NoFap Owners are probably not going to like this post/discussion

Cliff Notes to my tl/dr post. NoFap is not promoting better methods to breaking addiction to porn, instead only focusing on brute force/white knuckle method. In some/many? if brute force is not augmented with other methods, it does more harm than good

quick intro. 54yo, married for 30+ years. will be for another for 30.
Got addicted to porn for the first time year+ ago. PMO pretty much daily.

Quit last week after stupidly finally wondering if porn was addictive and side effects, duh. What I quickly learned scared the shit out of me and porn addiction was clearly the root cause of a few problems in my life

(PS only one M in past week since quitting, no P with that, couldn't O..go figure , this site has helped immensely ) Not bragging but it hasnt been that hard.

OK with that background...

Let me first say, founders of this site deserve a nobel prize in science or natl medal of honor. It squarely addresses first step on road to all addiction recovery. Acknowledge the problem, seek help and community . The porn industry is a cancer on society and because of this site (maybe others dunno, this is only one I found) and other things the blanket will be pulled off the porn industry and slowly though regulation and better general understanding in the mainstrem, the explosive growth of porn will at some point subside.

Here is what site owners might not like.

The generally accepted and promoted method to break addiction on NoFap is just brute force. Fight though it for X days, then XX days, then XXX days.

I believe it's has been proven ( for general addictions, nothing specific to porn yet) that simple brute force denial of addictive behavior (with no other methods) does more harm than good and makes breaking addiction harder, more stressful, more anxiety and with less chance of success, more chance of relapse.

Bio-chemically speaking suddenly reducing Dopamine production and then just fighting the urge (with no other methods) creates a fight or flight syndrome in Limbic part of brain for most people. This is bad for recovery.

So.... if above is true (I could be wrong) that the above is generally accepted science, why is there not more focus on other methods that make stopping PMO much easier with higher degree of success and lower degree of relapse?

My only experience here is what I have seen and participated in New To NoFap forum, where the initial advice is generally horrible, IMO (sorry gotta keep it 100). If you want to know more about what I am talking about with alt methods with perhaps better efficacy , just go see any of my posts in that forum over the last week.

(side note: the community aspect and posts like "welcome, we are here for you, youve taken the first step" are great, and absolutely key part of recovery but only the very first step, that alone might not accomplish goal for many people.

 

OK, i agree with all you say as a dogma for breaking addiction.

I'll use that to try to make my point again.

Why aren't more alt methods (like yours) to break porn addiction promoted on this site ?

Why is the only method promoted... fight it out, white knuckle this bitch.

It could be argued (and maybe supported by well accepted science ??) the white knuckle method used by itself does more harm than good

 

really sorry for tl/dr but trying to organize my own thought in typing this wall of text.

I agree with parts of your post disagree with others.

I believe the site has more impact than you suggest . The way the forums are organized and named, the stickies, the moderation process, rules etc etc. and ESPECIALLY the on-board process in New to NoFap (or brand new "help me" posts in any other thread

I also believe that the white knuckle suggestion is BY FAR the most suggested method (at least as it relates to New to Fapp forum where I have spent most of my time). I do believe it could be SO much better. and may be doing more harm than good. My sample size is probably 20-30 brand new threads I have read. 80%+ (maybe 90?) of the initial responses are "hey welcome. you;ve come to the right place, community is important, you've taken the first step".

Those responses are perfect and exactly where to start, but if there are any next steps are what to do, it is almost always "take one day at a time, do a challenge" Rarely "hey this the best way to use the forum". Rarely any "hey here a few easy first steps to take to get started to end your porn addiction"

IF it is true that primary advice given to "help me" threads is " welcome glad to have you , just fight thru and white knuckle this bitch" (this could be proven true or false)

AND

IF it is true that fighting it out is not a good way to approach porn addiction (and may make it worse) (this could be proven true or false)

THEN

Its problem

A little more background if you want to read....

disclosure. I am obviously not a medical professional. Everything I learned about how to break porn addiction I learned over the past week doing my own research BUT, I have confirmed some of my ideas with a professional . I have been seeing a therapist for the past 5 months (nothing to do with porn addiction). PHd from Duke University , been in private for decades. Part of his practice is marriage/family stuff, his PHD was in this area, thus he knew all about porn and the science behind it. We did talk about porn addiction this week only because it was this week I realized what a cancer it was and the first time I brought it up.

He was adamant that community the aspect of a forum like this is overwhelming positive for recovery. But also agreed that the using ONLY the white knuckle approach could do more harm than good, by causing "fight or flight" in the Limbic (which is what I learned on my own but wanted to verify).

Fight or Flight leads to stress anxiety. Stress anxiety leads to more cravings / urges. Vicious cycle.

