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Is masturbating without porn okay?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by rawrguy56, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    Porn and your fantasy are not the same. With porn you're dependent on an external source. That's the unnatural part that chains us. You start to NEED internet access and a computer to get something as basic as sexual release, that's what's bad.
    And no, it's not that porn gets substituted with your imagination, it was the other way around a long time ago, remember? When I started masturbating as a kid I had nothing BUT my imagination. There was nothing wrong with that, it was natural. That "practice" has been around for ten's of thousands of years, maybe even millions (who knows what goes through a monkey's brain when he's jerking his noodle?^^). Porn has only existed for roughly 50 years..

    And why should naughty thoughts be bad? We are human for crying out loud. Naughty thoughts are fantastic, they make life more enjoyable and don't harm anybody. They get you in touch with your sexuality.

    Are you going to stop to eat and drink too? No, because that's necessary for survival? Well if you extend survival to well-being you could argue that you're compulsed to have friendships, compulsed to watch some entertainment, compulsed to listen to music, etc..
    Evolution gave us lust and the compulsion to cum. Are we quitting pornography or are we fighting mother nature herself?
     
    Deleted Account and FrankAspie like this.
  2. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    I see no problem in MB per se. Young animals do it and so does homo sapiens. That being said, MB can become a problem when behavior has been linked with pornography for years or even decades. I've been compulsive PMO addict for nearly two decades now and every time I try to establish "healthy" MB pattern, it leads me back to pornography in no time, no matter how long I abstained. Once deep PMO neuropathway in brains has been created (deep learned behavior stored in "reptile" part of the brain not in frontal cortex) it is very questionable if it can be ever physically erased so that it can't be reopened when signal reappears. Latest neuroscience findings show that most probably not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  3. FrankAspie

    FrankAspie Fapstronaut

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    I've heard otherwise from "Isabelle Proulx" a Sexologist offering therapy in Quebec city.

    She said that people with PPU (problematic porn usage) can recover and still use porn after recovery, and be fine. Then, since that's the case for those people, I wouldn't see why these people couldn't just M without P if they wanted to. These people found out that they were using it as "coping" mechanism for a long time. And to the point that it was also for coping against hard feeling originating from overusing P itself. At that point, P does indeed feel luke a drug. Worst, is that you forget the real problems, as for you, your only problem is P.

    So you do need to abstain from it, and from any triggers (which M can be for sone people) until you can discover for yourself what feelings you've been numbing all along, and how to address them in a good way. Once people develop better coping mechanism, they can then re introduce sex (solitary or not) to rebuild a healhty sexuality. This sounds like this research here :
    "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for Problematic Internet Pornography Use - NCBI"

    This is one of the few research about a therapy that have numbers behind it btw. People that have done it found out that they were able to control their behavior. From there, they started to feel right about it, not fearing relapses because they M'ed. Thus not ruminating about the whole thing, which then turns into compulsion. This needs lots of work, and assistance from a good therapist. But it can be done, even for people that did P a lot.

    Now, that do not prove that some people cannot M without relapsing. But it proves that a good number that did that therapy were able to. I am sure some papers will say that observed that a group of P addict will relapse when they M. Same goes for those papers, does not prove that there is no way out for these guys. Maybe under a different setting, or therapy, things would have been different.

    I always wondered why they can O but not M without relapse. Same neuralpathways are hit. Only difference is contextual, and that is psychological thus should be flexible with some hard work.

    Myself I've seen therapists about M, two years after stopping P. I was affraid that it was bad that I couldn't stop M after I was in couple. (And this shouldn't be. It is a personal decision whether to M or not in couple). So I went to a sexologist. No addiction related therapy. Just talk therapy, where you get to find your own answers.

    The therapies made me realise that there is just no point to stop something harmless. In fact, they say it is more harmful to never M and O, than to M everu couple of days. I also didn't do P for almost 2years when I started, so I wasn't afraid of that. I know it is not so for everyone. Hence I talk for myself here. Hoping sone people will relate.

    I was ashamed of fantasies I had. However, I was okay with it, but unable to share it with my wife. That means I didnt feel guilty about the fantasies, but was ashamed of then(Thus I felt bad about telling about them, albiet by myself, it was fine).

    The therapy made me realise where they came from. When I was 13 yr old, some girl wanted to be my girlsfriend if I did her homeworks. I refused. She insisted... I couldn't understand she was doing, but she was already fondling my chest, and grabbed me between the legs. She said that I would really like it. I realised that she might be "violating me' so I should run, which I did. I hid from her for many weeks thereafter, keeping this for myself. (This was clearly bad. Because I was thinking only girls are vulnerable to this, I though it okay id it happened to me. This is not true and is called cognitive distortion.). Doing this, I was in denial, it went deep into my ming until I barely remembered it. This sort of things then happen:
    My first ever wetdreams started, first Os. It was nice, but the dreams was all related to that event somehow. When I started M, Pretty much all my fantasies were linked to that event. But I did not realise the connection. For me, it just was and thats it.

