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Gender vs genitalia

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Hand Jive, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. There never will be any other option or type of help for them though, unless it’s some brainwashing thing that forces them to stay the way they are.
     
  2. How can you possibly know that? The top scientific minds in research dont even know that yet. What's the harm in continuing to try to look for something better? Years ago, the same thing could have been said for depression or anxiety or any other number of things.
     
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  3. No, a penis or a vagina definitely doesnt "define" anyone. But it is a part of someone, and it's a part someone is free to say they are not sexually attracted to.
     
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  4. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    I like my women without penises. I also like penis-free women, who also never had a penis, competing in women’s sport. Lastly, government money should never go to trans surgery, as much better and urgent alternatives should be funded, such as cancer treatment. Other than that, I honestly don’t care what you identify as.
     
  5. And theres nothing wrong with that. Any more than a lesbian saying she prefers her women without penises. I doubt anyone would be acting like that's discriminatory if you were a lesbian woman making the same statement.
     
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  6. Ra's Al Ghul

    Ra's Al Ghul Fapstronaut

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    You can deny reality, but you can't deny the consequences of denying that reality. -Ayn Rand
     
  7. Ra's Al Ghul

    Ra's Al Ghul Fapstronaut

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    I seen enough Nightmare webm's on pol regarding this subject. Its absolutely mental illness.
     
  8. Ra's Al Ghul

    Ra's Al Ghul Fapstronaut

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    B b b b-ut what if that benis were feminine, would you like it then. /sarc
     
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  9. Ra's Al Ghul

    Ra's Al Ghul Fapstronaut

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    I'm an Intersectional non binary gender neutral fluid sapio pansexual. Capitalism has failed.
     
  10. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    Christian Fox likes this.
  11. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    @jwitcher I'm not gonna quote your post like you ask...BUT... I have to briefly say this (I do not expect a response and am not in any way forcing you back here, wether you choose to respond is your problem).

    You say "correct their identity" and the like. There would be no correction of identity, but a healing of an illness. You can be who you are and have a mental illness that endangers your life...
    I am for people with gender dysphoria. Which is why I think we should find a cure for it and stop saying its a social issue which it isn't. They are not being treated badly enough to have a 40% suicide rate, thats ridiculous.

    "I doubt they'd be up to changing it to put you at ease."
    Would they be up to, if such a cure existed, curing themselves of gender dysphoria to potentially save their lives?

    "their identity belongs to them"
    That's debatable but that's for another thread.....

    One more thing, there is no such thing as changing sex. You can get hormones but they only make you more masculine/feminine, not change your gender. You can get your penis cut off but that doesn't change your sex either.
     
  12. Hand Jive

    Hand Jive Fapstronaut

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    Personally just saw some hatred towards TG on this forum and thought it is wrong. It strikes me as weird that porn addicts can be so judgemental.
     
  13. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    tu quoque sir
     
  14. Because what is “better” for them? Think about it for a second, what else could they possibly come up with other than helping them transition? They obviously don’t want to create something that will help them in the way of transitioning to their desired gender, and rather the only logical thing in this society would essentially be like those bloody shady conversion therapy joints, or maybe possibly develop a “vaccine” like they’re doing for everything nowadays.

    Unless therapists work with trans folk and help with their issues on say depression or any type of issue if they have one before, while and after they transition.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2019
  15. What is better for them is not being suicidal. That's what I would like to see. I'm not saying I know the answer for how to accomplish that, but I'm saying that I don't believe we have found it yet and we should keep looking.

    I can think of tons of possibilities, and we will never know if people keep getting shut down from even trying. I think it's incredibly dumb to say that the only option is transition. I think trans people deserve better than settling for something that has such a low success rate, is dangerous to their health and wellbeing, and costs so much money.

    I dont have the answers for what solutions they will come up with. Obviously. If I did, then that would mens they've already come up with them and we wouldnt be having this conversation. I'm simply saying they should keep looking. What's the harm in that? There is no harm. I dont see what on earth there is to argue about here.

    No, those absolutely are not the only logical options, and I think its ridiculously ignorant of you to claim to know that they cant possibly come up with anything else. I didnt realize you had your PhD in psychological and medical research.... You cant possibly know that there is no other solution out there to be found, and I honestly cant believe, as someone who seems to care about trans people, that you are basically arguing that researchers shouldn't even try anything new and we should just settle for what er have, which is a mediocre "solution" at best.

