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Open Discussion; Why Lie?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by LowKeeKee, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. LowKeeKee

    LowKeeKee Fapstronaut

    I'd like to try to open up a discussion panel of sorts to bring some minds together and hopefully we can all help each other.

    I've struggled with being a liar since a young age, it's a deep set self preservation instinct that I have a hard time getting past. In a relationship there is no constructive reason for self preservation. Open honesty and clear concise communication are what are integral in relationships.

    I went back and read all my journals from D-day to today, and I've noticed that my overarching problem, the one thing that has repeatedly been a knife in the heart of my relationship with my SO is dishonesty. My largest indiscretion is omission. I hide things and hope they go away, but every single time I've done this it has come back to bite me and cause even more of a problem in our life.

    It's always something simple, like "Baby, I relapsed today and M'd in the shower" but I could not say that, I made up a scenario in my head where coming clean about what I had done would upset her and make an argument. This is probably true, we very well could have had a minor fight about this, or we could not have, I'll never know because I chose to hide it until she asked me about it weeks later.

    Talking to my therapist, he has told me that I have not been comfortable with confrontation or the prospect of confrontation in intimate/personal life. If I view possible negativity I close off/shut down to avoid projected confrontation. This is not right, it's not at all healthy, if there is one living person I can feel safe talking to, It is my SO, she is always supportive and open, and WANTS to listen to me. She wants to hear everything and know what is going on.

    What I want to discuss with everyone is this. Why do we choose to hide things, why do we rationalize the fact that a few uncomfortable moments, maybe one day of fighting, is somehow worse than a relationship crashing revelation, something that could fully break our partner's heart because we are too self centred to be up front about simple things?
     
    Trappist, Numb, hope4healing and 4 others like this.
  2. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Simple. It's shame. The PA, isn't really worried about the SOs response; the PA is ashamed of their actions. Once they realize their shame is the TRUE barrier of transparency (not how your SO will react), difficult conversations will be an amazing growing opportunity for the couple.

    Just my two cents! Good topic!
     
  3. First, I want to say that it's nice to see a PA who is able to not only recognize this as an issue for you, but you're also willing to admit it and seek help to correct it. :emoji_thumbsup:

    I'm not a PA myself so I can't speak from that perspective, but I've been with my PA husband for over 25 years (married for almost 23). Many PA's say that they have a difficult time admitting things to their SO because they know the truth will hurt them, and, for the sake of the relationship, they want to avoid the arguments that inevitably follow the truth coming out. You'd like to think that, by not telling them the truth, you're protecting your SO, their feelings, and your relationship. That sounds much better than the fact that you're actually keeping the truth from them to protect your addiction. But, I believe most of the time, it's more for that reason.

    I understand that some people have cultivated the habit of lying right along with the growing addiction since it seems to be an integral part of it. Others may have been liars before the addiction came along, and therefore, may just be better at it. Either way, it appears to be a major issue in terms of recovery. I know of several PA's (my husband included) who continue lying about all kinds of things even after they have abstained from PMO for a time. You'd think that, as it becomes less 'necessary' to lie/hide/deceive, it would actually happen less. However, for whatever reason, some PA's continue to be dishonest the same way they have all along.

    Maybe those who were habitual liars prior to becoming PA's have more difficulty with it? For those whose lying developed along with the PA, do you think it's easier to return to honesty the farther you get along in your recovery? I think this is a great topic for discussion as it often seems to be a major hang-up, especially for those in relationships. As you said, relationships thrive on honest, open communication. On the same note, addictions thrive on secrecy. For those who truly want recovery for themselves and their relationships, it shouldn't be so difficult to make honesty a part of it.
     
  4. For me, at least I told myself, that I didn't want to hurt her. She can't really understand it - she'll just take it personally when that's not at all how I feel. That this was something that I needed to get a handle on without her, and soon I'll have it under control, and then we won't need to talk about it, and I've saved her some pain. Which really was just a double lie. I lied to her (omission) but I also lied to myself. As Jordan Peterson says, there's a part of each of us that does not have our best interest in mind, and consciously tries to sabotage progress. That part of me intentionally deceived me. Weird, but deeply true.
     
  5. HereAndThere

    HereAndThere Fapstronaut

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    Every period i was completely honest in a relationship everything went to shit or things stayed the same. Problems dont magically disappear once you talk about them. You just reveal one button more to be pushed in next conflict. So then i started to fake it, thats a too strong of a word, choose carefully which parts of me i project outwards. It worked to well, implications of that fact made me sad. You see, the part missing in all this honesty thing is consideration. Its not really expected that you honestly express yourself(even if thats the words used), youre expected to take into consideration your partners emotional landscape and carefully shape your expression to gently fit into it and put the rest(all negative emotions like anger, shame, disgust and loneliness)that dont fit back into the fridge for internal cooldown. She dont want to hear what you think, she want to hear what she thinks in a deeper voice. I got tired of that shit and i chose honesty again, but its different now, i am better able to deal with my problems. And still, if i would want to nurture a relationship i wouldnt chose complete honesty. Thats why i dont chose to be a relationship, i chose to be myself.
     
