How did you tell your SO? What did you say? How did they react?

This is tough...

First do you know what kind of beliefs she has about porn, erotica, or sex in general?

There are two thoughts here.

1. Tell her, and let her know what is going on. She may already feel insecure and feeling like you are withdrawing. Coming out can communicate to her why. It's important on how you phrase this, so that it doesn't come across as something that she feels attacks her worth.

- it would be important to communicate how long this has gone on, especially if this has gone back well before your relationship

- It would also be important to disclose if this is just videos/pics, or if there are sex workers, chat channels, phone sex involved

- It is important to explain to know if you are just attracted to sex (which porn shows), or if you feel it's driven you to want escape from the boundaries of your commitments. (Hopefully it's the first).

- It's important not to downplay the struggle. Don't treat this as 'something you do ever so often'. Let her know how real your need is. Tell her why you want to change.

- Unless she really wants to know, don't show her the actual content. You would have to possess a high degree of enlightenment, and be able to explain exactly what you are attracted to. Unfortunately the images will speak to every fear and insecurity she has. It's definitely not material relevant to the conversation.

- It's important to discuss what your solutions are, and what plans you have. Don't put it on her.

- Be prepared to answer very honestly to her questions. Be ready to receive backlash, and possible admissions of her own. (Don't judge either way).

or...

2. There are some wife's that you would just be cruel to tell. (It depends on knowledge of yourself as well) In a long term marriage, with a woman that in poor physical health, or frail mental health, or simple were helpless because she has no resources of her own to draw upon (and perhaps has strong beliefs in religion, insecurity about sex as being indecent (private), or who has suffered past traumas of sexual abuse). While you should always be open to communicate with your partner, I acknowledge that there may be exceptions where telling her may make her more a victim and hold her even more cruelly and abusively in a place unable to escape. (But it is still important that you take action to give her choices)

- That being said, you are also holding her hostage from making changes in her life because she doesn't know the facts. If she felt this strongly, you've already done the deed that caused the end, and it's time to face up to the music. Every day you wait is a day you stole from her life, a day that you denied her time to recover and having a happy life without you. (In a way this makes you a murder, but slowly taking her life).

- If you have no intention of changing, and you are currently lying to her, withholding affection, trying to hold her to the standards you see in porn, or cheating with sex workers, or partners outside the marriage (again, you withholding the truth is making her an unknowing victim, and you need to own that, and face up to it, and make plans to leave the situation as fairly as possible)

I personally believe in option 1 of tell her, but I also believe in being with strong partners that are my equal. But I've met some that I felt that the partners admission was more of an abusive act than a path to reconciliation.


As a story.... I found out my wife of 17 years was cheating on me (after we separated). It came to me by accident by someone who thought I knew. It started me wanting to know 'the truth', and I sought out to poll her. She of course lied. I eventually had someone later tell me that it was a history that had gone on much longer than I had thought. (so felt like it was a fresh violation), and I investigated again. I wanted to know 'the truth'. Finally in a bit of obsessive cleverness, I found she had a sex blog sharing pictures, and acting as a public place to flirt with her long term affair (and offering new partners to seek her out through KIK). At that point, I was broken. (She had told me her sexual function was slowed because of her hormones leaving us with almost no intimacy), and I find a sex blog going back for 8 years, with nearly every day posts. (I was sickened. In a very real way it suddenly connected all that porn I had watched to a real person, and that being my ex-wife, that alone made suddenly violently ill, and I couldn't bring myself to look at the web for months).

- I felt she had robbed me every day she decided to engage in this behavior, which in fact went back the beginning of our relationship (she had never fully told me the truth)

- Because she has so frequently lied and refused to own the truth, I am not entirely sure my youngest son is my own. I'm left not knowing if 17 years of my life were in fact anything I thought they were. I have no way to ever trust anything that comes out of her mouth for the rest of my life.

- She used these lies to manipulate me. I felt like I was at fault for being angry/disappointed that she 'couldn't'/'wouldn't sexually connect with me when I needed it. I had thought my needs were shallow, lustful, and that my PMO use was ill and wrong.

