Masturbating once is not a "relapse" it's a "reset" - Risky/excessive masturbation can be a relapse.

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by Alexander, May 30, 2018.

  1. Mordobarn

    Mordobarn Fapstronaut

    "Reset" just means that you reset your counter to zero. You do this whether you've had a small slip or a major relapse.
     
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  2. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Sexology is a joke nowadays, many "experts" also think porn is ok and even recommend it to "broaden the horizons". Also, the official stance for gender identity disorder is that a man thinking he's a woman is actually a woman and he should transition... and many more.

    Masturbation was never ok, it's only a very recent "revelation" that's it's normal and healthy, even though it's neither.
     
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  3. hold152

    hold152 Fapstronaut

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    Good piece of advice there bro, it really helps to clarify the differences
     
  4. Mordobarn

    Mordobarn Fapstronaut

    I wonder if that depends on where you live? Where I live, your statement would be considered laughably simplistic and wildly inaccurate.
     
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  5. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Gladly i live in a (still sane) country, but in the US it's mostly heresy to suggest transgenderism is mental disease and that transitioning is mutilation. In UK, the NHS (National Health Service) issued the green light on transitioning as treatment for gender dysphoria https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/ and a doctor that said sex is assigned at birth was kicked out of the medical system https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/08/government-drops-doctor-says-gender-given-birth/

    Sweden has rules on this too but i don't want to waste time searching again and so do many other countries.

    To get back on topic, there is 0 proof masturbation is normal and/or needed for sexual development. We already know some tribes don't even know how to masturbate yet they have sex multiple times per night. And 99.99999% of animals don't masturbate either.
     
  6. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    There is not much proof masturbation is abnormal and there is even more proof that masturbation is normal. A majority of the human population masturbates. Human babies masturbate. There is nothing wrong with healthy masturbation. Healthy masturbation is M without P and without fantasizing. I agree with you that 1 hour of M is not healthy. I agree with you that M with P/fantasizing is unhealthy. I agree with you that most people on NoFap should probably not M, but not everyone has the same level of addiction.

    Are parents masturbating in front of their babies? I don't think so.

    He is saying it's a reset, not relapse, if M is without P or fantasizing.
     
  7. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    It's the other way around and i've already covered this with you. Masturbation in nature is virtually unheard of, and the closest relatives we have do not masturbate or do it rarely and extremely rarely to completion. Only promiscuous monkey species masturbate commonly and the males that masturbate are lower in social rank and mate less. And humans are not promiscuous species anyway, humans are mono or polygamous.

    You're now being purposely deceitful because i've already showed you that there is no proof that infant masturbation is a common behavior, it's just proof it exists (like conjointed twins exist also, so do babies with one arm etc. Even stillborn babies exist.. is being stillborn "normal"?). There is no randomized study on infant masturbation.

    No proof of that. But there is proof some tribes don't even know how to masturbate or have a word for it, yet they thrive sexually, f#% multiple times per night.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  8. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    We are not monkeys, but anywas animals edge/M also... https://gizmodo.com/9-animals-that-masturbate-other-than-humans-1723592357

    There is also no proof that it is uncommon.

    Most of the world masturbates. I'm sure there might be a tribe that doesn't (hard to believe), but you're basically saying the majority of the world is unhealthy because they M. That cannot be true.
     
  9. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I've already covered that link for you in the other topic, why are you doing this? The same way as the baby thing you don't understand.... just because there have been instances of some animals masturbating in a species does not make masturbation common for that species. This is basic statistics that you still don't understand. The same holds true for the whole animal kingdom - just because some species (not proven) masturbate, does not make masturbation common among animals.

    That article intentionally makes it look like monkeys, as a WHOLE group of species, masturbate. This is an outright lie, some species of monkeys are monogamous and never ever masturbate, and in general masturbation is not common at all in monkeys except promiscuous species. The monkey masturbation is the most vile example because monkeys are very close to humans and when people see masturbation portrayed like that, it makes them think it's normal for humans.

    You said it's common, you have to provide proof for it being common, proof that does not exist.

    No proof, most studies are done in the US. Others in other countries showed lower or varying masturbation rates.

    No, it is proof that masturbation is not a necessary part of human sexuality.
     