  6. McStoa

    McStoa Fapstronaut

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    i would lie because telling the thruth somehow makes it more real. So long as i keep it to myself i can also hide it from myself. the moment it's out there i'm accountable. So lying is in the first place lying to yourself, its strenghtening the masks you carry for the outer world. And it's just those masks that need to be taken down one by one to become who you are.
     
    hope4healing likes this.
  7. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    From a SOs perspective -
    You only bury the treasure, like a pirate.
    You put into a Safe the precious belongings.
    When you lie, and don't share into your relationship whatever you are hiding, you're not trusting us with whatever you deem valuable enough for your Bank or secret spot... Whatever you have hidden from the world.
    People only hide what they consider valuable to Them.
    If you aren't sharing it with your partner, Whatever It Is....
    Is Clearly more valuable to you than your partner.
    It's human nature to want to keep the important things protected.
    What is important and what isn't...
    Depends on YOU.
     
  8. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    To me the heart of the “why” is you don’t truly love and accept yourself and find yourself worthy of love. So, you think if she knew the real you she wouldn’t want you. Usually the real you is all we want.

    General you, not specifically you.
     
  9. Rock_Star

    Rock_Star Fapstronaut

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    its easier the more you do it. it's not shame that makes you not want to tell. its scary to be honest. you dont know how your SO is going to react, but you can't control their response, you can control how you react to their response. for example even though Kenzi and I are fighting I still told her about an add that popped up on my phone. I could've easily not told her and the thought did cross mind but I knew I still need to stay accountable for what happens.
     
    Jennica likes this.
  10. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Good job on holding yourself accountable! I hope I'm not intruding by asking the following questions, if so, feel free to tell me to kick rocks!
    1) do all instances of accountability issues (or lack thereof) bare the same weight, to you? Is telling Kenzi about a pop up ad equal to telling kenzi you oogled someone?

    2) which gives you more anxiety to say, or, are they equal? A)"baby, I just clicked the x on a pop up ad" or B) "baby, I stared longer than 3 seconds at this woman's (name body part)"?

    3) do you feel you'd be more likely to lie about scenario A or B? Why?
    True that. Do you think thats because the person telling the lie actually wants it to be true?!? Their needs of believing the lie overwhelm the ability to tell the truth?
    What makes it scary? The lack of control of partners response to the lie? Do you think the more intense the lie causes a more intense reaction from kenzi? (the worse the lie-->more anxiety anticipating her response-->higher chance to continue lie---> leads to self shame)

    *If you lie because you're scared of your spouses response, what can that spouse do to help you feel more comfortable to not have to lie? Is your response fair to them?
     
    hope4healing likes this.
  11. Rehab101

    Rehab101 Fapstronaut

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    I think lies can lead to more lies. You even have to lie to urself to function as a self protective mechanism. Good to get rid of lying habit before it grows into a beast.
    For me personally, it just feels good to have a honesty toward my partner and myself. Win win situation. Man pride is overrated when it comes to pmo. There are much greater value in life out there.
     
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  12. Rock_Star

    Rock_Star Fapstronaut

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    1.) yes they are now. anytime anything happens I am honest as soon as it happens. in the beginning though it was not easy at all. everything I did I felt like I messed up so bad it was going to be the end and kenzi was just going to walk out on me. I messed up a lot too and didn't always tell her what happened and it always caused more pain and heartache then if I had just been honest in the first place.
    2.) I can't say which, cause I dont do either anymore. if something happens I get rid of it immediately and dont click into any ads. the thing is they have to be honest with themselves and ask why they looked more then 3 seconds or why they clicked into the ad.
     
    0111zerozero11 likes this.
  13. LowKeeKee

    LowKeeKee Fapstronaut

    I had a short meditation the other day, suggested by my therapist and I thought deep about what in my childhood made made me so inclined to hide things as an adult, and here are my notes from that meditation.

    I felt conflicted nearly every day, I always felt that I could never do enough, that I could never do anything right, that I was dumb or wrong in nearly every situation that arose. I had teachers that refused to deal with me if I wasn't drugged, I had this person at home who took any of the actions of a young boy and blew them out of proportion and made me feel small. A person who always did their best to try and manipulate me into believing that my father wasn't a good person, and that I wasn't a good person. I constantly felt I needed to hide everything to save myself from being reprimanded.

    I grew up in an abusive household with a horrible stepfather who grew up very Catholic and tried to instill the age old "children are to be seen and not heard" and it was very troublesome for me, being an energetic young man who was always on the move and doing things.

    My teachers throughout my young life refused to try and work with a child with "ADHD" and told my mom that if I wasn't on medication they wouldn't help me, so I was on a very heavy dose of ritalin for probably 8-10 ish years.

    It was all a bunch of horrible situations for a kid to be in, to completely squash any sense of self esteem or dignity I could have formed at that age.

    I think this has a role to play in why I've been so afraid of confrontation and conflict in my adulthood.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  14. LowKeeKee

    LowKeeKee Fapstronaut

    Here is a quote from @GhostWriter that was unboxed to me in relation to this conversation

     
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