How do I talk to women?

Do you just have trouble speaking with women? You don't have trouble speaking with men,stranger's,or people with perceived higher authority?

 

Why do you have to act cool or any differently from how you act normally?

You're basically placing them above you and you below them. Then you try to act in a way you think they'll like you for in order to close the gap that you believe exists between you and women.

You're not treating them like any other person. Like any other complete human being. You're treating them like something that needs to be attained, won over, impressed, or manipulate. You're not being real around them and you're not treating them like a real person.

If you have no problem talking to everyone else, then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to talk to women unless you have the above beliefs towards them.

 

Talk to women like you talk to anyone else. If that doesn't feel confortable with you then maybe its time to start changing how you talk to everyone else.

 

That's the problem. You're trying to be liked by all of them. So you end up acting in a way that you think they would like you for. Which has the opposite effect. Acting as you normally would is scary and difficult because you're allowing them to decide for themselves whether or not they like you rather than trying to control / manipulate their decision.

Experience plays a being part in this. Experience would tell you that depending your self worth on another person's reaction towards you is foolish. Experience would tell you that just because someone has great physical attributes doesn't mean that they're better than you or that they would make a great person to be around. Experience would tell you that women are flawed and imperfect human beings like everyone else.

It's good that you're catching this now. You say that you're 20 years old with the experience of an 8th grader. If you keep avoiding this problem, then one day you'll be 30 or 40 years old with the same problem. People like this develop problems communicating with adults and may end up resenting them.

You want to gain experience, but you don't have the confidence to do so. You want confidence, but you don't have the experience to do so.

Repeated competence leads to confidence, but you don't have the confidence to gain the competence. With anything that's outside your comfort zone or certainty you start out incompetent and insecure. It takes courage to challenge the scary, difficult, and uncertainties of life. So it's not confidence that you need right now. It's courage. Repeated courage leads to competence. Repeated competence leads to confidence. The courage to make mistakes, fail, get rejected, say and do the wrong things, to fuck up repeatedly until you gain the necessary experience that teaches you how to do things the right way.

A lot of people want to jump straight to the competent and confident zone. Which is basically perfectionism. Waiting for a guarantee (in a reality that offers none) before taking action. Which leads to procrastination. Which leads to the predicament you are facing now. The solution isn't to magically gain confidence before starting. The solution is to accept where you're at right now and all the things you currently lack, but are working towards. Accept that you're incompetent and insecure with this. Accept that it's going to take courage to repeatedly fail in order to get good at this (and with anything else you want to get competent and confident with).

Not many people are willing to do this though. That's why there's things like porn addiction. Porn offers an escape from reality's problems. It offers an easy, certain, and instant gratification way out from life's pain, problems, uncertainties, difficulties, awkward, unideal, messy, scary, and negative experiences.

So on this journey of yours, you have to place importance on the right things. Place less importance on being smooth, perfect, positive experiences, or getting things right every time. Place less importance on other people's reactions or whether or not they like you. Place more importance on doing the scary and difficult things that you know you should be doing to become the person you want to be and to have the life that you want to have. Place more importance on doing things that make you proud of yourself despite the outcome. Learn to become comfortable with rejection and failure because that's how you get better.

You have to start before you’re ready. You can’t arrive at perfect BEFORE you start. This thing you call “perfect” is the result of multiple failures, several adjustments, consistency, and the eventual understanding that perfect doesn’t actually exist at all.

Start talking to every adult female you see wherever you go in your daily life. You have to push and work for that courage, competence, and confidence. There's no easy guarantee to develop yourself and your reality. You have to do something that might not work in order to gain the experiences you need to know what does work.

After you've gained the competence, confidence, and enough experiences, you'll see that you don't have to act differently around women. You don't have to control them or be afraid of their reactions. You'll see that they're just people like everyone else. There's no above or below. Everyone is on the same level. Not everyone will like you just like you won't like everyone.

 

Well if you stay of the porn I think your attitude and the way you speak to women will change and improve. Im new to this myself so lets see how it goes for you

 

I was exactly the same as you growing up. I think it is because my MBTI type is INTJ, my mind just works that way.
I know you may have heard bad things about this community but the best community to teach you how to speak to women is the pickup community. Trust me, I had never done anything sexual before learning about PUA and game. I'd recommend daygame but if you like clubs then do nightgame too.

Read: "The Game" by Neil Strauss
Watch: "Tom Torero" on youtube for the London Daygame Model

Ignore all the inner game advice of being yourself and all that. We can't simply be ourselves around women, its not that easy when we've grown up this way. We need methods and tactics to LEARN how to be ourselves around women. The BEST version of ourselves!

 

You're welcome.

Yes. You're very concerned about yourself right now. Which doesn't allow you to see things beyond yourself.

You don't have to play it safe. You don't have to control the situations and people around you. You don't have to prepare for the unknown. Let go of the story that you're not supposed to fail or get rejected. Let go of the delusion that everything in your life is supposed to work out and that everyone is supposed to be interested in you. That you're supposed to be smooth, cool, and perfect.

