my journal - need to deal with the pain and confusion

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by ClearChrystal, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Oh I am so sorry. How difficult this must be to go through while pregnant! All I can do is reiterate this is not your fault! Even if you did deny him sex not your fault! And I feel stupid for trusting heck I'm a trial lawyer who questions liars all day and did not see it, but don't beat yourself up. To fall in love is to trust and be vunerwyabd you can't live your life being on guard 24/7 and that's what you would have to do to catch someone like this. It's easier to blame ourselves because if we are at fault we can fix and control that. Otherwise we are left to the mercy of them deciding to change and that we can't control.
     
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  2. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    I wonder which way is best to introduce him to the forum so he feels curious and not overwhelmed. Just the master link? The specific link to the rebooting area? Or to the success stories? Or my couple of threads here (I think that might be overwhelming as it focuses on the negativity of it all for now as a first step).
     
  3. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    I feel like NoFap is a toolbox with a bunch of tools but very little instruction on how to use them. I think it's better if he gets informed about his problem first and then uses the tools found here to address his problem.

    I would have him read this first: https://www.nofap.com/porn-addiction/
    Then I would have him read this next: https://www.nofap.com/rebooting/
    Have him watch the Gary Wilson video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
    You could have him read this from YBOP but it might already be in the book you gave him: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/reboot_your_brain

    I have bookmarked other small videos if you're interested in passing them on.

    After he has done his research he might start to put together an action plan. It might involve a therapist or it might involve a online program such as Recovery Nation or NoFap Academy. This is where NoFap comes into play. If he's looking for hope or look for how others have made progress then he can look in Success Stories. If he's just looking to journal and ask for feedback then he can do that. If he wants an Accountability Partner then he can do that too. He'll only appreciate these tools AFTER he does his research. Coming straight to NoFap can be like joining AA or Weight Watchers without doing any research... it can be overwhelming and confusing.
     
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  4. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    @i_wanna_get_better1 your help and guidance is invaluable. Your patience to listen and give thoughtful suggestions and steps is ... not many can do that. I appreciate your time so much. And I am going through everyone's journals now, and all of you start to countur up more like people, three-dimensional, four dimensional whatever and it helps so much to know that there's a lot of love and altruistic support out there. I cannot be grateful enough.
    Alas he's home from work and tired with a cold..last night he discovered he has...trush (gets it sometimes due to diabetes) and he' told me we can't have sex for a week at least until it heals as he doesn't want to harm the baby. I agree. But the way he said it...it's clear he feels he needs to be on best behavior and to not have me doubt him. I'm not sure he understands that it's not just the mechanical act I need. I told him its perfectly fine.... all I need is to feel he is there... a penis is not always necessary for that.
    He says it's easy to refrain from masturbation for a week as it speeds up recovery if he doesn't O, and he's done it before and knows the itch to M comes after a week. I told him half jokingly that well he still can do stuff to me, doesn't cost a thing and it won't affect the trush, plus there's a huge backlog for that ! He agreed but we all say yes and smile it out sometimes when we really mean "whatever, just get off my back". At the moment not M is entirely an effect of the thrush and not any other intention.
    As I was putting our kid to sleep I saw he found the book ybop on the sofa in the next room where I left it and started analysing it. So book it is for now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  5. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    Quick check in:
    - closer last days. Sex every day *[mechanical at times but intention to be present *]. Successful Os but night be becAuse I'm like a new person after the shirty sex life for a long while. Pretty sure some fantasy spills km his head as in inertia and coupled with not seeing P for a few days, my body is good enough. My novelty will wear off.
    Initiates talk about the whole thing. Notices my moods and asks me what's going on. Attentive and open. Says easy to stop porn but doesn't know how easy to keep it up, when I plodded suspicious at his enthusiasm which I thought it was a bit naive and told him so. So not an addiction, huh? Says a few yrs ago when he stopped he experienced loss if libido for 3weeks (the flatline?). I never knew about it then..Asks me for advice, what is better,M or no M etc. Tempted to give but told him to do hisbresearch and his reading as its too much for me. But must pass on that M linked too much to fantasy and porn ATM for him so better not to do it. But I can't tutor him. Talked to him a boutnsome couples here that are further in the journey and how it's not that easy to give up P but it's possible if both on board and complete honesty to each other. He thinks around the birth of baby he may stall so we need to establish now strategies. He knows now porn is deal-breaker and I am only Here and have not left or cheated because of reading the book ybop and jndertsanfing then issue differently. Told him to read it and then read it again as to see it's not purely a morals issue in which he determines to do the right thing, but a whole phenomena in the brain that he has to circumvent and deal with but can't do that until he understands the phenomena. Told him about fanos and jntimacy check ins and things partners can do. Talked about intimacy and mind there during sex not just fantasy.it's a whole thing to learn and relearn.
    Also said I'm not here to establish his path ,I have started work on my own to heal and my main goal is so ground myself again as to have clarity when I observe him in his journey of giving P up.

