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Grit & Grace; Thoughts from a wife

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by 0111zerozero11, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    em·pa·thy
    ˈempəTHē/
    noun
    1. the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
    My husband (the PA) probably gets knots in his stomach when I mention this word. I need it; it's lacking (along with other things). Some quick background:

    -together almost 10 years, married 7, 2 children

    -he's been addicted to PMO for 15 years (it went on long before me, during our engagement, and the entirety of our marriage)

    -dday was almost 3 months ago (after multiple requests to stop the PMO during our entire relationship). He was given choices and he chose to work on recovery and commit to our marriage.

    -boundaries were set; he began educating himself online via youtube videos, forums, & articles; he has weekly meetings with a CSAT 1x a week (next week will be week 4). I've sat in on 1 of the meetings with his therapist & really feel that they will be beneficial to his and our healing. I, too, have discussed my husbands PA with my own counselor, whom I've been seeing for years. They have referred me to a colleague that deals with this kind of matter, and my first appointment is this week.

    -full disclosure has revealed his PA did not go further than the screen. There were no physical/emotional/webcam/etc affairs.

    -my husband has been free of PM for over 50 days. Up until 5 days ago, we were sexually active. His therapist recommended we try going 30 days with no sexual behavior between us. I was pretty reluctant to this idea, as my husband & I were having some of the best sex we've ever had. However, I was beginning to notice his old behaviors would creep back in a day or two after we'd been intimate. By behaviors, I mean the not communicating, short tempered, objectifying me, etc. Because of this, I agreed, hard mode it is. He (we) are now 5 days no O. I will continue to write more as the days count down to 30. You find so many POVs from the PA, and not enough from the wife during a hard mode reboot.

    My husband's therapist recommended a book/workbook on betrayal and healing for me to begin reading while she works with my husband one-on-one for now. The books came over a week ago and have been collecting dust on my table. I finally picked them up last Thursday. I was desperate. My husband & I had been having fight after fight over: EMPATHY, & his lack thereof. I got my pen, paper, and books on healing. I spent the last couple of days learning, thinking, and reflecting. Last night, my brain wouldn't shut off. I kept thinking "how will I ever get my husband to treat me like I deserve to be treated?" He just didn't get it; he was trying, but failing, and that was frustrating me. Suddenly, a lightbulb went off. I realized, I, as the betrayed spouse, needed to start practicing what I preached. Let me explain....

    The preface in one of my betrayal trauma & healing books, recommends the SO of the PA educate themselves on the PA's addiction/disease (in fact, there is an entire chapter on "the nature of sex addiction"). So, I educated myself. I can confirm, what they say is in deed true. It boils down to science. *Something* person/place/event caused our PA's to seek women/P/whatever else, as their drug of choice. Their drug took away pain, it cured boredom, & made stressful days more tolerable. When you can begin to see it as a real addiction, it becomes clearer, that he wasn't PMOing BECAUSE of me, he was doing it because that was his pacifier. It soothed him. I could soothe him too, but his brain didn't even think of that scenario. Because he's an addict and addicts brains look like hot messes. He didn't love me any less. He just didn't know any different. Now that I am armed with a little bit of knowledge, I can move forward trusting him when he tells me he absolutely loves me & wasn't doing PMO because of me. I believe him.

    The way his brain is wired isn't the only thing I learned when I took off the foggy glasses. I learned, most importantly, my husband is human, too. He has feelings, thoughts, fears, emotions, etc. When dday happened, I was devastated. I wanted to be better, right then. I read & read. 80% of what I read validated everything I was feeling: anger, rage, grief, hope, etc. & encouraged getting those feeling out in a healthy manner. Great! So, why was my husband still not getting the depth of his errors? Sometimes I'd lay in bed sobbing wondering why he wasn't consoling me; other times, I would scream and call him horrible names & he'd yell back. Granted, I had/have every right to express my highs & lows in this journey, but it wasn't being done in a productive manner by either of us. Again, another light bulb went off: how is my husband supposed to know how to empathize and repair our marriage if I'm not setting a good example??