- Because of her lies, I had to get a full STD test for the first time in my life. (Negative thankfully) She said she always was very careful to engage in behavior that was not threatening to our marriage.

- Once I found the sex blog, I finally knew too much without knowing everything. Anything beyond that was just excessively cruel. (The blog itself in its existence was cruel). I couldn't bring myself to read more than the first existing page to see how far back it went, and the latest page to see that it was still active. (I immediately blocked it from my computer, and told her my discovery so she could take it down, where I would never been tempted to go looking at it again. (It was just too toxic). Mentally, I had to put up a boundary, and I no longer want to discuss or investigate her past, I don't want a recount or timeline, nor do I care. It is what it was, and now I am what I am. The two aren't related, so I don't need to know the extent of her lies to be who I want to be now.

- I do think she did well to shape things to where she could exit without destroying me. I was in a decent place, and I got to keep my house, custody of my kids, and most of my financial accomplishments.

- I think that having the discoveries spaced out rather than at a single moment was both cruel and helpful. I was able to deal with it, but I had wished I only had to go through one blow, instead of 4-5 months of blows and discoveries. (I think she was trying to spare me, but sucked at it, because her lies had go on so long and so openly)


I have no idea what wisdom you can draw from this. I don't consider PMO the same as cheating. But it's awfully similar, and to many women it's worse.

If you do want a description of what porn is, that may sound intellectually acceptable for your partner. I can provide one, from another post I did.

 

Look I know you will get urge no matter how far you are and one day you will relapse again and then you will try again and you will relapse again I know it will 100% going to happen... Why?
Because your mindsets and imagination are been spoiled by the pornoghraphic images that are Been saved in your mind
..... Iam gonna tell you something that is the ultimate truth and the reality...
You can't leave or degrade Masturbation in your life cux your mindset is weak and your sitting vulnerable to porn because you are weak if I will ask for your opinion about you Ppls will say no it's bad thing but inside you will feel guilty and lair ... And I know you Ppls are weak in everything your studies and you are failing your exams your grades are falling down like water I know and you Ppls will understand that that after when you will get poor jobs low income and difficulties in your life those hardships will make you forget about porn and you will work harder and harder then you will become strong mentally physically and when that time will come if I will ask for the opinion again you Ppls will give negative opinions with negativity about porn in your hearts because you hearts and minds will be clear out of that fog and stupidity your addiction will be over without even you won't notice that's the reality and you can't deny about it....
So I have a proactive plan so why don't we start to see hardtime from now when we have opportunities to get success why don't we create our hardtime situation and start working on it from now? It's a better idea... But wait between your hardtime you will be so busy in your hardwork that you will forget about porn and you will not watch it then when you will get stronger your mindset and opinions will be different but listen if you will continue watching porn you will never become stronger I swear upon it and there is one more obstacle that is Satan he will miss lead you in your journey he will say watch porn for a while retrograde your ejaculation and etc don't listen to him if he will confuse you more then go to the bathroom think about his face and piss on it and your problems will go away.........

 

My wife helped me through the last stretch of the journey; a couple times over, though. I can't say it would be a general recommendation to lean on someone else so much. If you're quitting, you won't be living a lie, and that's the best place to start (i.e., work on / fix the problem).

 

My secret came out in two phases. I was an addict since I was a teenager and kept my porn usage a secret when I got married. My married life was terrible and my wife could not understand why I was so distant, secretive, and unavailable. We saw a therapist together but I hid the truth from everyone. After 5 years of being married I started seeing a therapist by myself and eventually disclosed my secret to my wife. She was relieved because she finally had some answers. But that relief quickly faded away.

My first reboot didn't stick and I got really good at hiding my secret. My wife knew I was using porn again but didn't know the details, but things were slowly deteriorating. After 17 years of marriage my wife gave me an ultimatum. She was going to move out, take our kids with her, and tell everyone the reason why unless I got help. I quit cold turkey that night and have been clean for 14 months.