  10. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    I've literally seen a monkey masturbate in front of me. It must not be very rare.

    I disagree

    https://www.thelocal.ch/20111206/1956
    "A survey by dating site C-Date found that 92 percent of Swiss men and 72 percent of Swiss women "regularly" pleasure themselves, putting the Alpine nation at the vanguard of international self-service.

    Far from being stereotypical goody two-shoes, the Swiss came out right on top in the survey of 5,670 people in 10 European countries plus Brazil."

    Also no proof that it's uncommon. We both agree it exists. There are also studies showing that infants that were followed for years showed no problems in their health as they grew older.

    First, I don't see your proof. Second, if it exists, it's just proof that one tribe of people do not M. It doesn't change the fact that most people in the world M. It doesn't matter if it's necessary or not.
     
  11. john1780

    john1780 Fapstronaut

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    I think what alexander means is that you still have all the progress even after a a "reset" after 30 days so your still not slipping back into your old ways, and he didnt say it was normal (this is jist my interpitation)
     
  12. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    That's true, but did say it was normal and compared it to eating apples. He said, "Eating apples non-excessively isn't considered unhealthy to medical professionals. Same with non-excessively masturbating. Non-excessively masturbating is considered normal behavior."

    For some reason people take a really extreme view on M, I get it because it's associated with the addiction of P. I'm not saying people who are trying to reboot should M, but after a reboot why not. Even during a reboot (unless you know yourself and you know your addiction will get the better of you). But I think it's important to distinguish what the real problem is, and that's P.
     
  13. john1780

    john1780 Fapstronaut

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    I guess its different for everyone some people think porn is normal (obviously not) or masturbation but it all depends on you your religous beliefs and even who raised you, there is no way to prove if its normal
    or not
     
  14. GettingAGrip

    GettingAGrip Fapstronaut

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    I got on this morning to write a post then read your post and I wanna thank you.

    I've been porn-free for 200 days now, I started getting out of flatline at around day 75 and could have sex again, urges were gone, etc.
    I did masturbate here and there with no problem or negative effects on my sex life.
    I have been working out and doing great and I haven't had sex in about 2 months so I have masturbated a little more than usual while fantasizing, which I think where I went wrong and lead to this "situation" below, as I'm not going to call it a relapse just yet.

    Yesterday and the day before I tried having intercourse and I could not get hard at all. It was like the first days of no PMO.
    I was going to consider it a relapse and come to terms with it then I read your post. If anyone has an advice on what I could do to help, I'm more than happy to hear it.

    Also, my advice to everyone who struggle with self-control, stay off social media.
    No Instagram, no Facebook, no unnecessary social media and internet browsing. Keep yourself busy and don't be lazy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  15. Mordobarn

    Mordobarn Fapstronaut

    Unfortunately, that isn't a sensible comparison in this context. When dealing with an addict, it's more like eating an entire cake for someone with an eating disorder.

    That's according to said professionals, and is in relation to non-addicts. That doesn't apply to the people on here, does it? We are addicts.

    I think that this has to be up to each individual to assess their own situation and feelings. What works for one might work against another.
     
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  16. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    I guess I would define myself as an addict, although I'm not sure, because for me it's been very easy to avoid P and M without P or fantasizing once in a while (like 1-2x every 1-2 weeks). I'm sure Alexander would define himself as an addict as well, he is also saying it's ok. So, that's hard to answer, because I know some people on here will have a much more addictive personality and they may not have the self-control. If I had to guess, yes most people on here probably shouldn't M prior to rebooting, but after (maybe?) it really depends on an individual basis.
    Exactly and absolutely true
     
  17. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    That just confirms you have no idea how statistics work and this is pointless.

    Of course you disagree, you've been pointlessly disagreeing for a while now. That is not a study, that is a survey on a specific pool (dating site). Which is not random sampling. Which 100% confirms you have no idea how statistics and sampling work. Given it's a dating site where predominantly single men (and women) commingle, it's absolutely expected to show a heavy bias towards masturbation...

    That is the proof. Because if masturbation was necessary, we would've seen it in every single person/population. The same way if there was a group of people that could live without drinking water, it would be proof that drinking water is not necessary for human survival/fitness.
     