    I refuse to accept that that's what's best for trans people, because it clearly isnt. Obviously the best case scenario would be to at least attempt to learn more about them and maybe find a better solution, at the very least for those who cant afford transition or dont want to risk the medical dangers of the process.
     
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  16. Idk who this is directed at, but I'm happy to let people do whatever they want. I've already said as much. I just want them to have good options to choose from, so they have a chance at true joy and dont have to settle for something that isnt always effective.
     
  17. I never said not to try anything new. What the majority of society seems to be advocating is a “cure”, that’s not a solution, and rather extermination.

    Oh and believe me I do care so don’t tread down that road mate as I truly do. While things like care, and treatment could be better, transitioning is a viable solution. Not only are these studies small scale, they’re flawed for a number of reasons, not to mention the whole notion that suicide rates remain the same after transition is just utter codswallop and makes no sense.

    I want more support from therapists and for them to help trans folks with underlying issues before and during their transition, a lot have things that need sorted out that won’t be corrected with transitioning.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2019
  18. Well that's all I'm advocating for, so if you arent arguing against that, then I dont understand why we are even having this conversation.

    I've heard people with gender dysphoria, who are trans, who have transitioned, say that if there was a magic cure for gender dysphoria, they would be thrilled and would take it in a heartbeat. This has nothing to do with discrimination or "extermination." I just want people to have the best chance at true peace, and if a magic cure existed that could do that, then yeah, I think that would be a wonderful thing.

    This is like saying that if I wanted a cure for anxiety, I hate people with anxiety and I'm trying to exterminate them. No, I'm not trying to exterminate them. I'm trying to exterminate the debilitating thing that causes them pain and suffering. There's nothing hateful about that. The problem is that people put way too much of their identity in their gender and sexualities. If having gender dysphoria is causing someone suffering and they could take some magic pill that would make it go away and make them totally happy in their own body, saving them tons of money and time and physical pain and discomfort and medical risks of surgeries, why on earth would anyone want to deny them that? Of course that would be a better option! Those people will not be "exterminated." They will still exist and they will still be themselves, just themsleves without gender dysphoria. I absolutely refuse to give into the implication that anything I'm saying here is wrong or transphobic or some crap. I think it's absolutely bonkers that you cant admit that it would be better if people suffering from gender dysphoria could have some magic pill that would take it away completely. That's clearly objectively what is best for them. I'm not saying that's possible, because I don't think it is (a magic pill, I mean). But if it were, that would obviously be the least risky, best possible solution that would save them time, money, pain, and risk.

    I never said it wasnt. When have I ever said here that transitioning isnt a viable solution? I simply stated the true fact that it doesnt always work out for everybody, its risky, there are potential medical risks like infertility and losing the ability to orgasm, among other things, and that it costs a shit ton of money. If theres any small chance that we could find a solution that is easier and less invasive, why wouldnt we try to find it?

    I'm not the one who even posted anything about those studies, so idk why you keep bringing that up. But I have heard a lot of things that contradict what you've said, from viable sources (i.e., actual trans people). But whatever, I guess those legitimate claims from people who have actually undergone transition and know what they're talking about dont matter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2019
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  19. This isn't about me. It's not my assistance I'm talking about, it's medical assistance. And no, they can't magically figure things out without medical assistance. Transition is medical assistance, as is therapy and whatever else they use to cope with dysphoria. And transition is a fine option, but I dont see anything wrong with saying we should keep looking for something better.

    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now, because nothing I'm saying here is offensive. All I'm saying is that researchers should keep going and see if they can figure out something even better than transition. What is there to disagree with about that?
     
  20. Honestly, this is probably not worth arguing about at this point. We both just want what is best for trans people, we just apparently have a different idea of what that is. I dont personally understand what could possibly be wrong with wanting there to be a cure for gender dysphoria. I also dont see anything wrong with wanting to "exterminate" gender dysphoria (which is not the same thing as wanting to exterminate the PEOPLE who have gender dysphoria). In an ideal world, I would want to exterminate anything that brings people suffering. But I've said everything I can really say on the matter, so that's that. We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.
     
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