Over the next month we talked every night about how I was progressing, how I hurt her, I would offer an apology, and answer any questions she had. Some were easy to answer... some were difficult. Some I told her I would not answer because that would involve me reliving the experience and put me at risk. She understood how some questions were dangerous and knowing the answer served no good purpose.

In your case I'm guessing you think your wife is in the dark and doesn't know about your secret? Often our wives usually know something is going on but don't know what it is. Remember that what hurts our wives the most isn't the porn (even though it's bad) but the lying, deceit, and secretive behavior.

You asked how to disclose. Here are some suggestions:
1. Find a time when you are both can be undisturbed.
2. Find a place where she can react without embarrassment.
3. Explain that you have a problem that you need to talk about.
4. Take ownership and responsibility. Tell her none of this is her fault.
5. Offer basic details and what you are doing to address the problem.
6. Tell her why you are disclosing now.
7. If she asks what she can do to help then have something prepared. But don't ask her to be your AP.
8. Answer all questions. Be transparent. Don't lie by omission. But don't overwhelm or be cruel.
9. Explain that it's an addiction and not just a bad habit. It is an explanation but not an excuse or justification.
10. She might be in shock when you tell her. Make time to follow up and answer any more questions.
11. Don't make it all about yourself. Acknowledge that you have hurt and betrayed her but you are determined to make things right. Follow up with her and ask if there is anything more you can do to restore trust.
12. Her feelings on the matter will evolve. She might be ok with it one day and devastated another day.
13. Eventually let her know that there are resources for wives of addicts that she can talk to if she needs it.
14. Follow her lead concerning physical contact. If she needs space then give her space. If she needs comfort then give her comfort.

Disclosing your secret can be one of the scariest things you'll ever do in your life. You have no control over how she will react. The consequences and fallout of disclosing is also out of your control. Accepting the consequences is part of taking responsibility. Write out a script if you need to. Disclosing in a bad way can be traumatic, so be kind and remorseful. But trust in the long run that this is one of the most important things you can do for yourself, your reboot, and your marriage.

 

Your post is amazing. I can see a lot of vulnerability in it. I just had to offer support in how awesome I think you found your words here.

(I apologize if this next bit is off topic, or if it hijacks the thread)
I don't wish you to disclose anything you are uncomfortable with, so please don't if you feel vulnerable, but was your secret entirely just that used PMO, or were there sensitivities in the content you watched?


Perhaps we can take this to a different discussion if needed. (Maybe we need a 'confessions' thread). But I offer this about myself, because I think guilt, shame, and isolation are key components that keeps us trapped in PMO. Knowing that others share 'dirty' secrets, and learning that it's not dirty, it just is, and not to judge ourselves broken is important.

(With that, I offer my confession) I hope that others can see that we don't have to hide in the dark from this, and that our consumption doesn't have to mean that we are actually broken individuals in real life)

(From that, I masturbated from a very early age, and was told that was 'wrong', and I should do that. I had a high libido even as a child, so I did this in many inappropriate places (when I thought I could get away with it, and no one was watching or catch me). So early on, I had shame for masturbation, and a high drive to keep doing it. I was also shy, hyper, and sensitive. These are very off-putting as a child/teen, so I didn't have many friends, and no female friendships at all. I was often made fun of, and fell to tears as a child in elementary school. I developed a fondness for sci-fi erotica. (Introspection has told me that it was my idea of isolation, and that sci-fi erotica was a mechanism where by impossible circumstances allowed for intimacy (even if it was 'wrong'), and that I connected with it, because I doubted my ability/worth to connect with a partner. Later I read a Robert Heinlien book that introduced the idea of an immortal man where genetics were so controlled that there was no biological reason where incest between consenting adults couldn't take place. It was a start of a fetish where I consumed erotica based on consensual brother/sister relationships. (Introspection has taught me that it was because I had 3 sisters, and my earliest friendship with the opposite sex was my siblings). I've never wanted sex with them, nor my mother, nor do I desire any daughter, niece, etc. (Real life experience in having sisters, neices, god-daughters live with me for short periods has taught me that the abstract concept of the connection is sexy to me, but I have no-desire in the real world like that, nor would I/could I ever do that). (Just in case you were concerned and so it's clear, I've never attempted to molest, rape, nor have real incest). Realizing this, I was able to know what I sought in fantasy, didn't define my real world sexual behaviors or desires. Chasing those extremes in porn has taken me all through the spectrum of genres. I've watched out of curiosity before, things I had no arousal. I've watched things that horrified me (but I learned that I was sane in that it horrified me). But I have learned, what visually arouses me, isn't anything like what I want from real partners.