    I don't want to sound pushy to him as hrs making first steps into enquiring on his own about the whole thing but I gave him the link here with someone's journal. I told him that's the reason I know and I'm worried it's a hard journey cos of what men go through, it's a whole soul searching process . But the results are positive but not happened just so easily

    OK so pragmatic hat on this is the gist:
    -'not addicted' but knows it will be hard and feel twinges along the way?
    -a bit naive or laissez-faire or otherwise not fully engaged although probably willing to try this "experiment". Asks me which strategy is best, M or no M, as he knows he'll have trouble not M. - need to forward him into about how entrenched is M now with fAntasy and P . Also that itch to M is habit and not true libido especially now T the beginning of jounrey
    - really cheerfully calmly said OK he stops P but problem Round the labour and birth and he might watch then as to sort himself out. IAppreciAte the honestly but it also shows he hasn't quite grasped just what a demon P is, to me and to him and to our marriage. Told him I iN be there with a H J and talk I'd he honest but he must be open and honest. He says thAts a deal. So again, seems responsibly to "fix that problem" seems to be mainly on me as he asked me for solutions and accepted my solution.

    In all this it looks like I'm the manager of change. That's bad. Someone suggested deadlines. So will kindly nicely and affectionately and firmly give deadline on reading ybop (book in the drawer untouched for now but granted in the last 48hrd he had other things to deal with when back from work). And deadline for reading some links suggested by someone here. Then he must be on his way and decide himself which way and how to do it, but I'll be by his side. And to remember that in parallel to him I'm working on myself and my motivations with the goal of seeing clearly if his behaviour is harmful or enriching to my life and our marriage
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  6. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    Empathy:
    He is deleting all his porn and says hrs Herr to reassure me as long as I need.

    Sex every night. There was the stallion and I had no idea! Not sleepy..! Infant even with his trush he tries to make me happy!

    !Starting to feel like I am the replacement for M. Haven't refused it because I am scared he'd go back to it and maybe sex helps him reconnect somehow. But it's not making love by an Yb stretch of imagination. Low sexual drive..? Even on our golden times we never had sex every night...

    When he says he feels watched and not trusted I tell him well...he is to an extent and I hate to think like this. What helps him understand or has him not get defensive is if I tell him to imagine he discovered I cheated (prioritised on some other guy), if I had refused him sex regularly but he discovered I was sexting with some other guy. He chose P over me for a long time, addiction or not.

    Feeling resentful most of the times now. As I calm down from the crisis I wonder if all of this is worth it. I feel able to take a step back and take a long look at him and sometimes I see the solid man I married, sometimes the wishy-washy neither here nor there side of his personality that showed me he was checked out emotionally.

    I just want to trust again and get on with life whilst feeling my man sees me as the queen bee. I don't want to be with a sorry person that fantasises about his teen blondes but hasn't got the balls to call us out and go get what his d'ck wants or to leave a solid woman like me with kids and thoughts and everything behind.
     
  7. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Resentment is totally justified and the same way I feel. I go from being okay one day even happy to hating him the next. I kind of relate it to when my Dad passed in the immediate months and years after. Often the anger and sadness would hit me out of nowhere and it was random. I think we are in a grieving process as we are grieving the loss of the relationship we thought we had and of the man we thought he was. I heard a saying once that the hardest thing one can ever do is grieve the loss of someone who is still alive.

    Wow ? Sex daily! I have a high drive but that's a lot. I think if it's building the relationship and you enjoy it that's great but that's not what I read. I read that you are doing it out of few that he will PMO if you don't. I know I've been in the same place. However it sounds to me like he's replacing pmo with you and that's not going to help the situation. I have also often felt like an object he is just masturbating to. My partner does not equate sex with intimacy. For him it's about him feeling physical pleasure and there is no connection between us. If he tries to focus on the connection or on us he cannot perform. I asked him if he ever felt true intimacy with anyone and his response was he never felt a really strong attraction . Meaning he never wanted to rip someone's clothes off. I said no that's chemistry not intimacy. He actually had no idea. And of course that hurt me a ton because he was saying he did not feel that about me. I have felt that and had men feel it about me but clearly not him.

    My partner has never been overtly jealous in fact at times I've wondered why he had no inkling. He would on occasion get upset if others men looked at me or one time he found out I was friends with an ex but nothing major. I'm really not sure he can empathize because he does not experience feelings in the way emotionally healthy people do.