    I need to show my husband what it is like to be empathetic. Practice what I preach. It certainly does not negate my feelings nor does it negate the situation we're in. This is still going to be a very hard battle. I know he's doing the best he can do, right now. I can't nor do I want to micromanage his recovery. He should not fear outings because there might be women. I should not either, but it is up to me to learn how to heal & deal with these situations. I do not ever want to police my husband. I don't want to nag him every day. I don't want to make him feel shame. I want him to be able to be honest with me. I want him to feel safe to tell me his fears/thoughts/triggers without me requiring hourly check-ins. I want to be able to trust him based off of active recovery and observing behaviors. How can I expect him to be this super hero? He does his own recovery, helps me heal, raises children, holds a job, household duties, and just life in general...I will not add to the already craziness by making him continuously feel like he's not trying. It takes time. Patience. Grit & Grace.
     
  2. This is fantastic. As a husband going through a 90 day hard mode reboot myself (on day 44 at the moment), and having read a good bit of the raw rage on these forums, and walking with my own wife in the midst of all this, I just gotta say he’s lucky to have you. I’m lucky to have my own wife as well. But I just feel like, with this wise and generous heart of yours, your husband would have to be a pretty darn awful man for you two to not find the healing you are looking for. I’m rooting for you.
     
  3. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Thank you for the kind words & encouragement! Trust me, my actions after dday haven't always been so kind...I have & probably will continue to go through sudden waves of intense grief/anger/hurt, & that's ok. What I wasn't understanding, was that although my husband caused me this pain, he alone could not fix it. It was not fair to expect him too. He can HELP fix my pain, through showing consistency in his & our recovery, but only I can truly heal myself.

    I feel a lot of SO's have huge expectations of their PA's (myself included until recently). It takes a lot to step back & have empathy for the PA. A LOT. When I gave him the opportunity to stay & prove he could recover & become the man I deserved, I held this certain "power". I was in charge now. I took this "power" for granted. I thought for him to know how much he hurt me, he needed to feel the same way. I berated him, nagged him, shamed him, & essentially became his mother (always bossing him, correcting him, speaking down to him). I always felt horrible after these exchanges between us, but, convinced myself I could do/say whatever I wanted, because I had the "power" now. How wrong was I!? I was so incredibly hurt, it didn't even register that he was human, too. Once I figured that out, things have GREATLY improved.

    I must admit, I am seeing so many SOs on here, much farther along than I, that are still in miserable marriages, & it scares me. I read stories & I can truly empathize with the PA spouse. I have younger kids that have this super power. Telepathically, they set up times throughout the day in which they both need something right then or a meltdown will happen. I'll be happily going about my day & then BAM! "Mooooooom, I need this thing right now. I don't exactly what I need, but unless you find it, I'm going to pout, scream, & cry alllll dayyyyyyy. I'm going to make you pay". That's not exactly verbatim lol, but, I think you get the point. I imagine a PA actively in recovery that is living with a SO who's not healing *properly* (self-care, counseling, support groups, etc), feels much like I do with little kids. Like you're always being hollered at, told you're the worst person ever, like you can't do anything right. It's a horrible feeling, I know first hand. I don't care who you are or what you've done, nobody deserves to feel like a failure. A little empathy goes a long way from BOTH parties wanting to save their marriage.

    I'm going to hop on over to your page & seek tips for surviving this hard mode. Day 6 & the willpower on both our parts is becoming harder to find. Thank God for children who make it impossible to act during weaknesses...I can't even go to the bathroom without one of them trailing me lol
     
  4. Reverent

    Reverent Fapstronaut

    My wife's counselor says "dealing with a PA is a lot like dealing with an immature kid, isn't it?" She maintanes that often PA's emotional maturity is frozen at the age they became addicted. That's why so many of us men behave like lying whiny selfish little 11yr olds who act up when we don't get our way sexually. We lack empathy and do not know how to healthily cope with our emotions, stresses, boredoms etc. Until we do the hard work and relearn healthy responses we will remain in the PMO shame cycle.

    I really enjoy your posts here, I relate to so much to what you are experiencing. You are a valuable member of this community I appreciate your perspectives.

    I am also so sorry you even have to be a truamatized SO, it definitely isn't anything you deserved. I hope your relationship continues to heal, and you find peace and healing in your own life.

    There is Hope in Healing!
     