I had admitted all this to my (at the time wife) a few years into my relationship, expecting that she would leave me, and run out the door with my children in horror. She was 'meh, doesn't sound so wild.' She knew I was too gentle a human being, and too decent to ever sexualize something wrongly. She was hurt and threatened by porn and masturbation. She wanted to be all I needed, and wanted the power to 'take me', but the content issues were just some wild ideas that she didn't think was even relevant. (It has actually been eye opening in the last 4 years that my favored genre has become popular. It's because it's so taboo and the illicit nature draws people. They know they aren't going to do that in real life, but the idea that there is a line too far, and some one cross it is sexy to them).

I stand her feeling lighter because of that realization, and it's why I can offer it up to you guys. Don't stand in fear that 'what you watch' is 'what you will do'. The compulsion of PMO is difficult enough, without feeling that your broken and if you stop there will be no way to get your joy in a healthy manner. Again, hopefully by talking this out, it gives others ideas of how to open themselves back up to the world.

 

In my online journal I've been pretty honest with how neglectful I was during my marriage. I have had to take a hard look at my behavior over the years and I had to come to terms with all my failures as a husband. That was the tone for most of our discussions. We had a back log of 17 years worth of unresolved feelings to work our way through. My addiction blinded me to much of the damage I had caused.

WHAT I looked at wasn't a big part of the discussion. WHY I looked at it at all was more of the focus. I think my wife understood that the titillation factor caused me to escalate. My wife was able to divide me into two people - the OLD me and the NEW me. Some wives are unable to make the distinction. Some wives feel the need to know every little detail and think there is safety in knowing everything. They feel that they can't be hurt again if they unearth every little secret. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Here's the point for the OP - Truth is the coin you pay to restore trust. Do not conceal or omit. Do not try to spare your wife's feelings when really you are just avoiding embarrassment or humiliation. Just don't get bogged down in the nitty-gritty details that would only hurt.

 

Thanks. I agree.

 

@i_wanna_get_better1 Sounds like you overall had a good/constructive experience. I'd echo much of what you wrote about how things went down for me as well. Thanks for writing that out, as it helps to remind me and clue others in to how much work and pain we have to go through to really/seriously stop these problem behaviors. As my wife stuck it out with me, my respect and commitment to her grew a lot, watching her help me deal with my issues.

However, I will say it makes sense to acknowledge the real fear that a wife might leave and not put up with things. NoFap is all about not living a lie. However, if someone is asking what the best thing to do is, it's hard not to point out that, yes, an announcement of this problem might cause a breakup.

To validate the "truth is better" approach, I should clarify that the consequence is something that is better to just face, in my opinion. Which is why I definitely took that approach. Sadly, the consequence of breaking trust might not be fixable to someone else's wife, though. But, then, if it *is* fixable, if you have a real partner in this -- a decision that is rightfully left to the other person -- then, that's awesome. In my experience, and from what I've seen time and time again here in the NoFap forums or the subreddit for us 40+ married types, there's still going to be huge work on all sides. My absolute worst dread was bringing up a relapse with my wife. Going through that a few times, putting /her/ through that, might actually been a big motivator in helping me be more permanently cured.