    Today, I'm not ashamed of all that anymore. I realised that all that time that I've M, I was merely recovering from this event thru those fantasie. I was desiring girls more and more again(Which was good as they were scaring me less and less). Albiet my fantasy was in Mild bdsm settings were I was told what to do. still, I was always fantasing stories where that women loved me, and respected me. It was just a game in my mind. I made it a game that I liked, and nothing more than a game.

    Now I look back at all this. And I can say there is no shame in all that. I did what I could as a teenager to develop my sexuality. I even was able to date my wife in 2008, still with her today.
    By accepting this part of me (That I an submissive, bdsm, etc), my sexuality is better. I can even have fantasies that isn't BDSM related at all! Merely because I won't feel bad deep inside me anymore.

    Through all that I also discovered that I have ADHD and asperger syndrome (mild autism). 99% of the therapies where about that and that traumatic event. And not about M itself!

    I learned so many things about fatherhood, feelings, how to hold good conversations, be assertive, etc that I feel better, way better about myself. I do feel better because I am addressing the issues underlying my feelings/worries.

    I used to be frustrated before, because I didn't know how to address many recuring issues, which could be as common as : someguy say hello in the caferia each morning... I am worried, because I wonder if I must just say Hello?, or star a conversation? or... whatever I decide to do, will the guy be mad at me? (social anxiety). Knowing I am autistic helps me not feel guilty about that, and guides me toward the right solutions.
     
    DickDidntWork likes this.
  4. David1221

    David1221 Fapstronaut

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    I think it goes hand in hand. If you’re a hardcore porn addict, then it’s just as worse as watching porn. Reason why is because your brain doesn’t actually know which is which, chemicals are still being sent out, which sends the brain the signal that your doing either two.

    If your not a hardcore addict, I don’t think it would cause that much of a problem. But it really does depend on your level of addiction and for how long
     
  5. marcosantana72

    marcosantana72 New Fapstronaut

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    [QUOTE = "rawrguy56, post: 116053, membro: 22878"] Eu sei que a pornografia é má e prejudicial para o cérebro. E eu sei que isso era um vício em pornografia e não em masturbação. Mas se eu me excito do nada e não uso pornografia, sinto que não há problema em MO sem pornografia porque a pornografia é o verdadeiro problema aqui. Eu só estava pensando. [/ CITAÇÕES]




    masturbating without porn is terrible, because you will be fantasizing about something and also because you will be activating your hot "yang" sexual energy without having a cold "yin" counterpart
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  6. Deysonn

    Deysonn Fapstronaut

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    I thing porn is the bigger problem, not masturbation however I do agree that masturbation can lead you back to porn. Also excessive masturbation can have a negative impact on your sexual experience with a person. If you think about it, your hand can never truly simulate the feel of a vagina and many persons grow accustomed to the feel of the hand and then realize some how actual intercouse is not as good.

    I also believe masturbation drains your sexual energy, energy you should be using for real sexual experiences. This can be harmful to relationships in my opinion, because you are more into sex with your partner if you have not been self pleasing. This translates into passion and making your partner feel desireable instead of thinking why does he not seem sexually interested in me.

    And if you are single, masturbation plus porn limits your desire to get out there and find yourself a partner. Instead you hide away at home with and satisfy your sexual urges instead of getting out there and building relationships.

    Sex is supposed to be a social experience, don't let porn and masturbation steal away one of lifes great pleasures!!
     
  7. Napav

    Napav Fapstronaut

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    NO, its not OK.
    First thing, still you will feel bad.
    Second, you will eventually watch more worse things and feel more bad.
    In any case, please brother don't even think about it.
    All the best :)
     
  8. Napav

    Napav Fapstronaut

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    Looks like you have read this : 6 years clean : Rebooting as the best remedy.
     
  9. adio 22

    adio 22 New Fapstronaut

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    I don't necessarily think that musterbation is related to porn, it is our minds that have perceived both as similar, although if you think about people undergoing puberty, a lot will fall into fantasising about and I feel that musterbation is not all that horrible as long as not muddled in with porn. I did not masturbate for half a year of not longer nor did I watch porn and for someone that had recently turned fifteen, I experience a lot of sexual fantasising as my hormones all bickering like birds inside of a little house. I feel that it is a wise choice to experiment with it and see how it goes because else you will never know. The people that say it did not work for them have the full right of believing that because that is how they function. Everyone is different.
     