He asked about How the site was organized, what sorts of info etc etc (older guy so not especially tech or internet forum saavy). Another point he brought was that some of the forums I described could actually be just more porn for some people. A valid point brought up in this thread. I think Soverign brings up some great points and has great suggestions on how to (and not to) navigate your way around the site.

Porn is Porn. Pictures, Text, or Audio. He also said that even a persons thoughts / fantasies could be considered porn, though less addictive than the click click instant access online porn.

This is another area that site owners have a responsibility to at least acknowledge and then the community can help improve itself.

great point. I have NEVER seen this brought up in the New to Nofap forum. The despair and life destruction that some of the new posters come in with in their first post just rip away at my soul.

You can just tell that PMO is a symptom to a much deeper problem that must be address. Vicious cycle though as addiction to porn retards your relationship with real life people.

do you rem name of documentary?

 

sorry. yes "white knuckle" is cold turkey but better to describe it as to simply FIGHT THE URGE with brute force and will power. All you are doing is creating more stress and anxiety in your brain. stress and anxiety is one of the things that leads people to porn. Seems a little counter productive.

Also comment about my therapist has nothing to do with what I suggest and there is no need to see one to break your addiction to porn, You can do all I suggest on your own with no outside help. I was not seeing him for anything to do with sex or porn addiction. I figured this all out on my own, and just asked him to verify the science behind what I discovered (since he does have a PHd in this field)

 

for sure. rather than me type up here about two minute routine I do when urges start, please go see this thread so you can see the entire process in practice, which starts with Biochemistry, Dopamine, and Porn Addiction 101 education

Dozens of these threads each day. pretty much all with the same exact problem, some the stories of porn addiction caused life devastation tore away at my soul in empathy for the person, and just felt the need to help.

This one is by far one of the least painful ones to read, but had all my latest formatting and such. Be sure to hit expand on my posts in the thread. its easy to breeze thru thread and miss all the info

https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/hello-everyone-commencing-countdown-engines-on.213323/

 

I would violently disagree with this. My sample size has been reading/ following and participating in almost all NEW threads in the New to NoFapp forum. I am sure within this site are lots of alt methods to "brute force just stop for XX days".

Problem is this...

New member reaching out for help MIGHT find there way into the various other threads and MIGHT find better methods, but in doing so MIGHT also find more porn (yes i said that). Ive scanned some of those forums briefly and some of those thread are so descriptive they could just trigger more urges and cravings for the new member.

Manage the urge and you manage the problem. Just fight the urge and you might just make it worse.

You cannot just fight the urge anymore than can an icecube could "fight" the urge to melt in the sun. Its just chemistry. Difference between the ice cube analogy and porn addiction, is the brain of course, so its a mix of bio-chemistry and thought management, mindfulness, distraction, and prob a few other things I am forgetting
,
p.s the 2nd video is MUCH more important, the 1st is just a primer.

But again, if you think all this stuff is being explained clearly to new members , please go spend 5 days in the new member forum (only reading brand new threads) and then lets talk more.

I think you are missing GhostWriters point . There are several factors that will dictate how hard breaking addiction will be

1) What is their motivation
2) Are their other unresolved/undiagnosed psycological issues in their life (a point brought up earlier by another poster ITT)
3) How long has the POM been going on
4) What methods do they use to address the urges/cravings
5) ??
6) ??

Age is another one but probably farther down the list than you might think

 

one more thing I hope is clear, but let me state explicitly.

In NO way do I believe any "new" methods I have shared in various threads are actually new. they are not.

I spent a few days researching porn addiction because I was ready to quit.

There is so much info out there. Some of it just a bunch of BS. Some it more BS but the goal of the provider is to get your money, Some of it so scientific only a doctor understand.

All I did shrink is shrink it all down using the info that was most impactful and resonated the most with me. Those two videos are the best I found. The right info, presented in the right way.

All I did was combine those with common knowledge of meditation.

p.s. I might of called it "new" in a few threads. If I did that was my marketing brain just wanting to motivate the person asking for help to follow through and spend the time needed. Majority of them had been battling for a long time with constant cycle of short success/ failure. So figured they were looking for something "new"

Only thing I did is packaging already known stuff in easy to read, easy to understand , easy to implement steps.

But back to my main point ITT

The primary method to break porn addition in the new member thread is brute force , fight it for XX days.

I am sure if I spent the time I could find multiple , reviewed scientific papers that prove this does not help, and makes matters worse for general addiction.

Only data point I have is asking my therapist (Duke PHD, decades of private practice in family/marriage/sex ) counseling.

Me: Couple things I read on webz suggested trying to just brute force quitting porn ( or any addiction), could actually make it worse because of "flight or fight" you are creating in Limbic. Thus just creating MORE stress / anxiety. Is that true.

Him: "For sure" (but qualified and I paraphrase ... not universally true as other could be going on the persons brain but yeah for most people they are making it harder if ONLY using "white knuckle"

thats all the info I needed.

YMMV