 

Hi I am a partner of a man with PIED (not married) but he is in his mid 40s and I'm 39 so I hope I can help. We do not have kids. My partner did not confess to me I caught him. And we had specifically agreed that nw would not PMO because it was ruining our sex life. I also asked him on a regular basis to his face if he was and he lied. The reason I say this is because if he would have came to me like you are suggesting it would have hurt a lot less. It's the secrecy and betrayal that kills us more. We start to question everything. But if you show us you have the strength to tell us rather than us catching you that makes a huge difference in healing I think. Do you have ED? The reason I ask is that even if some women don't say it, when they have dealt with a man that has ED for a long time they build up anger and resentment. It starts as hurt and rejection but becomes anger. If this has been happening and you tell her you have been PMOing she's going to be more angry. But if you have a fulfilling sex life she may not be as mad. Finally, have you discussed porn use before? If she told you she hated it but you still did it then she's going to be angrier but if it was never discussed she may not be as angry. I lost my moms when I caught my partner, but he did not tell me. I am a very calm person too. I had had a year of horrible sex and been betrayed. If he had fessed up on his own I would have been a lot less angry and more inclined to forgive. Betrayal is the worse part, worse than the PMO. Good luck.

 

As a partner of a man with PIED I agree. Fessing up and taking whatever your partner has to say is better than living a lie. You can never have true intimacy if you have secrets. The keeping of the secret likely spills over into other parts of your relationship. Personally I cannot imagine the stress it would cause if I had to carry that lie. And I'm a lawyer so geesh I can lie if needed. I told my partner early on that I would rather hear the truth even if I would get mad. That mad would pass in a few days but the kind of mad that comes from lying lasts years. This was like on date 3. If you relapse a few times okay. But if it's Over and over again you need to expect she will eventually leave. But love and respect means you still owe her that truth and the ability to decide on her own what to do.

 

Yes, this happened to me too. I suspected other women and asked about that. He denied. Turned out he was seeing prostitutes. I don't know if I can get over this horrid pain. @whyte

That's exactly right. FANOS helps with intimacy.

It sure did. We went to marital counseling and he never said what was going on. All those years, I thought it was his job stress which kept him distant. He was having relationships with pixelated women, whores (gave me graphic details of their bodies), and I don't know if that is all. I was denied of intimacy and sex (and the TRUTH) for so long (married 23 years).

***Some counselors advise handling this in the safety of an office with a therapist guiding the disclosure. The man preps for the disclosure in advance with the therapist.

I wish disclosure would have happened in a safe way. His disclosure caused even more harm to me. I have PTSD now.

 

Wow I am so sorry 23 years! THe more I read the more I know I cannot marry this man. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than have this type of relationship. If my partner took me to a counselor to tell me I would friggin lose my mind. To me that does not show that he's trying it shows that he is a coward because he thinks that if he does that I won't get as mad because there is a stranger there. Wrong, I will get even more angry!

 

It gives me hope that guys can wake up. I hope my hub can wake up and take ownership for how much this has harmed mer both personally and how it harmed our long-term marriage. I wish he realized and appreciated the risks I took a year ago and the risks I continue to take. If I just *knew* that he was really working on trying to heal our relationship, and that he had empathy for my pain, it would be a *start*. We talked about this a little while ago, so I hope that conversation helped. @whyte

@vxlccm - you are fortunate to have a wife who stuck it out. Both people are struggling tremendously - the addict AND the wife/SO. It's wonderful she has supported you while you've dealt with your issues. Curious how you have supported her in her pain? My hub & I are looking at resources, and it helps to read what other couples have done.

Of course, each person has boundaries regarding what they need, what will or won't help them, etc., and I certainly respect that.

Just to clarify, the reason why some disclosures happen in a counselor's office is actually to protect the partner, as the disclosure is planned. I can tell you from personal experience that my hub's disclosure was horridly emotionally un-safe and I am still dealing with that. He was having some major psych issues at the time which compounded the lack of safety. His disclosure was done in a way which was very damaging to me. I personally wish he would have planned a disclosure with a therapist, b/c it would mean that he cared about my feelings and our relationship. He is *just* waking up to the sex addiction, even though he's been clean for about a year. Our story is different than most as it was complicated by many other factors.

 

Ahh I see then in your case that disclosure in a counselor's office could be very beneficial to you. I did not get a disclosure of the initial addiction I caught him and it was a forced disclosure. I guess for me if the only way he could get it out was with a counselor I may understand. But I think many men do it to try to not deal with the partners true reaction. I am a very calm even keeled person and my partner had never seen me get as angry as I did when I caught him. I'm not sure I have ever in 39 years been than angry.