    I also often think it's not worth it and I'm still not sure I will stay. If it was as simple as stop looking at P that would be one thing but it's not. These guys have very deep issues with intimacy and by the time they reach a certain age it's pretty impossible to change it. A counselor friend honestly said to me he's probably never going to be able to change completely. Much of who we are is cemented in our first few years of life and if no one points out the error of our ways we just continue on that road making it harder and harder than change. After all we have no idea that our view of the world is different it's all we have known. So when you are in your mid 40s and your partner is telling you this and you are hearing it for the first time it's very difficult. He will learn the motions and what to do and not to do but it is unlikely he will ever do it on instinct. Chances are he will mess that role up a lot because he's acting. Sometimes he forgets the lines. He's acting because he loves you but will never be the person you truly desire. He will never give you the level of intimacy and empathy you desire. He will give you some but it's not going to be all you need and you must decide if that's enough. I think if it as someone learning to speak a foreign launguage in their 40s. It is unlikely they will ever excel at and they would have if they started as a child. The person still always thinks in their first launguage and translates into the second. If you know anyone who speaks two they will tell you how it is. Sometime over years and years you do start to think in the second launguage but it takes a very very long time.
     
  8. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    I love the Language analogy! We are in a trilingual household as it happens here and it makes sense the way you frame it. Sadly it makes so much sense. Yeah sex everyday makes me just feel like "wow, so this is your sex drive huh" (or sexual compulsion) and also like you articulated it so well, their fear and doing the motions out of love(or what they think is love?) but not out of understanding what true intimacy is.
    He's still tip toeing with the idea of addiction. I'll discuss with him not having sex (at least daily) and then he can feel how much of an issue is not giving in to the compulsion. You have sex daily with someone you're very sexually attracted to, right? Can't keep your hands off and the rest. Well 10 days ago there hasn't the smallest indication he was so into my body lol ... it's laughable actually and tragic-comical. I have a high sex drive as it is so it's been a change to say the least...but it feels like I'm just enabling him now.
     
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  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I think that's the sad reality we must accept. That they likely will never feel and show love the way we do or would like them to. That's hard. But for us we can go onto other partners and experience the love and intimacy. It is unlikely they ever will. It's not about you or your relationship it's a deep flaw in them. I do think you should stop the daily sex and see how he reacts. If he has a true addiction you will know then.
     
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  10. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    That is a very good suggestion. My gut tells me the answer though.. the sex daily now has been like a superficial patch over the angst. When I stop it I know..I just know he will revert to the way he used to be... I dread the angst. But I suppose I'm a little bit stronger now and got to keep at it and I won't be hit as bad. Even if we split up it's just the timing and everything. Now my head is in the sand and I know t. I do believe his need for O daily (possibly more than daily) is nothing more than a compulsive behaviour. Tonight if he wants sex I'll have him look me in the eye and go as slow as possible. Not that silly business of pretending skmethjng hit you over the head and you're not controlling yourself. Cos that's pretending... they pretend... you're right, they just don't know how to just be. Be interesting to see if he'll keep it up when required to be there and not in fantasy land. I know the answer.....
     
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  11. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    I digress but since the topic is here I remember one of my exes always asked me to look him in the eyes when doing stuff and O. That guy knew a trick or two because sex was intimate.
     
  12. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    No sex last night we both didn't feel like it . Watched an episode of a series on TV and talked about what's going on with us. He is adamant that he is not addicted but will read the book and everything. He's accepting about my vigilance and changed behaviour as its "natural" after all this time. Was pleasantly surprised when he suggested we had the dinner at the kitchen table and not the usual space out in front of TV.so we could talk some more. He talked about identities and how he feels pressure to fill in imaginary expectations when with people. Talked about letting go and accepting self and other introspectinve stuff along the theme. Expressed his worriies that I might get PND after birth like last time and ways we can be close and overcome it. Asks me to ask him regularly if he's feeling the twinge to use porn, to keep him in check. I reiterated again that I don't want to be the manager of change and I will.help and ask buy don't project on me and my behaviour the responsibility for sorting this out. Quite a conversation. Then we talked about our sex life along the years with its highlights (both agreed on those but he seemed to remember more descriptive details about me from when we had sex ages ago). Talked about my insecurities and fears and the time to heal from it all. Told him I can't wait to live the day where I'm in public with him and my stomach doesn't sink when I see a pretty girl, thinking that he eyed her then he'd fantasise about her. And if that day seems unrealistic to achieve, to be honest with each other cos without trust it will be an absolute pain to be in our relationship and what's the point to that.

    Talked about favourite times etc. It was enjoyable going down memory lane. Moments like these make me think and feel this guy is gold and there is a foundation from which to reshuffle the pieces and rebuild them. Easter holiday is upon us and we've booked a getaway a short drive away and it seems it's gonna be a good time.
     
