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PA’s, help me understand

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Torn, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    I think you might be greatly underestimating the addict's ability to compartmentalize. In full-blown addiction it can be very easy to change gears as if we were flipping a switch. It doesn't mean that the connected, bonded experience meant nothing ... it just means that we're really messed up and need help.

    Recovery happens in degrees. "A full reboot" ... what does that even mean? By what metric would you declare if someone was "fully rebooted?"

    I know a man in my SAA fellowship who has taken a 5-year chip on three different occasions. Meaning, he had 5 years of sobriety, lost it ... got 5 years again, and lost it ... and then got 5 years again.

    This addiction isn't black-and-white. There's no finish line, no medal where they say, "you've done it. You're recovered." An addict can bond and connect to the degree that he is actively in recovery and making progress. I would never say "there is no possible way he can truly be bonding." If full recovery needed to happen for addicts to bond and connect, then we would be without hope.


    (disclaimer: I use "you" and "your" a lot in these comments, but I'm speaking about SOs in general)

    That's totally fair. Your comments sound a lot like some of the other partners I've come to know here. I think you're totally valid to have those feelings.

    But what is your end goal? If the end goal is to divorce your husband, shake the dust of your feet and go find someone else to spend your life with, then resentment and bitterness pose no problems to you. But if you're actually wanting to see your marriage live through this and flourish, you have to recognize what types of things drive the addictive behavior, and there's no bigger driver than Shame.

    When I was 23, I was engaged to a 30-year old (I must say I felt pretty studly). At that point, I had only been with one woman in my life. My addiction was truly limited to PMO. For the first few months after I shared it with her, she was my biggest cheerleader. But when I wasn't making progress as quickly as she wanted, that encouragement quickly turned into condemnation. "You're not a man of God ... you're not a man of integrity ... you're not who I thought you were ..." etc.

    I know she was hurt. I'm not taking that away from her. But there I was ... already feeling horrible about myself because I was using PMO which was against my values to begin with ... but now, on top of it, the woman I was certain I wanted to spend the rest of my life with was heaping on even more shame. "The most important person to me thinks I'm a horrible person." Not surprisingly, instead of victory, my addiction escalated. I'm not blaming her, mind you ... but I am blaming the shame.

    Many times, these rejections are what addicts expect, and it's why so many keep their addictions secret for so long: they're certain that disclosure will lead to rejection, so they keep it bottled up. The thought is, "I don't have to tell anyone, because this was the last time and I'm never doing it again." But of course, they do. Over and over.

    You've suffered serious betrayal. You've had your heart ripped up into pieces, perhaps repeatedly. You have every right to remind your husband of that as often as you want. But if that's the path you choose, you shouldn't expect to see your relationship heal very much. If you're not interested in healing it, that's totally fine. But I'd encourage any SO to consider what their end goal is before they embrace their resentments too strongly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  2. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I know you are right about that. I am not only underestimating it, I am not understanding it. I absolutely understand it is the addiction, but this is probably THE one part of it I cannot wrap my head around. I don't know that I ever will. Changing gears. Flipping switches. I don't get how one minute it's love for the real person in front of you and the next minute it's lust for the fake people on a screen. I mean, I get when there is a time span in between, but not when there are just hours, sometimes just minutes. That just screams to me that the addict is simply going for the dopamine hit in sex and not for the real intimacy that the partner is. But the addict more than likely isn't even aware of it. Heck, most of us aren't aware until discovery happens and then it all comes crashing down.

    Apparently I'm not good at explaining myself on this forum. haha. What I mean by full reboot is not "cured" by any means, but far enough into a reboot for the fog to lift for the addict to think clearly and be able to truly the see the consequences of his actions, but in the past and in the future. This is a different time for everyone. It goes along with my comment above, about not really being aware that they aren't connecting like they think they are.
     
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  3. This is why the 90 days sober is important and the reboot is so essential gotta get the head clear and the brain rewiring. Recovery does come in stages--months, years even. Addiction of any type is a hard beast to kill.

    And yes it is hard to grasp how an addict can be loving and in the moment one minute and jerking to fake women the next. I think part of it is once that initial dope-hit from real sex is felt the brain is fielding for more-more-more and puts the addict into. "Dope Mode." This is why going sober from all sex is important for addicts, just like an alcoholic quitting booze or a gambler staying away rom tables.
     
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  4. DIYAS1

    DIYAS1 Fapstronaut

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    For me: After a night or a weekend of great intimacy and sex with a girlfriend I would often masturbate excessively. Usually this would be utilising fantasy to replay our sex and sometimes that would be supported/reinforced with porn usage. It was a way for me to recapture and continue the sexual high from partner intimacy. To keep the feelings and arousal going for as long as I could. On a positive side it felt like keeping that partner intimacy alive in my head and my body. I think the porn adjunct was more from habit. Now I am rebooting it will be interesting to see how I handle that situation.
     
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  5. Every porn addict has a real problem with intimicy.
    The system of the addict sais:
    intimicy = scary, dangerous, risky.
    But
    PMO = safe, "I am in control" confident.

    So after a risky time of intimicy, he needs some "safe sex". Of course this is the other way around. But that's
    actually how it works.

    Does this make sense to you?
     
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  6. seaguy44

    seaguy44 Moderator Assistant

    Well-said! Exactly right! Addiction doesn’t mean not loving the woman. We really don’t have any control so that’s why 90 day sober is so important. Urges are incredibly so intense that not many SO can really understand how addicted we are.
     
  7. Elias Smith

    Elias Smith Fapstronaut

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    Hey, EyesWide Open, I can't explain everything. But I can tell you that your SO did enjoy sex with you. I can also tell you that even as a PA, I know and I feel that there is nothing better than satisfying sex with my SO.
     
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  8. STAR DUST

    STAR DUST Fapstronaut

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    yeah chaser
     
  9. STAR DUST

    STAR DUST Fapstronaut

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    YOU ARE ENOUGH. IT IS HARD TO FEEL LIKE YOU ARE ENOUGH WHEN A GUY DEMONSTRATES OTHERWISE. SIMPLY PUT, IT IS AN ADDICTION, AND IT IS ONE THAT CAN RUIN A RELATIONSHIP. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WOMAN, AND IT LEADS TO RELATIONSHIP BREAKDOWN, AND SELF DESTRUCTION.
     
  10. STAR DUST

    STAR DUST Fapstronaut

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    I HAVE A QUESTION. DOES YOUR SO STILL RELAPSE?
     
  11. DIYAS1

    DIYAS1 Fapstronaut

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    Agreed. For me the chaser effect happened after getting home from time spent with my girlfriend and making love together where I want to continue those good sexual feelings by fantasizing over the sex we just had. For me the chaser never involved porn. It may be quite different for others though.
     
  12. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    Not in 51 days
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  13. I'm wishing you to stay PMO-clean for the rest of his life!
     
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