  5. Well, I'm always delighted to have people give me advice and feedback on my journey. However, I'm not sure our situation would be too much help to you, as our sexual relationship hasn't been the best. I'm hoping this time apart will give my wife a chance to heal some, and not feel like sex is a duty or chore so much, or something she has to do to keep me from being in a bad mood. It'd be really great to be able to "start over" fresh. But who knows what the results will be. I'm terrified of nothing changing between us after all this time. I feel like I'll be in a much better place to give advice once I know what the result of this 90 day fast will be. ;-)

    I will say though, that for me on an individual level, the abstinence period seems vital. This way I really have to face my own demons, take responsibility, and not use her as a substitute for my addiction. That part is really really good. I just hope that during this time she can also start to heal and get to a place where she's excited about sexual intimacy for herself too.
     
    hope4healing and Deleted Account like this.
  6. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Yes! I think I had a hard time realizing my husband was emotionally stunted. I knew he didn't give me what I needed emotionally, but, I also knew he was more than capable. I would try to rationalize with myself 'He has his master's degree, which automatically means he is not capable of being "stunted"! Emotionally stunted people couldn't be normal around other people, right? But, he brought me flowers, so, I know he loves me & is DEFINITELY not stunted'. Ahhhhh, if only I knew then what I know now. Might've saved me from raising 3 kids instead of 2! I kid, I kid ;)
    After reading your posts, the feeling is mutual...i think we have a lot to learn from one another & others. Also, I noticed you're an artist? What kind of art do you enjoy? Art is my therapy (& hopefully lucrative business some day!)

    Thank you for you kind feedback & I look forward to learning from you & others
     
  7. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    I was soooo against hard mode. I had my power point ready for full rebuttal, UNTIL I noticed that pattern. Sex + O would lead to extreme disconnect & behaviors reminesant of pre-dday. I realized my worth & that obviously my husband couldn't distinguish between sex & intimacy. It was time he learned & the only way that can happen is hard mode. Which, by the way, is stupid hard, even for a SO. We can't even sleep in the same bed tonight. Praying for all of us enduring the pain for that prize at the end; a healthy, happy, & loving marriage
     
  8. NF4L

    NF4L Fapstronaut

    Wow! I just have to say you are one amazing woman. The amount of introspection you have been able to muster and display is truly inspiring to anyone in recovery, regardless of PA or betrayal trauma. I know you will do well throughout this ordeal, and hope your SO can listen to you for a moment or two and begin to make the progress you deserve.
    I wish you luck on hard mode. I can hopefully offer some advice, even though I never went that far with my wife. There was something special during the early reboot about physical contact. I was so worried and fearful that intimacy would lead to sex, and whether that was a result of using my own wife as a psub. Regardless, that withdrawals, the worthlessness of being a PA, and the shame it brought me was easily melted away by the touch of my wife. We concentrated on intimate touching through naked cuddling, massage and making out. I want to say this went on for a couple of weeks before we engaged in sex again. Although it didn’t really have to. There was much comfort and solace in holding each other, and having vulnerable conversations. Sometimes it was me holding her, likewise it was her holding me. It felt good, it felt right, and more importantly more soothing than the PMO could ever be. It was a sign we were on the right path. It was honestly electrifying. It also stuck with me throughout the day, and made me feel we more connected, and important than I imagined we were. I challenge you to find this place and healing with your own SO, and hope you find it without engaging in sex. I am not so strong.
    As for empathy, and your need for it, I wish I could help. I am not certain this can be a learned behavior. One has to be open in order to receive and understand. A PA short circuits themselves from feeling or understanding through PMO just to feel good. I have had a habit that whenever my wife had a problem, I would fix it. The reality is there are many things I can’t just fix. I would get frustrated that I couldn’t change them, that I was powerless to do so, and didn’t know what to do. I would lack empathy in These situations, and avoid them. I would fail to realize that I didn’t need to “fix” anything, and really just had to empathize, to console, to understand. It’s possible your SO struggles with this too. They think they are supposed to fix something, but can’t at the moment or at all. They don’t understand that you just need some understanding. It seems so simple, but honestly we’re so dense we can’t quite comprehend those things in the moment. We need that reassurance that we are powerless against it and cannot act in a traditional sense, and just need to take the time to identify and even sympathize with it.
     
  9. The cool thing about it though, especially with the fact that it’s really tough for you as well, is that you can really look forward to the reward at the end. Sort of like a genuine second honeymoon. We have a night away planned, and I’m as excited for it as I was for our wedding night (we abstained ‘til marriage when we dated). So it kind of resurrects all the wonder and desire of courtship, the magic of a kiss or the touch of a hand, etc - it’s pretty neat.
     
