No sexual bond

@Blackswan My OH and I are attempting hard mode, which means we aren't having sex or orgasms for a while. We are only on day 10, and I feel like he is looking at me differently. There is a love and appreciation there that was totally absent before. But it's clear he's not at the point yet where he feels physical urges for touching or intimacy. He's in flatline and it's gonna take as long as it takes. He knows I'll wait for him. Also I dont want to be having sex with him until we are both ready. We both have to learn that sex, arousal & orgasms are a product of intimacy not fantasy/porn. We both just need time to re-adjust, rewire and get to know each other in the mean time. It kind of feels like we are actually only just starting out for the first time, and it's really nice

Have you considered hardmode with your hubby?

I don't send him pics or anything at the mo because it wouldn't have the desired effect and I feel like it might put pressure on him to feel things he's not ready to feel. For me the key is understanding what's happening, not blaming him or being resentful for the flatline. And being genuinely and wholey grateful for what he is trying to do to recover himself.

Before he quit I had a hell of a lot of resentment and anger and frustration about it all. But since he's been able to acknowledge it all and accept the addiction and is genuinely doing what he can to overcome it, I just feel free of all that and full of appreciation instead. Him realising his addiction was absolutely crucial to me being able to forgive and move on though. If you are doubting your husbands commitment to recovery that will keep you in a bad place. So maybe just try communicating your concerns in an open, loving and non-threatening way and hopefully he will put your mind at ease a bit.

Talking about my own fantasising / desensitization issues with him and doing nofap with him has also helped because its it's like we're fixing our own issues together rather than me just wanting him to change his ways. I am by no means perfect either haha

 

The offensive comments have been deleted from this thread.

 

Id like to add on this "Perfect beauty" that wives of PA seem to be worried about, the way I see it, we PA did not look for "perfection", in fact girls in P are not enough to the PA, that's why he's always searching, "hunting" for something more, that's the porn addiction that seeks novelty, no, I don't think he would be too excited to get on with one of the girls he PMOs to, maybe at first, but if he were to "marry" her or something, he would grow bored of any girl if he continued to PMO

 

I love what Iguana says here. I can't tell you how many times I have scrolled through dozens....hundreds...of images of women until I found the "perfect" one to get-off to....That time. In fact, once a photo was used to attain an orgasm, it almost ceased to attract me any more. It became "used". It was then on to yet another search.

No real woman can compete with a man's imagination. (I am sure the converse of that is true as well.)

 

He have have had a few "favorites", but the brain's search for "new" simply doesn't work that way. If you look at other peoples' posts, you'll see a pattern of ever escalating "perverseness" to their (and mine) porn use.

 

Its interesting to see how much openness you guys have about the subject, Blackswan. From my PA experience and my OH’s attitude, her heart would break in half everytime i confessed about yet another relapse. She tried to be there for me but it was, like it is for you in some ways too hard to not get hurt. She felt very similar emotions of not being good enough and that she isnt and doesnt want to be like those pstars.

In the last 6months ive decided i cannot tell her about another relapse, so i went underground. With close friends’ and this site’s help, i realised it doesnt need to be her that has to be doing the support. I feel like since then she’s felt a lot better about herself and has been much happier while ive continued trying to beat PA.

I know a lot of people say honesty is everything, but from my experience, this subject breaks the women in relationships with PA men and visa versa. Sure, some can bottle it up, a few times, but PA recovery as you probably saw now can take years.

Im sure you love your husband and will be there for him but i think he needs to do a lot of rewiring, fighting urges, maybe talking on forums to professional help without talking to you too much about it. The top 5 pstar thing is so insensitive towards you. How can you be the confident person in times of closure when ur trying to break into his mental top5.

Rekindling romance where possible, having nice conversations, complimenting each other is what you guys should spend time on.
Im sure he would benefit from daily pstar withdrawal discussions and how bad it is, but thats also how some marriages get destroyed. And i hope you guys prevail and get back on track!!!

 

I have a hunch that the 'I don't find you attractive' comment was said in a time where he was trying to rationalise his addiction-caused behaviour of pmoing. If he didn't find you attractive the relationship would not have started. Trying to externalise his problems and blame someone or something other than himself allows him to avoid confronting his own flaws in behaviour and in thinking. At times of weakness I have told my wife that she is expecting a lot of me to avoid all pmo, most men (in relationships or not) masturbate to porn or fantasies of other women. They were hurtful things to say, and were muddled thinking caused by the brain's desire to maintain he pmo habit and keep getting its regular dopamine hits. Ask your husband if he finds you attractive just after an orgasm with you. Not when he is in the pain amd confusion of cravings and the twisted logic that accompanies it.