  10. adio 22

    adio 22 New Fapstronaut

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    I believe that the problem lies in us simply abusing the act of musterbation and for some - including me - it feels easier to just stop it wholly rather than try to masturbate without watching porn. I feel if we really understand the difference and do not ever think of both as the same, this could be a completely different activity. This goes mainly for people like me who are going through puberty and cannot have sex for whatever reason. The only way you can achieve this is by experimenting, the choice is, you either stop entirely or experiment by exploring your own path. Sometimes it is easier to pick a clear path rather than exploring one which is more zig zagged and vague from distance. But whatever you do, do not link Porn into this, porn has not been here as long as musterbation and so it is no natural and has not place in this world or our lives. Thank you for your time. And to clarify, I am not leaning onto any side, both are wholly plausible to pick, just avoid porn in any form.
     
  11. The Real JokeErr

    The Real JokeErr Fapstronaut

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    Hi All,

    My 2 cents on this - I think M is not a natural process per say. Can you remember who taught you to M? Friend? Cousin? I am sure someone. This process is not wired in the human system, just like porn.
    Did someone taught you how to have sex? Think about it, we might have emulated a porn star or seen videos, but naturally, you will be able to get into an intimate relationship because it is hardwired in your system. Our natural instinct is to find food, shelter and reproduce. The act of sex is a survival mechanism. Human is a social animal and feels safer in groups. So we are wired to reproduce, not to M. When you are having sex, you are in the act and not thinking about the act (Porn addicts have this issue as well, they think of someone else while having sex) so this is way different than M.

    Mechanically, the act might be emulating sex, but it does lead you to the same effect as P.

    How? Because when you are watching Porn, you see so many near perfect partners willing to please you. You get the rush, and for the mind, it's easy, no perusing or dating, just wham bam and that's how we become addicted. Now, even doing M, you either think about these scenes Or think about your own experiences, in either case, same thing, multiple partners, in your head nothing in real. You assume that you are with X and Y and Z and so on. Same effect, Its all in your head and you are fooling the system to produce the same effect - O.

    M is a controversial topic, but I do respect all point of views. If you feel it is OK, go ahead it's your life. There is nothing wrong or right, just perspectives.
     
  12. RedLuscus

    RedLuscus New Fapstronaut

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    In my opinion, Masturbate without porn is ok cuz we are human at all and i dont know any man that control his D from get erect (i have not meet yet).
     
  13. If you do anything in such excess that it causes your mental and physical health to deteriorate, then it is not "good," so to speak. Many of us on NoFap do not have a problem with porn, but rather masturbation (porn is just a side effect). I include myself in that group. Are you jerking off such that your junk is losing sensitivity, you can't focus or think about anything other than sex, or you can't be intimate with people? Your answer to that question will determine whether you should reduce your MO frequency.
     
  14. LoneWolf987

    LoneWolf987 New Fapstronaut

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  15. LoneWolf987

    LoneWolf987 New Fapstronaut

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    There is no wrong after all nofap is for recover of imbalance. Which is porn addiction in this case , and masturbation is not wrong .but anything excess to our body is wrong ,which will result in imbalance to our body just like a addiction
     
  16. millz5231

    millz5231 Fapstronaut

    For me p is not the problem it's the MO. But honestly it's the MO that will lead you to the P eventually. So I know me and I know if I start masturbating with out porn it's going to lead me else where.
     
  17. 72jbjekapm

    72jbjekapm Fapstronaut

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    I know that this is an old post, but how has the M without the P been working for you. I want to use M for stress relief or to help me sleep, after I've gone about 6 months without PMO. Wife not always available, work schedules differ etc. Anybody with this experience please comment. I'm almost at 90 days and feel good about the path I've chosen, but read some earlier post from the beginning and realize the reason for the masterbation would be some of the acts that aren't met with the partner. I definitely would not want it to be a regular habit / addiction like the past. I have been so much more productive, and taking the initiative to learn and better myself, but I also enjoy self pleasure to help sleep. Any thoughts appreciated from people that have had success or failures with doing this.
     
  18. Bon-Bon XO

    Bon-Bon XO Fapstronaut

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    Personally, I think you can masturbate, just in moderation
     
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  19. Breaking away from PMO is damn hard - it takes serious discipline, focus and work over a long time. If you are able to not watch porn that is a step in the right direction and is not a full relapse imo. It's definitely progress, but obviously still bad.
     
  20. redhalon

    redhalon Fapstronaut

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    IMO mo when you are really horny and not just bored is not a relape at all. Its P thats the problem. Think about it, without P and only MO you probably wouldnt end up in the place you are right now in a forum about fapping
     

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