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Gods original design for relationships

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

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    There are...every single one of your verses has a context around them. A context that brings its meaning to light! Else, one might become like the pharisees who tripped on the precepts without understanding the principles behind them. He who has ears, let him hear!
    First - Ecclesiastes is an awesome book! Written by Solomon, the book never really mentions God directly. Instead, Solomon uses the fallen-ness of the world to show the redemption and power of God. Everything is meaningless under the sun? Well, what is above (greater than) the sun? Ecclesiastes looks really depressing, but is actually one of the most hopeful books in the Bible!

    Your selected verse seems really damning at first, but lets look a little broader at where it comes from.

    23 All this I tested by wisdom and I said,

    “I am determined to be wise”—
    but this was beyond me.
    24 Whatever exists is far off and most profound—
    who can discover it?
    25 So I turned my mind to understand,
    to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things
    and to understand the stupidity of wickedness
    and the madness of folly.

    26 I find more bitter than death
    the woman who is a snare,
    whose heart is a trap
    and whose hands are chains.
    The man who pleases God will escape her,
    but the sinner she will ensnare.

    27 “Look,” says the Teacher, “this is what I have discovered:

    “Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things—
    28 while I was still searching
    but not finding—
    I found one upright man among a thousand,
    but not one upright woman among them all.
    29 This only have I found:
    God created mankind upright,
    but they have gone in search of many schemes.”

    Solomon expresses his wish to be wise, and says one thing he's learned. That a woman who is a snare - and he is not saying all women are snares, only that woman who are ungodly are snares - is worse than death (as she presents the way away from God and to the second death). He then says he looked at the people around him and only found one righteous man. Who were the people around him? Well, Solomon kept a rather large harem and seems to be reflecting on the condition of life in a polygamous culture. Solomon then reflects on how humanity was created upright, but has fallen and turned away. The comparison here is the fallen-ness of mankind, and the holiness or purity of God, with the message that mankind cannot find it's own path to redemption (we cannot be upright), it can only come from God.

    This statement should definitely be tempered with Solomon's other words on women, like "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the Lord." (Pr 18:22). "Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the Lord." (Pr 19:14) and "A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies." (Pr 31:10).

    There is a warning that can be drawn from these words, too: if a wife is a gift from God, and you treat her poorly, how well will it go for you when the sheep are separated from the goats (Mt 25:31-40) or when the Master returns (Mt 25:14–30)?

    How does this math apply to God, then? Do not the Father, Spirit, and Son complete each other? Are they therefore unequal?
    1 and 1 complete 2. 1 and 1 are both equal.
    Fun note! This is from a passage which could be seen as the reason why monks had that funny haircut, as you should have a text note that gives you the alternate reading! 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with long hair dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with no covering of hair dishonors her head—she is just like one of the “shorn women.” 6 If a woman has no covering, let her be for now with short hair; but since it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair shorn or shaved, she should grow it again. 7 A man ought not to have long hair since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.

    But enough of an aside! Paul is making a reference to a political reality of his timeperiod. Women were property, and only had social status (glory) through men. This does not make it God's ideal, nor the way in which we should live. Paul - and even Jesus - reference slaves, because they were a reality of the time. We know slavery is not right, and justifying it with Bible verses leads down a twisted path with some people being only 3/4 of a man? How does that even work?! But we now know slavery is not right. In the same way, when Pharisees came to Jesus and asked him about divorce, Jesus said “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Jesus acknowledges that Moses gave them the Law in a specific context - one in which their hearts were hard - but that it was not God's design for the world.

    I submit to you that your understanding of women being less than men is the same. God speaks in scripture to the people of that time with language they would understand, because he knew people - he knew that your heart was hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
    Up until the Christians started their thing, only the men were allowed to study Torah, learn to read, and go to school at the synagogue. Paul is saying, "don't let someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about try to teach you about the Law and Jesus." Once women were given the opportunity to read and study the Law, the Prophets, and Jesus' teachings for themselves, entire households were brought into relationship with God and cities were blessed through women! Lydia did it! And Paul mentions several others!
    If you are reading this passage and understand it as literal heads, please read deeper.
    Try it again with the understanding that the head is the part that has dominion or authority over the rest of the body. So, in less poetic language, it would read: "But I would have you know, that the one who has dominion of every man is Christ; and the one who has authority of the woman is the man; and the one who has dominion of Christ is God." Still, at first blush, this seems to say that men control women, and that's because it does! In Ancient Judea a woman was the legal property of the man in her life - as it was in Rome and Egypt and all the Ancient world. Paul is saying something that is dating him to his time. God is speaking with words that people then would understand. "But it was not this way from the beginning."

