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Is porn good but we just abuse it?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Blackenglish2017, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Alcohol and porn are different in kind. If porn is inherently vicious [the same can not be said of a glass of wine], then the rule 'all things in moderation' does not apply.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  2. No, and I'll tell you why:

    Just as Death and Destruction are never satisfied, neither are human eyes.

    Porn always leaves you wanting more.
     
  3. What's the difference? I'm disagreeing with you that porn is "inherently viscous." Both are legal and have age restrictions. Both have existed in various forms since civilization learned to brew alcohol and draw pictures. The "normal" adult consumer of alcohol can have a glass of wine with no ill effects and some benefits. Would it be wise to give an alcoholic a single glass of wine? No. Can a "normal" adult consumer of porn look at soft core pics with no ill effects? Don't see why not. Would it be wise to let a porn addict look at the same pictures? No. Stop blaming objects and ideas. We're addicts because we CAN'T use porn in moderation. Alcohol abuse probably ruins just as many marriages as porn does, and it's definitely killing more people directly than porn. Gambling is probably a better comparison because it involves the same dopamine pathways, it can fuel seedy/organized crime, and it falls into a moral gray area. Same conclusion though. Some people get addicted to it, and some don't.
     
  4. No I don't.
     
  5. I would agree with you. Can alcohol destroy people's lives?
     
  6. Yes it can, just like porn can. Porn and alcohol are different, it's rare to find people out there who can view porn in moderation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2017
  7. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    From a previous post:

    Porn is in no way like alcohol. To think it is, you would either be of the prohibitionist persuasion [a Puritan], or of the 'everything in moderation' school. And a curse on both houses.

    Here's the crucial difference - alcohol is not an inherently vicious thing, a glass of wine is a good in life... but too much of a good thing and you get the problem. This is where 'everything in moderation' applies.

    Porn is different. It is not a good, but an inherently vicious thing/ activity. 'Everything in moderation' does not apply to vice/ vicious activities [a la Aristotle]. They are to be completely avoided in order to live the Good Life.

    The puritans lost the ability to draw important distinctions such as these.. indeed the ability to draw distinctions in general. They lived by rigid literal black and white rules. But today, we similarly are lacking the ability to draw distinctions, and so we think everything in moderation, with no discrimination* between vicious and virtuous activities. This is understandable given that Puritanism was the fore-runner of Rationalism.

    *discrimination.... from discrimen = boundary... the practical/ intellectual ability to draw distinctions
    Notice how this word 'discrimination' is used in a negative/ pejorative sense today. This reflects the dumbing down of our mass culture.

    And also:

    1] I also don't think porn use is necessarily addictive. Still, I personally don't think this excuses people from using it. I can think it is morally wrong, for my own reasons, yet also think those reasons are universally valid given the nature of moral language. I don't consider porn bad only because it is potentially addictive... but because it's bad in itself. Morality only comes into it here as in the title of the thread you have the question whether porn can be good.
     
  8. Dude, your viewing it as "different" because it's your vice! There are plenty of people that can watch it in moderation. Of course, you won't find them on NoFap, or else they wouldn't be here ;). I think we can probably argue about this forever, so at this point I'm going to "agree to disagree."
     
  9. I am not either of these schools, because I don't believe in viewing the world through a black and white lens. I'm also with you that porn use is not necessarily addictive in the same way alcohol is. I see where you're coming from with the moral aspect, but an object does not have morality. You have morality. At the core, porn is simply a tangible object. It is a book, or a picture, or a video, some piece of media that's purpose is to elicit or express sexuality. You are placing intrinsic value on porn to make it adhere to your moral standards. Porn only becomes a vice (and a non-virtuous activity) when it is used in that manner. More about intrinsic value in the this link: http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Evil_Intrinsicism.html
     
    WreckTangle and Deleted Account like this.
  10. Agreed.
     
  11. Sometimes I wonder too.
    But I see I am good without it so what's the point.
     
  12. To start, stating a pornstar said it has saved many a marriage is not specific enough for anyone to take at face value. I'm not saying you're lying, but no one has really a lot of a reason to believe that.

    For spicing up the sex life between two people, look. I'm not really qualified to say if it does or if it doesn't, but I don't see why a couple would need porn to spice up a sex life. Communication seems equally effective to me.

    To answer the title question, I'd say no. It isn't. What sort of benefits could someone recieve from porn that wouldn't be equal to or better than being with a real person? A great number of people on here see major improvements in their lives by not even watching the stuff. If being better off without porn increases the quality of a person's life, why would it be worth watching? Feel me?
     
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  13. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Yes, I agree with a lot in that quote you provide - we have morality because we are moral beings, we have value because we value things.... there is always a context to our conversation.

    When we talk about pornography, we are not talking about it in purely abstract terms, but how it relates to people [given the point you raise, I could have added the drinking of a glass of wine is not 'vicious'... or the viewing of a piece of pornography is 'vicious'. But I think this language is obvious and accordingly redundant].