 

Yes - extreme anger (and many other very extreme emotions - rage, despair, etc.) can come up at the point of discovery, whether planned or unplanned.

It's so horrific for the spouse/SO.

I'm sorry for your pain. There are many partners of sex addicts on this site who "get it."

 

#1 thing I "did" was to be available. As in: for her to vent. And, you know what? I hadn't been a good listener in general, probably still am not. But, as I learned to listen on that one thing, out of survival necessity, then it became something that I got better at. Part of this is just time, part of it is making time. I mean, make sure time is available, and leave the TV off, or have kids go to bed so that you have time.

#2 was to apologize. Not really just like one time. More like: to remain apologetic. My wife isn't big on gloating. Some husbands might have a different experience with this where the wife wants them to grovel for an eon or two. That's not appropriate. But, giving her time to work though feelings and to communicate the level of betrayal, etc. was a big deal.

#3 was probably to not be demanding of her. Not for intimacy and not for a schedule of when I was going to be out of the doghouse. Because, some days it was like everything was healed and the next day not as much. Things were basically back to normal after 6 months, with only occasional questions from her about my online habits lately for another year or more. Now, rarely do we even talk about things because I don't have a problem anymore. If I see something online, or on a billboard or grocery store magazine or another woman on on the sidewalk, I'm just in the habit of sharing that information and telling my wife what I really want is her.

- - -

This was NOT a one way street, though. I wouldn't have been able to do #1 or #2 or other things without her continued support. The #1 thing my wife did for me was to not withhold affection. That didn't necessarily mean sex! I mean things just like regular hugs and support during the day. She needed me, too, and it would only have hurt her or made life harder on her if we were to have essentially started a de facto trial separation by ignoring one another. Physical affection was a big part of /our/ recovery. And, that all let her know that none of this was ever her fault, that I had developed a separate problem and it wasn't due to a deficiency in performance or looks or anything else to do with her or how she looks and so forth. If there is a #2 on what my wife did to help it was to not make threats. She never threatened to leave. My theory is it's not healthy to a living, breathing relationship to threaten to kill it, and then expect it to live better.

 

That's a very good point, @vxlccm

This is huge.

This is important. Unfortunately, I received excuses, and imbedded in them was blame. It makes it so much harder on the spouse. I just wish someone could help my husband wake up.

I know in his heart he loves me and wants to be with me, but he has such difficulty taking ownership of what he did to crash our relationship. Of course both people contribute to the success or demise of any relationship --- but prostitutes and secret cell phones? When all along all I ever told him was that I wanted him (even if all he could give me was 2 minutes of hugging) b/c of his crazy work schedule. There was WAY more going on that porn, masturbation and his demanding career. We all know just how badly porn can affect a relationship and we have this added "elephant in the room."

Frankly, I think there are some serious unresolved family-of-origin issues which played into all of this, yet, he didn't see prostitutes (that I know of) for our entire marriage --- he did this the past 8(ish?) years.

Personally, I am struggling with his choice to take such high risks (to both of us) with paid sex workers and his lack of being able to express remorse. I certainly don't want "eons" of groveling at all --- what would that accomplish? Our goal is to heal the marriage. But taking ownership for his choices, IMHO, is part of the 1st step to healing (for me).

 

This is great. This is the perfect "what to do list" for the PA to apply to his relationship. My SO is doing these three things fairly well for the most part. I have noticed only when these practices are being consistently used by him, do I feel safe and like I am slowly processing and hopefully healing. The only thing I don't agree with is the "threat to leave" part. I hear where you are coming from, but in my case I felt it was very helpful to make it crystal clear to my SO that P had become a deal breaker. I let him know I would always be in his corner and that we would always be "family" but that if he chose to continue his porn use, our relationship as a couple was over. That's just me. I felt that his addiction had, as a consequence, put me lower on his priority list than porn and masturbation. I will not ever allow myself to be devalued in that way again.