with what @AnonymousAnnaXOXO said, though--porn addiction (like all addictions) tends to escalate in frequency and severity. If left unchecked for many years, there's no telling where it could lead to.

    Not always, but it's very common for that to happen. "PIED" or 'porn-induced erectile dysfunction' is a pretty common term you'll see here.

    Your insecurity is totally natural. Who wouldn't feel that way? If I was married to a woman who was obsessing over images of more attractive, more endowed men who were 20 years younger than me, I'd feel insecure, too.

    But no ... a man's wife aging is no excuse. Any man who does blame his wife--for not being pretty enough, sexual enough, fit enough, curvy enough, young enough, etc. etc. etc.--is really just blaming his wife for his own lack of self-control, or his own unwillingness to address whatever issues he might see in the relationship. Myself and every other porn addict here will tell you--his behavior isn't about you.
     
  12. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    I'm so so sorry. I should have read this before I wrote all that other stuff out. :(

    I'm glad you're taking the steps you need to take in order to protect yourself and move on. Please feel free to come back here if you need any more support.
     
  13. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am so sorry to hear this. Sorry i did not get to answer your earlier post sooner, but yes i think that PMO addiction can lead to cheating in many cases, not all but many. Some men make excuses and say they used porn because their partner turned them down. The reality is that men that view porn addicts or not on a regular basis are more likely to cheat. I understand your decision to divorce. I would do the same thing,and props to you for having that strength. It is not your fault, most of us also got duped, and believed the lies. This has nothing to do with you. I hope you can move forward. I wish you the best.
     
    Jennica and Hopefulgirl like this.
  14. Lanarra

    Lanarra Fapstronaut

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    Hey,
    I'm in need of talking or writing about this.
    After a lot of talking, I eventually decided I would try to stay with him. The reason is that he claims to be a sex addict, started with porn and escalated. He says he suffers from it and wants help. We found a therapist that specializes in sex , which he will start seeing Tuesday. I'm trying to reap all kinds of aid and support for us, because I am afraid we're in for a long and bumpy ride.

    Honestly? I am not convinced it is addiction yet. I have the feeling he just said that to gain my sympathy and avoid accountability. I have to wait for a proper diagnosis.

    After my doctor suggested he did it because I wasn't fulfilling his needs at home, then our best friend said the same thing. This is the woman that he had been filming nude without her knowledge. It hurt so bad to hear that from her in particular! (I didn't tell her about the videos, but I have them). This is a felony in this country, so if I expose those, he'll most likely go to prison.
    When she said that, I lost it. Up to that point, I've been struggling alone in silence, being calm and rational with him, even comforting him. But in that moment I started punching walls and screaming, kicked through a door, and injured my hands. He wailed and cried, hitting himself in the face and begging me to believe it was not my fault.

    I haven't slept for days. Sometimes I sleep an hour or two, but tonight, not even that. I watched the sun come up. He had to go to symposium for three days. He texts me throughout the day, he takes pictures of himself wherever he is to prove it. We call each other at 3am when neither is able to sleep.

    This is total, total hell.

    I find myself staring out the window all night, thinking. I spend the daytime cleaning out the extra email accounts he had, taking down his adherence to various sites, seeing records of such a long exploration.... it hurts. Putting blockers up. He's asked me to help with this and has been giving me all his passwords and stuff. He is being transparent with me and swears he is dedicated to recovery.

    I'm starting to think the repeated accusations that I was not fulfilling him enough are true. I hit menopause at the time he started anonymous sex bingeing. He probably felt I was no longer feminine (even though I am still considered a very attractive woman by most people) but it must have influenced his attraction to know I am infertile. Also, as the porn got worse and worse, I was putting a lot of effort into trying to seduce him, a lot of sex games of new sorts, but as he still was stayed caught up in the porn, my self esteem began to plummet, and my efforts continued, but were more sad and desparate than confident. Sad and desperate is not sexy. I may have pushed him to take it a step further to real sex with strangers because I was getting so repulsive.

    I have to accept a part in this. I was trying too hard.
    I have no idea how we are going to rebuild, but we've sworn that's what we want to do. But I can't see any idea of what that will be like. I just talked to him and he doesn't quite think it is addiction now, more like hypersexuality and impulse control problems. But in the last week before this was revealed, he'd been taking bigger risks - looking through porn while me and our two sons were in the same room - just on the other side of the computer screen. Even he doesn't understand how he got to that point.

    I'm kind of feeling suicidal. There really is no path to choose here that would calm the pain. Stay.....leave...it remains a impossible anguish. I think I was addicted to him - even in the midst of all this I want him, desire to be in his arms. Its completely irrational.
     
  15. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I am so sorry that you are going through this. This is NOT your fault; you did not ask for this; you did not push him into porn or anonymous sex or any of that.