If you're attached to a specific outcome, then you're already fucked. Because you won't allow yourself to gain experience via failure and rejection. You'll reinforce the belief that you can't handle whatever happens. That you need easy, certain, and instant gratification escapism from the pain, problems, and negative experiences of reality. That you NEED this to work because you won't be able to handle the alternative. You won't allow yourself to begin or follow through on the courage - competence - confidence process.

You have to accept that not everything works out in life. That not everyone will be interested in you. That you'll probably fuck up, do the wrong things, say the wrong things, look foolish, and get rejected. That you're uncertain with the outcomes. That you don't really know what you're doing. These are the things you have to get comfortable with. It's called self acceptance. Accepting where you're currently at and all the things you currently lack. This vulnerability is the repeated courage you need to create competence and confidence.

 

What you described is some level of social anxiety and i have that too. I know exactly how you feel because i had the same experiences in life that you described. When i was talking to a girl, I was constantly in my head trying to think what to say and what to do to make myself seem interesting, to make myself look cool and I was looking at that girl like someone who is judging me and criticizing me and like someone who i need to entertain and of course doing all that with the feeling that i am not good enough and that i am not worthy enough. But what i found out is that my porn addiction might be the cause of that social anxiety, i am on day 21 right now and my social anxiety is really getting better, i still experience it on some level but it is drastically reduced. Now i can talk to women without that big fear and i am not looking at them as someone who is judging me but as someone who is human being just as I am. I think the cause of that social anxiety is really low self-confidence and getting rid of PMO in your life will definitely improve your self-confidence and you'll have less social anxiety. So i suggest you to stay away from porn. But just staying off porn won't make that problem dissappear, you have to constatly push yourself out of your comfort zone and start talking to girls and facing that fear, and eventualy that fear will begin to fade and you will crush that social anxiety. I mean that's what's working for me. Hope this was helpful

 

The coolest thing you can do when trying to be around or talk to a woman is just be yourself. If you're constantly trying to do or say something different than normal to "look cool" around someone all that's gonna happen is youre going to feel like youre living a lie. That feeling alone can put so much weight on a person that, regardless of any other problems or issues you might be experiencing, you'll never be able to live a full happy life.

 

Well said.

It reinforces the belief that you're someone that needs to lie, deceive, manipulate, and convince others to be interested in you. That you're not someone that's able to handle rejection, failure, pain, problems, and negative experiences. That you're someone that lives in a perfect, deluded, fantasy world rather than the reality where not everyone will be interested in you just like you won't be interested in everyone that you meet. It reinforces that you're someone that needs a bag of tricks in order to become something more than who you usually are. Someone that isn't worthy or acceptable unless you can trick someone to liking a fake version of yourself. It reinforces that you need someone to like you for someone that you aren't in order for you to have some sort of self worth. You'll always be watching what you say or do. Always trying to convince, compensate, and perform for others. Always in fear that they will see the real you. Always hiding and maneuvering around others. This all reinforces cowardly behavior, feelings, and thoughts.

 

Be sure to project your voice as this is a sign of confidence.

 

Seriously though. The only, way to build your social skills is to PRACTICE. I wanted to improve with my skills all around but I also wanted to be better with women. I was working alot so everyday I started conversations with the people in the elevator, no matter how many people were on the elevator. I was emmediately surprised by how easy it was. I saw that the occasional akwardness never killed me and It was really all in my head. Soon starting conversations with strangers became as natural as breathing and I started doing this everywere I went. It helped me get over myself and as a result I learned to enjoy the people around me, not act like they're not there like some wierdo.

I would take a look at some of the PUA stuff as it did help me but after conversing with strangers became natural, talking to hot chicks became natural so when I encountered then in public or made eye contact, saying hello, or smiling or making a funny comment came out smooth and natural and didnt seem forced.

If youre at level 0, you need to bite the bullet, get over your fears and prepare to face the awkwardness and look like shit. If you dont have the balls to do this, youll never get better. If you do, youll improve and laugh at yourself for ever being scared in the first place.

 

This is the sort of comment that misses the point. Simply "being yourself" is not helpful advice to someone who is at level 0. They may not know how to be themselves without first learning confidence and social skills. I was this way, I could be myself around friends and family but not women. PUA involves some lying, deceiving and manipulating to be interested in you yes because at the moment, the individual is making boring conversation in a monotone voice. Learning to speak more charismatic, learning to be a better story-teller and learning to be an attractive male will obviously help!
PUA never says that everyone will be interested in you, that's marketing techniques. If you read the original works of the community then you would understand this. PUA teaches you techniques that will help you grow in confidence and become attractive to women. Attraction is concrete (read red pill for more information on the subject). Women are attracted to certain qualities in males and those qualities will be taught and enhanced through learning to become a pick-up artist. You need to learn to ride a bike with stabilizers before you can ride on your own. "Just be yourself" and "Just be natural" is simply mental masturbation and unhelpful for someone in OP's position.

 

Remove the physical presence of yourself from the equation. How would you talk to someone via instant messaging or a phone call? Start there. Remove the things that make you self conscious around people, anxiety will follow.

 

Practice is everything, just keep with it even if it be hard.