    Look back to how God made Adam and Eve in the Garden. This post describes it in better terms than I could ever say, but pay attention to the words 'ezer and kenegdow:

    In Genesis 2:18, we read of the one thing that was not declared “good” in all of God’s creation: “Then the LORD God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone.’” The same verse includes God’s solution: “I will make him a helper fit for him.” Eve was the solution to Adam’s deficiency.

    Two Hebrew terms in this verse provide important information to better understand the creation of Eve as the first woman. The word translated “helper” is the Hebrew term ‘ezer. This word is even used of God, sometimes, noting that He is our Helper (Psalm 115:9-11). We would certainly not view God, as a Helper, as subservient to humans, nor should we understand the role of “helper” in Genesis 2:18 as a position of subservience. The concept of an “ideal partner” seems to convey the thought best.

    The second important Hebrew word in this verse, translated “fit” is kenegdow. It literally means “according to the opposite of him.” In other words, the focus is on an appropriate match. Eve was not created above or below Adam; she was complementary. The animals Adam had named each had an appropriate companion (Genesis 2:20), and Adam was given a fitting companion as well. Eve was “just right” for him.

    Further, God’s statement that it was not good for man to be alone implies that Adam was lonely and incomplete by himself. He had been created for relationship, and it is impossible to have relationship alone. With the creation of Eve, Adam experienced the joy of love for another person.

    The Bible is unique in its depiction of women’s valued status as a complementary companion. No other ancient text from the Middle East offers commentary on the creation of women. It is in the Bible that we learn of the important role women have had since the beginning of human existence. Both man and woman were made in God’s image, according to Genesis 1:27, “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

    The apostle Paul refers to Genesis when he says, “A man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh” (Ephesians 5:31). Husband and wife are to live as one, united in love for God and for one another, modeling the love Christ has for His bride, the Church. (From https://www.gotquestions.org/woman-helper-suitable.html)
    I really hope you find digging into some of these verses and their contexts to be helpful! I really enjoyed looking up this information and researching the responses!
     
  2. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

    You're being silly. 2 + 3 = 5. 2 =/= 3.
    The Father is NOT the Holy Spirit who is NOT the Son and vice versa. Yes, they are one, but are NOT the same. When Jesus got baptized by John, the Son was on Earth while the Spirit in the air and the Father in Heavens, it's the BODY of Christ that bled for our eternal justification and we Christians are part of this resurrected body, not the soul of God who is the Father nor the Spirit who is the Holy Spirit though we received it in our souls, aren't we equal to God the Father (soul of God) yet? No because the day of redemption (rapture of the Church) hasn't taken place yet and even then in Heavens we would have to wait a 1000 years of reign with Christ to be part of it as God all and in all.

    And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. -1 Corinthians 15:28

    Therefore man and woman (Christ, head of the Church) are not equal, otherwise Christians could proclaimed themselves as God instead of redeemed by Him, because the Church would equal Christ instead of HIS BRIDE that He cleansed and sanctifies.

    The Bible means what it says and says what it means.

    We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. -2 Peter 1:19-20

    In the end it's between you and God.

    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. -1 Timothy 4:1-3

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. -Colossians 2:8-9

    You seem to operate by an argumentative spirit instead of the simplicity of the pure Word, and I find it very unbiblical and I hate it just like I hate lies. You talk about how context is important, and that doesn't give you the right to invent one that is not found in the Bible.

    I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it. He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life. And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God. I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. -Ecclesiastes 3:10-15

    God bless you.

    Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged. Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons. -Colossians 3:18-25

    If you want your wife to be equal to you as her husband, then go enjoy your marriage and household as you can and tell me how it works for a certain period of time.

    A false balance is abomination to the Lord: but a just weight is his delight. When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom. The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them. -Proverbs 11:1-3
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  3. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

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    You seem to really want to cling to this belief that men are better than women. So long as you do, porn will dog you at every turn. If you want to be rid of it, you will need to change how you see the world. "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
     
  4. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

    I just exposed you the truth on the matter with the irrefutable simple word of God.

    I don't really care what you think of me, especially since you're showing evident denial of what the Truth is. Sometimes I just have a hard time standing people who try making God a liar, maybe to reassure their pricked conscience, instead of surrendering to Him.

    Stop messing around. When it comes to marriage, it's a woman and a man's lives which are at stake, and the life of their potential children as well. This is serious.

    Let the husbands be husbands, and let their wives be wives.
    God bless you. Bye.

     
  5. Its like my wife tells me.."I'll do as you say..later" So I think that the give and take.
     

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