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  18. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    I have a pretty good idea about how it works, you just like to disprove the obvious. Here's your proof, I'd like to see what you say next...
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29987546
    Sexual Activity and Sexual Satisfaction Among Older Adults in Four European Countries.
    "...population aged 60-75 years recruited by phone registers in Norway (676 men, 594 women), Denmark (530 men, 515 women), Belgium (318 men, 672 women), and Portugal (236 men, 273 women)...Masturbation was most commonly reported among Norwegian men (65%) and women (40%)...".
    Now, please realize the sample was 60-75 year old people, at this age you wouldn't expect so many to masturbate would you? Would you deny that the majority of Norwegians are masturbating. Do you deny that the majority of Americans are masturbating (has nothing to do with this study)?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27366863
    "Gender, Sexuality, and Relationships in Young Hispanic People.
    Gil-Llario MD1, Giménez C2, Ballester-Arnal R2, Cárdenas-López G3, Durán-Baca X3.
    Author information
    Abstract
    This study explores the relation between gender differences and sexuality among young Hispanic people. Eight hundred and forty young people from Spain and Mexico filled out a self-administered questionnaire about sexuality (sexual experience, sexual orientation, and sexual relationships) and gender (self-identification). Men in both Spain and Mexico more commonly report the practice of masturbation and vaginal sex, and are more likely to be unfaithful than women. Women in both countries report more steady partners and longer length of relationships. There were greater gender differences for Mexican men and women than for Spanish men and women in terms of sexual frequency, sexual orientation, and infidelity. Therefore, gender may play an important role in young people's sexuality, more so in Mexico than in Spain."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25376999
    "Masturbation, paying for sex, and other sexual activities: the Second Australian Study of Health and Relationships.

    Abstract
    Background This study describes the prevalence of (solo) masturbation, paying for sex and a range of other sexual practices among Australians.

    METHODS:
    A representative sample of 20094 men and women aged 16-69 years (participation rate among eligible people, 66.2%) were recruited by landline and mobile phone random-digit dialling and computer-assisted telephone interviews in 2012-13.

    RESULTS:
    Many respondents (men, 72%; women, 42%) had masturbated in the past year. Half (51%) of the men and 24% of women had masturbated in the past 4 weeks. In the past year, more than two-fifths of respondents (men, 63%; women, 20%) had looked at pornography in any medium. Approximately 15% of men and 21% of women had used a sex toy. Digital-anal stimulation with a partner was practised by 19% of men and 15% of women, and oral-anal stimulation by 7% of men and 4% of women. Sexual role playing or dressing up were engaged in by 7-8%. Online sex, swinging, group sex, BDSM (bondage and discipline, 'sadomasochism' or dominance and submission) and fisting (rectal or vaginal) were each engaged in by less than 3% of the sample. Seventeen per cent of men said they had ever paid for sex; 2% had done so in the past year."

    I think we can pretty much conclude that most men M. Yes, I'm going to disagree with you saying that M is not common, I don't understand why you deny it.

    I never said M is necessary for human survival or fitness. I'm saying it's normal if done without P or fantasizing and can be healthy if done without excess.

    I'm looking forward to our continued respectful discussion. Thank you.
     
  19. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    The only sturdy study is the last one, the Australian one, with a very large (20k) and representative sample size. This however does not contradict what i have been saying, masturbation is much more common in westernized countries and populations and even there it's nowhere near as high as it's suggested to be by the media.

    These are the tables that are most relevant https://imgur.com/a/uvrypus that show that masturbation is being LEARNED. And that it keeps going up. With homosexual/bisexual/crossdress behavior also. Last table comes from a national representative sample in China https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17710524

    You can see that in Australia mean numbers from 2001 (ASHR1) to 2013 (ASHR2) got up 12% from 64.6% to 76.6%, so masturbation increased by 18% in 12 years. Which is absolutely incredible (and bad).

    You can also see how far behind China (that lags in getting westernized) lags when it comes to masturbation. So, like i've been saying all along, masturbation is abnormal, it's just learned/conditioned behavior due to many factors.
     
  20. diesel2256

    diesel2256 Fapstronaut

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    IMO, it's irrelevant how common masturbation is in the current year. The question we need to be asking is it a healthy behavior -- not only for the individual but for the society. Drug use is common, alcoholism is common, divorce is common, violence is common.
     
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