My Husband Said Something Interesting...

His answer was supposed to be All I Want is YOU.

 

THIS.

 

Argh, that sounds horrible.

One difficulty is that everybody here is against pornography. We all see it as evil (or at least wrong for us). But your husband seems to think it is fine. We all think he is deluding himself, but he doesn't. Has he talked about it to any of his friends? What would they do? Have you asked any of your male friends what they think?

When my wife delivered her ultimatum I already knew that pornography was wrong. I had to give it up to keep my marriage, but my wife also gave me the motivation I needed to stop being a hypocrite.

I read the book “Confronting Your Spouse’s Pornography Problem” by Reid & Gray in 2010 when I first started trying to quit pornography. It’s written for the spouse, not the addict like me, but it is still full of examples, implications, and advice that resonated with me. In the section called Abandoning Pornography Problems, when the authors are talking about the perceived advantages of continuing behaviour, they say

This is a bit contentious, but I think it is wise to write out one's reasons for wanting to give up pornography and the benefits it brought. I wrote out my reasons for wanting to stop here and the things it gave me here.

Perhaps you could get your husband to write down his two lists?

Good luck. I hope he can be brought around to realise the harm that pornography is doing, not just to his wife and marriage but also to the world and to him. Fingers crossed we'll meet him here in the New to NoFap forum one day.

 

I've minimized my issue before but never to the point of reaching water bottle status. That takes some serious mind fuckery. Regardless I would tell him to consume water like he's consuming porn. Last time I checked, losing a spouse to drowining is considered a negative consequence.

 

No, we don't all feel the same way, although we all have probably wondered it at some point. He's mourning for what he's losing, and he does not yet see, fully, what he is gaining. I've gone through that a couple times now. Being a little farther along, I can also stop and point to a stack of those little things I've gained, too. He sounds like a guy coming to grips with not coming to grips, if you catch my meaning.

Also, why does everyone want to go all ultimatum trigger happy? How many ultimatums have you seen actually work? How many ultimatums have worked on you? Ultimatums come from your own fears and anxieties, and when confronted with them someone else it goes to respond with all theirs - it's setting things up for failure. And I know everyone's dog's cousin's nephew needed an ultimatum, but again, how many ultimatums have you seen work and how many ultimatums have worked on you?
Hate the sin, love the sinner, express confidence in their ability to do better.

 

The reason ultimatums "work" is because they release the person giving them from holding onto hope.
Not the other way around.

 

I held off on responding because I wanted to get my thoughts together prior.

For one, it really does sound like he is in denial. I remember when I first found out my husband was following porn on Instagram I was enraged and hurt because we agreed on no porn in our relationship prior to being together. My husband said, "it's not porn, and it's normal, every guy follows accounts like these." I was devastated. Of course, he says that was his addiction talking, not him. He realizes how stupid that sounded once he was out of the PMO fog.

To me, it sounds like he hasn't gotten out of the fog yet, and his brain is still really "wanting" a high so his brain is tricking him and trying to get him to say whatever works so he can get that high. It doesn't make it right, but it's probably what's going on. Addiction really hijacks the brain in very confusing ways to someone who is not addicted (and I write that as a partner, not an addict).

When he says porn gives him relief, that's true, that's what addictions do, they are destructive ways to self-soothe the individual. I know that for my husband, it was never about the girls or their looks, it was purely about the escape from his own reality. He was trying to hide emotions from himself and the only way to do that was too numb out and he chose porn well because it was easy, he was susceptible since he started at such a young age, and it was easily hidden.

Trust me, when your guy is out of the fog and he looks back at what he said with a clear and healthy mind, he will be shocked and possibly embarrassed. I know my husband is horror-stricken sometimes when I tell him the things he said to me, and he can't believe he would say such things, but then I remind him that he was in his addiction.

The things to do in this situation would be to take care of yourself! I cannot say that enough. Make sure you are making you happy.

Also how long have you known about your husband's addiction? How long has he been addicted? Has he agreed he is an addict? Has he agreed to get help, go to therapy, get accountability software, filters, etc. You don't have to answer those questions here, but those are questions that you should know the answers to.

You are not okay with his porn use, and so you have the right to set boundaries. That is healthy. So if things spiral further, it's okay to say, "if you relapse into porn, I will stay with a friend for the weekend to give myself some space to feel safe."

This is a tough and long journey, but things that can help are boundaries, honest communication, and making sure both sides are 100% committed to recovery (of both the addict and partner).

I wish you good luck on this journey and if you ever need to reach out or vent you can always PM me. I completely understand how frustrating the addict brain can be.

Here is a resource thread I made and here is a boundary thread that @Kenzi made:

https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/resources-that-are-helpful-to-both-pa-and-so.108414/

https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-boundaries.109686/

 

AND YOU ARE NO LONGER AN ENABLER.