  10. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

    ― Dr. Seuss

    It happened. I've been waiting 3 long months for today. Some of you might have already had a day like today; the BACK TO SCHOOL DAY!!! Talk about feeling crazy! You have been counting down the days until they are in somebody else's care, for like, longer than 2 hours, and you can't wait to get home and relish in the silence. Except, you saw their lip quiver as you were leaving. You made the mistake of locking eyes with your helpless baby, while silently screaming "run" in your head. The thoughts of how much I couldn't wait to be free of tantrums, boredom, and fights were overtaken by what a failure I was as a mother to just leave my child all helpless like that. I had a choice; stay and give in to his insecurities OR assure him I would be back, give him a kiss, and run like I've never run before. Whatever choice I made, I had to stick with it. I ran so fast I'm pretty sure you'll see me at the next Olympics, if you're wondering what choice I made.

    I had talked to my husband a couple of weeks ago how school drop offs were excruciating last year because of his oogling of other women. I won't lie and say it didn't make my stomach get some butterflies as we were pulling into the parking lot, but, the butterflies left shortly after. On the walk up to the school doors, I noticed a cute mom & her daughter. My husband (& he would probably deny this), would look at her for less than a second, look away; look at her for less than a second, look away. This happened maybe 3 times. The me prior to last week, would have let this ruin my day. I would have been short with him, make him guess why I was angry, and probably withheld affection. I would have most certainly punished him in one way or another. Not today, devil, not today. Today, I made a mental note & locked it in my own limbic system; the part of the brain that stores memory (if you've educated yourself about PA, the limbic system should sound familiar). This is where I store all of the information I've *silently* observed in his recovery. It's where I store the kind of info that if I were to verbally approach him about these kinds of observations, they would either lead to 1)his denial; which would lead to me questioning my own sanity (again); which would lead to a tit for tat, OR 2)his admission, in which case I would be put (put myself?) in the position to reprimand/scold/lecture/demean/etc while questioning his authenticity of recovery; which would lead to me hating life for having to be some kind of spousal police due to his betrayal. Neither one of these scenarios sound like a productive way to heal myself & save the marriage I signed up for to save. This is where POWER comes in to play.

    The chapter I'm reading this week in my betrayal & healing book, revolves around power. It suggests partners of PA's either 1)believe they don't have power or 2)believe they have power that they really don't. I displayed the second; thinking I had power that I really didn't have. For more days than not during my healing and our recovery in marriage, I mistakenly thought my husbands disclosure granted me the ability to have power over him and his recovery. When my newfound power wasn't magically making my husband be what I needed him to be, I had to rethink my approach (because Lord knows he was failing at his). It was then, that I realized, we both had powers; I mean, we all have free will, right? We could use our power over this addiction positively or negatively. It wasn't until I got to this chapter in my book that I realized the positive power and negative powers we display have names:

    POWER OVER:
    The power over some other person. It is usually only found in relationships where an agreed upon hierarchy exists (employee and owner of company relationship). A person who powers over somebody else, thinks they have power or control over somebody without the other persons consent. This type of power is shown by using negative control over the PA, manipulation, coercion, intimidation, or force.
    **This was totally me 7 days ago

    AUTHENTIC POWER:
    The power over yourself. The only thing that will TRULY make you, the betrayed spouse, feel any type of worth, is when you realize that the only thing that has power over you, is you. Once you realize this, you can understand that you are the only person in control of your choices/power as is your PA spouse & his choices/powers.

    I can't quite put my finger on my ah ha! moment; the one where I went from having power over my PA, to having authentic power with myself. I've spent a lot of time thinking what made it click. I honestly don't know; I just knew I was not put on this Earth to be having pity party's everyday over my husband's PA. I decided to get in touch with my needs and wants. If I could identify those without waivering, hopefully my husband could learn how to satisfy those in a healthy way. I learned to make requests rather than issue demands. I'm choosing the power of self-love. My husband fell in love with me because I was a confident, independent, intelligent, caring, vivacious woman. Those are the same qualities I love most about myself, and by God, I'm getting them back! By having and practicing Authentic Power.

    Thanks to everyone for the truly insightful comments. I'm always sending my best wishes to all of you; take care of YOU first.

    Afterthought: 7 days as an unwilling/willing participant in husbands therapist recommended hard mode. You PAs that make it this long, well done, well done....I don't have the addiction, but I'm finding it so incredibly hard not to think about my husband in "that" way. I do know, that my change in attitude has led to his change in behavior, all of it being positive. This has led to some major vulnerable opportunities on both of our parts to openly communicate about the tough things, and being able to do so in a loving a civilized manner. Don't tell my husband, but I think this hard mode thing might be working....le sigh. 23 more days
     
  11. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    I'm not sure I understand if your husband actually ogled that other mom today, or if that was a hypothetical situation that could have happened last year?
     