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  13. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    So glad to see it went well with the no sex. I'm concerned that he won't admit to the addiction. My partner is the same. At one point he said maybe it's an addiction but then he went to counseling and was told because he did not use it daily for hours and was able to stop it was not a problem. Which is totally not true. I find men don't like to admit to addiction or mental illness because they think it makes them look weak. One thing I've learned over the years is that worrying won't prevent something. We think we are preparing ourselves for it by worrying but in the end it causes us misery and does not change a darn thing. That helps me now in some of the tough days. I say if he's going to do it he is I can't stop that by worrying and obsessing.
     
  14. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    He woke me at 3am. Took me to his office. Gave me a box quite heavy use with stacks of DVD and burnt CD s. Told me tbisnis is porn collection from since he was a teen. To take it . No porn for him, cos he loves me he said
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  15. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    A lot of development. No time to write much these days as I'd rather not relive the emotional aspect as I tend to get fixated in it. Trying to focus in being zen and the unborn baby and riding the moments and conversations with him as they come when they come. The gist of concrete changes is:
    - closer honest conversations about innermost fears from both. He starts to speculate and explore his intimacy issues and accepts listening to my angst
    - at the stage we are now I feel he only understands me if I remind him of the 'being in your shoes ' scenario I concorted. Told him a(invented) story about me secretly camming behind his back for a while year, whilst brushing his sexual initiations off and being aloof in general. Told him that I could select my audience and I only preferred one type of guys to watch me(said arbitrarily ginger haired guys). Then he would discover I did that - I didn't confess, buy he discovered and challenged me. Told him my response would have been but I love him etc... it means nothing...it's just MO.... ginger men only? Never mind brush over that it was nothing I love him etc etc.... he said he'd have felt stupid, inadequate physically , betrayed as I had been methodically hiding for a long time, and what the hell is he doing here if I MO to a different type of man than him (physically). That was pretty bingo for me. Then asked him to imagine OK we decided to work this out etc, but when we go out for we cannot isolate from society, it will happen that there will be the ginger man crossing the road and me looking in that direction (not necessarily at that man). What would he think? He sAy yes he would wonder if I noticed the ginger guy. If when I O later on I'll be remembering bag ginger guy. He'd feel inadequate and vulnerable. So this I feel is going somewhere. It's the same as me seeing pretty blonde young women around, even when I'm not with him. I just want to vomit although I'm consciously trying to not imagine the worst. It's a visceral reaction.
    - told him that he needs to court me again from zero. He seems to get why when I refer him back to the ginger men scenario and just how impossible until for me to just go by words.
    - he is reading ybop and started mentioning stuff from there (resetting brain, dioamine surges etc).
    - says he thinks he's not addicted as he can stop stuff easily but I argued that is inhibiting something and maybe he should explore why he used that in the first place.
    -at the moment I am at peace with this honest talk but I am also starting to question whether he has enough in his emotional bag for me , and if it is enough for me. Just the depth.. the insights... not sure ATM but can't rush this decision . I feel I'm in a fixer role ATM and TBH I realise I've been yearning for my man to sweep me off my feet occasionally at least. Not sure how unrealistic my expectations are. Been also used to getting shitty crumbs and when he mustered something slightly better than crumbs I felt good. But is that enough for me to grow as a person as a part of the relationship. We'll see I guess
     
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  16. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know for how long he has given it up in the past, but this is the classic, classic line by addicts. It's what academics call the precontemplative stage, when one does not know that they have an addiction, and are in denial. The psychological withdrawal doesn't have to kick in within the first couple weeks or even months. So someone can "give it up" for 2 weeks and think they are okay, but if they had gone for longer, they would start to experience very serious, painful withdrawal. It's a very difficult stage to be in, because when anyone inquires about it, the response is, "but it's not an addiction, I could stop easily if I wanted to, but I just don't want to," or "look, I went a month without it, how can I be addicted?" But in reality, they could not go months without it, definitely not even 3 months, but most likely would be really suffering within a month.

    Why would he not give up P, M, and O (except with you)? It's like weaning someone off smoking, do you really want to give them those hits over time and get up their dopamine levels, let them re-live the high of smoking each time, or rather let them do it cold turkey and save themselves unnecessary and prolonged suffering? If you can get him to agree to give up all 3 for a defined length of time, even if it's just for you, then it is going to get harder for him to continue thinking that he is in control. And once he gets that feeling that he is not in control, he is going to be motivated to give it up.
     
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  17. ClearChrystal

    ClearChrystal Fapstronaut

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    You make sense! !ATM it's just O together but I just know sooner or later his itch will come
     
  18. fuzzywaz

    fuzzywaz Fapstronaut

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    I relate to this. In the beginning, it took me multiple conversations to get my SO, t understand the betrayal. It's frustrating because it seems so obvious to an emotionally balanced person..... It really doubles the pain to be betrayed, and then have to essentially convince the person that your feelings are valid.....WTF...?
     
  19. LizzyBlanca

    LizzyBlanca Fapstronaut

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