    So the activity of viewing pornography is inherently bad/ vicious [the term 'pornography itself implies a larger context... a function and a consumer/ voyeur]. I'm using moral language here, and would then give some principles of universal morality to say why that is so... or why such language is possible. Kant would be an example - he'd argue that by virtue of being a moral rational agent, we are structurally conditioned to think of some things/ activities/ experiences as 'objectively' good and others as bad. I could then go on some reasons.

    I think the problem that your link highlights is only raised because of the distinctions commonly drawn today between facts and values, between objectivity and subjectivity. It is why we struggle to think of morality in universal terms... even though the actual use of language and moral thought constrains us to do so. Yes, all moral language is relative to those that think... in the first person.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  14. ask the porn stars if porn is bad or good. they will tell you.
     
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  15. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Kantian morality and the 'golden rule' would say never use people as a means to an end. Of course, this kind of morality calls into question our whole way of life. In modern economies today, people have been habituated to thinking of themselves as mere 'means'.

    Be careful what you wish for people - in rejecting pornography, you may also come to reject a whole lot more that has become normalized of late.:D
     
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  16. The article I pointed to also mentions a US study which reveals a higher percentage of college students reporting less empathy for rape victims after viewing hardcore pornography and belief in the myth that the victims actually enjoyed the experience. I think you have raised an interesting point about third world war torn countries, or any country for that matter that is in the grip of a bitter war, rape often becomes part of the weapon used against the people from both sides of a conflict, it is a very demoralising and inhumane symptom of war and i'm sure that the motives for the perpetrators in those situations doesn't stem from porn, more from violence and being in an inherrently vioent environment.

    I too have never considered forcing myself on any individual, in my head there is a very clear distinction between 'viewing content' and going out and forcing someone to comply with your demands. I think what we can both agree on is porn 'use' depending on the individual, can exacerbate underlying emotional problems, maybe act as a catalyst for anti social behaviour, in the sense of young people who view it and re-inforce addictive or compulsive patterns of behaviour at the detrement of the individuals well being, if that was not the case then no one would go out and seek to stop viewing it, i can only attest to the fact my life has improved as a result of giving up porn so there is some harm with porn, it is not innocuous like say an orange or an apple. My main issue is with people who don't aknowledge the fact that porn has ANY ill effects on people and that it is only ever a good thing, we all know that to be false.
     
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  17. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Worse than this, factor in the normalization of pornography, and the logic of certain institutions to downplay the report of rape [ruinous of their reputation in the marketplace], and you have fraternities in ivy league universities fostering a 'rape culture'. Check out the documentary to be found on Netflicks titled 'The Hunting Grounds'.

    Without the enforcement of laws [a real deterrent], even the 'best educated' are capable of savage acts. For a generation that is taught that 'greed is good', it is easy enough to think lust is also. And without the real deterrent of law.....

    Read Dosteovsky's novel 'Crime and Punishment' to see the thin line between sociability and criminality.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    thorswrath32 likes this.

  18. Thank you for the book recommendation, i'm always on the look out for interesting reads, i'll also check out the documentary on Netflix too. I agree that essentially a persons education doesn't necessarily prevent them from engaging in harmful acts neither does a law, although laws are obviously necessary, people do break them all the time otherwise, society wouldn't need law enforcement or courts and jurys to uphold those laws . I've known a few people in my life who lets say are a bit 'dodgy' but you could argue they are loveable rogue types and the kind of criminality they are involved in isn't going to grab any newspaper headlines, things like graffiti, pilfering a few things from their workplace, or a bit of wheeling and dealing in stuff that just happened to come into their posession, etc. Some of those kinds of behaviour are part of a lifestyle for people which i'm not condoning but in the grand scheme of things it's not likely to destroy their lives. Sex crimes on the other hand, well that's a whole different kettle of fish.
     
    Buzz Lightyear likes this.
  19. I don't get it.
     
  20. Pesto

    Pesto Fapstronaut

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    *Content Warning: PMO addicts don't read my post as it may make you give in*

    Had a 2 1/2 year streak of no porn and nearly 1 year of no M where like 120 days of that was Hardmode. Currently I've been PMOing for about 6 months. In my nofap journey I developed strongly my spiritually and my motivation/self-discipline. However I was doing this nofap journey while I was in a relationship. Once out of the relationship I was doing nofap for about 5 months after. Porn actually helped me move on from my ex. The nofap was kind of like I was still faithful to my ex, tying me to her emotionally when I had to release myself from her emotionally. So it was good there.

    Furthermore, after my using porn/masturbating again I realised that I was suppressing the fact that I am bisexual during the nofap journey. Now I accept my sexuality instead of suppressing homoerotic thoughts and I am finding that I am less socially withdrawn/anxious. Porn helped me accept that I am bisexual.

    All that being said, I'm on this website again because I feel like cutting out PMO again. No PMO really helps with all sorts of things. PMO hasn't really directly affected my functioning in life but I do feel that it can highly inhibit personal growth and development.
     

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