 

I'VE BEEN MAKING SO MUCH LOVE TO MY WIFE THAT I HAD TO GIVE HER TWO DAYS OFF TO REST.
SHE WANTED ME LAST NIGHT BUT I WANTED HER TO REST AND RECOVER. ALL I WANT IS HER . I WANT HER SO BAD, NOW THAT I HAVE ELIMINATED THE POISON THAT IS PORNOGRAPHY. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT SEXUAL EXCLUSIVITY IS A FOUNDATION FOR A HAPPY MARRIAGE. NO PORN, NO MASTURBATION, NO NOTHING ON BOTH SIDES UNLESS IT IS TOGETHER. I HAVE SO MUCH SEXUAL ENERGY NOW. I DESIRE NOTHING BUT MY WIFE ALL THE TIME.

 

“all I want is my porn, and to be able to do that. It’s the one thing that gives me relief, and I know you say it’s hurting us, but to me it’s like saying a water bottle is destroying our marriage. I just don’t see how it is.”

While the communication was horrible (which is probably a major issue for you both), it might help shift some of the anger/fear to compassion/hope if you read his response as fear of losing something that he’s needed his whole life. I don’t think any of us actually like porn at all. But for him and many of us guys here, porn is the only way we know to get amazingly powerful and safe feelings that come with our arousal and get those feelings whenever we want/need them. Our fear is we don’t know how to survive without them (hmmmm, like water). Add to that if we don’t use porn to relieve the unwanted desires, they seem to grow and take control of us. This doesn’t justify porn. It just explains why he feels it’s so hugely important. When he stops porn he feels like he’s dying of thirst and can’t live without it. He didn’t say you’re not important. I think he’s saying he’s very afraid of what happens to himself when he tries to stop. Instead of ultimatums I’d suggest exploring why he needs to self-medicate so much, identifying what he’s really been “thirsty” for his whole life, and finding healthy ways to get it. A big caution though, he doesn’t know the answers and as long as he’s addicted to porn he thinks that it’s the only answer.

 

It was two years from the time my wife became aware of my PM until I got serious about getting well. She told me how it made her feel and I found ways to rationalize my use to myself over and over again. I told myself I needed it. I am so much happier since I finally decided to give a try at doing without. This life, not that life, is what God intended for me and my wife, but I needed to see that.

 

Beautiful, @Hooked. That's a decent summary of my experience as well.
Many of us can "me three" ditto this as the better life

 

I knew the side affects to myself and to my marriage but it didn't matter to me so much because that quick little cheap thrill was all I wanted. For some people rationalizing it or oversimplifying it is an attempt to keep from loosing your addiction, if you make it sound like it's no big deal then it must not be right. In the end we must face the dark areas in ourselves to truly move forward past the problems in our lives.

 

Reading all these comments... my stomach is turning. Just a reminder: you don't know this man and you are not psychologists. Instead of blaming him of anything I think it is way more helpful to show interest in him with kindness. It seems like we are all so much focused on abstaining from PM(O) that anybody who doesn't is just a stupid idiot. Not everybody is you and not everybody carries the same morals.

Sorry I don't really have a solution. I really do believe in NoFap though, don't get me wrong. I just think people are overly focused on converting him and pushing their own world views.

 

It was harmless (from his pov and in his experience) when he started as a child. It is an old habit and so part of his routine, personality, identity and moral outlook. Over time, in yohr relationship, it was likely a topic that was not brought up often, because no matter how harmless it had become over the years in his eyes, he knew it would harm you to hear about it. His habit has always been an element of your relationship, no matter how hidden it was, and to shift his own perspective and think of P use as a betrayal is difficult: it is horrific to think how many times I have betrayed my wife over the years, and so to preserve my self image I have tried to convince myself that P is harmless. It isnt hard to convince yourself of this when looking at your male friends or men as a whole: most of us do it. That does NOT mean it is harmless. It means that most men have partners who are either being routinely hurt, or who would have to endure all of that suffering in one blow upon discovering their secretive habit.

Ask your partner to identify what it is that is appealing about porn. Some likely answers are that it is always in the mood, never says no, is open minded and willing to do anything no matter how weird, difficult or degrading. An answer that youbare unlikely to get, but that is a likely element, is that sex with other women is appealing, and the ability to explore this without actually having an affair feels safe. Upon accepting that the desire to be with other women is am element of his interest in P, it is impossible not to see how much hurt he is causing through his habit. If he feels scared or unable to share all of his deepest, darkest sexual desires with you and turns to porn instead, then quitting P may help him be truly open and vulnerable with you to the greatest extent ever. This can lead to a much more fulfilling sex life for you both. His p use may be to help him experience, indirectly, things that he would much rather experience with you.

It takes a while for the perspective shift, but it will happen. If you make the sustained effort to understand his thinking and feelings around P, whilst insisting on being heard and explaining your own, you can work through this. Communication is important.

Good luck in your journey together.