    The total instability you are feeling is normal. I encourage you to continue to write your thoughts out here on NoFap .. there are so many helpful, caring SO's that have gone through similar circumstances--they are extremely helpful and wise.

    Do you have any close friends that you trust that you can talk to in person?
     
    Jennica, GG2002, Kenzi and 1 other person like this.
  16. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I am so sorry you are going through this, @Lanarra . You must know this, and bury is deep within your soul: NONE of this is your fault.

    Your doctor is wrong, your friend is wrong. He is absolutely responsible for his own behavior, every single act. It matters not if you were willing to do anything he wanted, whenever he wanted or if you refused him for 15 years. He started with porn and the addiction slowly escalated into needing more and more.

    Keep coming here, write your thoughts and feelings, let us be here for you. You have done nothing wrong.
     
    kropo82, GG2002 and TryingHard2Change like this.
  17. PaintingToday

    PaintingToday New Fapstronaut

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    I created an account just so I could reply to this because this sounded too familiar —I have a feeling I might be headed in a similar direction unfortunately.

    My husband was also into porn and couples (at least TRIED to be lol) and god knows what 5 years ago but swore he quit everything when we got married 4 years ago. I’m 56/he’s 61. We’ve gone through counseling and he cries and promises he’ll quit blah blah blah.

    Frankly I’m so disinterested in him that I really haven’t paid much attention but I hit a motherlode this weekend.

    All the old feelings are back. I’m too old for this!!!! I’m a very attractive 56 for crying out loud and I refuse to have anyone make me feel like I’m not good enough but that’s exactly what this does and I hate it. I hate him for doing this to me. I know myself well enough to know I will not forgive and there’s zero chance of forgetting and a HUGE chance of some eye-for-an-eye action (or at least me sitting around dramatically plotting something with my girlfriends!)...if it’s more than porn this time I’m going to tell him to go ahead and call the fire department because I’m going to go BIG this time.

    I seriously need a pizza all to myself tonight.
     
    GG2002 likes this.
  18. Lanarra

    Lanarra Fapstronaut

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    I hear you! We're still struggling so bad. It doesn't seem to be getting better from my side. He seems to be abstaining for the moment (but it has only been three weeks.) He had an appointment with a therapist, I arrived there ten minutes before his session was over and was invited in. The therapist started out with "You need to consider that masterbation is not a sin...".
    I said, hold up- and described the whole story of what he has been doing. The therapist looked at my husband in shock and said, "THAT has NOTHING to do with what you told me!" Then he continued to question us both and eventually told my husband, "I am quite sure you are addicted to porn and sex. There is Cognitive Behavioral therapy that can help you. But at this point, don't bother. You will waste time and money. You obviously have not decided to recover, because you are minimizing it, making excuses, trying to keep doors open to continue it."
    We left with that. Nobody can help us until he truly decides to stop.

    He still swears that he is going to stop without aid, and blablabla.... He basically says whatever he thinks I want to hear. He IS having some lucid insights into his other personality problems - that he is narcissistic and emotionally immature. My three kids have been telling me for years that he is a narcissist and I am being his Echo, his supply. I always made excuses for him, pushed away the idea. But now it is painfully clear that is true. He wants to start being less narcissistic, but here I am feeding it, comforting and caring for him, blaming his behavior on myself in whatever twisted logic I can come up with. My kids are all congratulating me this morning on finally seeing the light on that. Even if he does want to change, my continuing to feed his childish narcissism is going to make that impossible.
    So my mission this morning is to disconnect from his problem and take care of myself- go see friends (who I've been avoiding, because this issue is so embarrassing). He did allow me to decorate a room in our house however I want. (that is how bad the control has been- in 28 years, I have never been allowed to choose decoration in our home).
    He has always had control over all our finances, so that I never could see any of it. Now I took over all our bank accounts, the taxes, cell phone bills.... I don't know what is going to happen between us in the end, but I am starting to not care. It isn't worth it. He isn't worth it.
    The only thing that is keeping me here right now is our kids worrying that if he doesn't have me, he will just sink into his addiction further and end up in jail and/or financial ruin. But if he can't get a hold on himself (so to speak) then maybe that is just where he'll have to go.
     
  19. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    So TRUE!!

    ..

    Check out the book Bold Love .. It is definitely Christian-based, but I think the concepts are still good (if you are not religious)...a quote from the description of the book:
    Dr. Allender writes “It is unpredictable, cunning, and creative. It is a violation of the natural order of things. In many cases it will unnerve, offend, disturb, or even hurt those who are being loved. But in the end it will also compel them to deal with the internal disease that is robbing them (and others) of true beauty.” So if it feels like you’ve turned the other cheek so many times your head is spinning, it’s probably time to take a second look at your practice of love. Because there’s nothing redemptive about a love that just accepts people for who they are.
     
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