And another point: your attractiveness is never just 'down to you'. A person's own tastes and personality and preferences are always a factor, and your husband's failure to notice your attractiveness at a particular time is his problem, most likely caused by his exposure to too much P (which any amout of P can be, especially when considered unacceptable in a relationship).

One man's perception of your beauty does not define it. 12 years of a relationship sounds worth saving and repairing, but if your husband cannot appreciate you, someone will. Don't let hid P-clouded judgement affect your self-image or self-esteem too much.

Read some of the posts and threads from other SO's. Speak to them directly. Most will tell you that although things, in he beginning, were pretty awful, having a pmo free husband has brought them closer together and their self-image, self-esteem and feeling of being valued by their partner have all improved by embarking on the nofap journey.

Good luck!

 

Agree with the above from sam, especially the last paragraph, and hopefully time away from pmo will allow your husband to snap back to reality. And that reality is - that he is really fortunate. Because there are a lot of people in the world who dont have a person who cares for them, who loves them and is there and is ready to forgive, over and over again.

Opinions seem to differ on sex or no sex during recovery, for me it feeels like completely different emotions, (pmo) and being with your spouse so i say do it coz that falls under rekindling romantic relationship. And that when the ex pmo addict feels urges, they find salvation and peace in the company of their spouse... again ive read completely different advice to this though, so see what works for you.

My main concern is: ur the one that seems to be seeking all the help. I would suggest at some point that he needs to register to this forum, maybe the admin can delete this whole thread so he doesnt feel exposed and we can all start trying to help him! Whats he saying hes doing about his pmo? And do u trust him that he isnt in constant relapse?

 

Hi again BLACKSWAN ,
When i stopped in august 2015 my brain started the changes , after 3 weeks or so i got withdrawal symptoms which i still have few of them. In mid 2016 i started to notice girls noticing me a lot i started to look at them more , feel them more , smile at them , talk & laugh with them & pay attention to details. It's somthing that i never had as a teenager & even as a young adult it took me 23 years of my life imagine how shocking & surprising that to me & to you , all what i was thinking of is porn since i was 11 or 12 it was more normal to me than any real girls sadly. Now after more than two years later i got even better & i met a lot of beautiful smart girls who are really into me , even thou i still have some withdrawal left in me all i want & think of is the girl I'm currently in love with, i want to kiss her , hug her , love her , cuddle , spend time together, remind her that she's a beauty who is worth my time & that she's the most desirable person i have ever met , listen to her , feel for her , touch her & give her all of my attention , it's like time stopped & nothing else matters to me. A new pathways were created in my brain, it's a big change & it's even getting better & stronger with time it made me meet someone . However I'm still almost ready for a relationship because i still have some anixity & confusion but it's totally worth it & I'm doing all i can to recover faster.

 

Many men, upon withdrawal from PMO, go though something called a flatline: they have no libido, sometimes their organ even shrinks. It can take a while to get out of that phase, and nobody can say how long it will take.

More about the flatline here: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/search/node/flatline

 

Flatline can also happen more than once during a reboot. In my experience my second flatline was shorter than my first.

 

Hi Blackswan,

At least from my own experience, although from the replies you’ve gotten I suspect this is typical, there is no chance at all that this is a reflection on you.

Porn addiction has been a wedge between my partner and I, although admittedly they don’t necessarily know that, and this has absolutely nothing to do with how they look or act.

It’s not that you fall short of some ideal that he’s developed from exposure to P but that his own appetite/abilities have been eroded through exposure to really addictive and harmful material - that is rarely “sexual” in the sense that we would normally use the word.

 

something people seem to be ignoring here.... your husband said he has never been sexually attracted to you, right? ....but he married you. I know sex isn't everything in a marriage, but it's pretty important to most couples, and not just that, but I would think that sexual attraction is pretty important in choosing to marry someone in the first place. If he was never sexually attracted to you, why did he marry you in the first place? Or am I totally missing something here (arranged marriage possibly)?
It just sounds like the problem may go deeper than porn. If he was never attracted to you, but asked you to marry him/accepted your proposal; what the heck was he thinking, and why did he put both of you in this situation?

Him giving up porn may help, and I hope it does, but the marriage may have some non-porn related issues that need working on.