  12. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    It wasn't hypothetical...it was 2 days ago; reality. He'd take a quick glance then look away. He was trying to get around the 3 second "oogling" rule. Smart, eh? I'm smarter. I choose to lock these kinds of situations in my "noted behaviors" box (my brain). This box will come out in 9 months (1 yr post d-day). They say to give it 1 year before any major decisions. Things like this will form my major decision at the end of 1 year. He knows this; just like he knows he can't fool me anymore. I'd rather spend my energy healing instead of policing him & him feeling forced into admitting something. Idk; it's at least keeping me sane doing it this way
     
  13. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

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    I see. That's great that you've found a method that works for you and helps your healing!
     
  14. NF4L

    NF4L Fapstronaut

    0111zerozero11 likes this.
  15. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Ahhhhh! You're the best! We've got a hot date set up tomorrow night to watch! I'll journal my take-aways after.

    For whatever reason, you sent this at the time we need it the most. We are 12 days into his hard mode (over 60 no PM) & life is ROUGH! Him (& I?) are flatlining; questioning hard mode & abstinence in our marriage, depression, feelings of growing farther apart.

    I'm certain this video will help be one of the many guides to help us get out of this "funk". Thank you!! :emoji_clap:
     
  16. You're almost halfway there! Keep at it.

    Don't know how much of my thread you read, but we had a super big fight the other day, that seemed relevant to what you're going through somehow (the anger and frustration of no longer having something you're using as a crutch, and the strength that comes from moving forward). There were insights that followed, and I feel like I learned a lot, and it really changed my attitude. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that post:

    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...aining-for-90-days.185083/page-2#post-1656032
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2018
    0111zerozero11 likes this.
  17. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Kids starting school this week has me all over the place! I got pretty deep into your thread & have added a lot of your insight/advice into my therapeutic, old school, actual pencil & paper journal lol...

    I haven't read your latest, but will absolutely find time to do so...thank you for reaching out. The support is welcomed during this dip in the mountain. We'll make our way to the top eventually ....I hear the journey to the top is a little bumpy, but, if you stick it out its worth every pothole. I know my faith is solid in my marriage. That & great support/advice/encouragement from like-minded people are what gets me to the next day.
     
  18. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    free spir·it
    frē ˈspirit/
    noun
    1. an independent or uninhibited person.
    I feel like being a free spirit is becoming my nemesis in my husbands PA recovery. I like to do things on my own terms; I always speak my mind *biting my tongue lately*; If I don't want to do something, I won't (which is why I am feeling a bit bullied in my husbands recovery; I feel forced into his monk mode..rather, I was led astray. I had no clue when I agreed to abstinence that it meant we could do absolutely nothing. Literally, no physical touch. I was told no O for 30 days. Lying by omission?); I pride myself on my independence and ability to have an open mind.
    Being a free spirit is rough as a SO. I am living with a person who has, & sometimes continues to define me, and try to put a stop to my very being as a person.
    My husband has a way of making feel like I can't think, feel, act on my own. Recovery has intensified this push/pull relationship. I thrive on my ability to think for myself; lack of communication from him and his counselor is robbing me of an opportunity to have anything to think about at all. I feel restricted. I work on me. That's it. I do what I'm told, or else, my husbands recovery will be jeopardized...at least, that's how I feel. I can't even function with the restriction I feel right now.

    I work on MY time. I work best when I'm by myself. Unsolicited advice drives me mad. Ideally, I would sit in a room filled with books, by myself, for days. In that room, I would soak up knowledge about anything and everything & try to make sense of the madness in my life right now. Find the purpose of life.

    I'm all over the place. Highs turn to lows turn to numbing out things. I'm sure it's hard for my husband to keep up with me. Because my brain is always going, I need him to always be on alert, to add to my enrichment of life. I want to share meaningful conversations with him; about life, love, loss....

    most of all, I just want him to feel as free as I do. experience life with no hesitations, with me. it's lonely on this island.
     
  19. McStoa

    McStoa Fapstronaut

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    could it be you feel free as you do just because you are with somebody who isn't as free?
    in other words, is your free feeling dependent of him?
     
  20. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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    You're a good wife. I know that just by reading this post. He has to know that without a doubt. I really appreciate your transparency.
     

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