Free will and nofap

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Infinite spirit, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. DucksInARow

    DucksInARow Fapstronaut

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    This is the clearest explanation of free will Ive ever heard, apply it to Nofap or anything else for that matter.

     
    intelligentignoramus likes this.
  2. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    I don't think you understood what i was writing
     

  3. No, I did. My point is, you don't have free will if:
    1. You feel inclined to participate in NoFap
    2. You cannot, on a whim, manifest/create a phantom hand to jerk your man meat
    3. Decisions and choices are not the same thing as free will. Whoever created the beautiful mess we find ourselves in may have actually had free will, since it/they/he/she...whomever, created something out of nothing.
    4. We may be able to reach into nothing to grab ideas,blueprints, and concepts to create...but we cannot create physical items without something physical....at least in the forms that we find ourselves in, here and now
     
  4. excellent contribution. Thank you
     
    DucksInARow likes this.
  5. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    I have no clue what your trying to argue. But i would like to make a couple of counter arguments.

    1: How is it that if you are inclined to nofap, you don't have free will? how can you prove this point? if anything this shows that you do have free will because your body is inclined to masturbate but you have the will to fight against those desires.

    2. I don't think you understand the analogy i was using by the phantom hand so we'll ignore it and move on.

    3. No, decisions and choices are not the same as free will, but they are the product of your free will. Just as the movements of your body are not the same as your soul or 'mind' but they are a product of your mind.

    4. You talk about an idea, which i want you to really think about what an idea is. Does it have weight? does it have length? is the idea nothing more then your brain fizzing? and if so how does this fizzing originate an idea?

    My point is, often times we minimize the power of the mind which is not the same as the brain. The mind is what manifests your will and idea's and any concept that has no physical attributes.
     
  6. fapequalsdeath

    fapequalsdeath Fapstronaut

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    People: Do we have free will? Philosopher: We don't have a choice.
     
    intelligentignoramus likes this.
  7. My point is that the normal human being has limited will. An individual who has trained on the path of any master has will. Those who have attained mastery, through whichever chosen path, has come close to attaining free will.
    If you understood the principle of polarity and vibration then you would understand that there are different types of will, most of them are not free, as they keep us chained to the matter world.
    My point with the phantom hand, unless of course you had some deep and profound analogy, is that unless you can manifest this phantom hand, with just your mind and will, on the spot to reach through dimensional doorways or whatever path of entry into our perceived reality, and then control this phantom hand into wrapping its fingers around your dick, then you have not attained free will. You have will but you have the will of an evolved animal attempting to understand what the Mind is from an evolved animals attempts to rationalize what the Mind is.

    One question. Why do you participate in NoFap?
     
  8. This is probably the best answer to the question of free will. Did you come up with this? If so, fucking bravo, genius... If not, where did this come from?
     
  9. fapequalsdeath

    fapequalsdeath Fapstronaut

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    It's a joke, haha. Heard it on couple of talks about free will :)
     
    intelligentignoramus likes this.
  10. Well, there's the paradox, plainly stated in a joke. Fuckin love it!
     
  11. Nheylmlh

    Nheylmlh Fapstronaut

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    All humans have free will. It is common mistake among old school philosophers.
    You can see it just by looking at humans vs animals.
    Humans can resist animals can't
    It doesn't mean that you can't infulence other people by knowing how people think but you could never make someone do it 100% because again the moam you could do is influence someone and not choosing for him.
    BTW I believe that old school philosophers thought that way cause it gives you privilege to do anything...
    Anyone can fell it is not true think about how a judge will respond to someone claiming to no be innocent cause he/she doesn't have a free will.(while people with mental problems are treated differently and are not getting jailed)
    I wish you best of luck and don't believe any "science study" you here about, there are many fakes and many that are not qualified to do it or just don't know how to do it correctly
     
  12. DucksInARow

    DucksInARow Fapstronaut

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    yep, genetically and environmentally programmed to resist.
     
  13. So, in ya'lls opinion, Free-Will equals resisting our nature?
     
  14. DucksInARow

    DucksInARow Fapstronaut

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    Nature resisting itself. You are ultimately nature, so you could only be said to have free will in that sense. You as Joe Shmoe ceretainly don't.
     
  15. Interesting choice of words.

    So,with this claim, are you stating that we only have free will when we choose to resist our nature?
    If that is the case, how important is it to maintain a constant state of free will?
    Also,does one have to resist bodily functions such as flatulence, taking a shit, pissing, eating, drinking water, sleeping, procreating...etc...etc........et cetera. If so....how do we truly know we are exercising our free will if we live in a cycle of necessities required by the nature of our physical being...such as sleeping, ingesting nutrients, mating, discharging bodily waste...et cetera.....ettt cettteerrraaa? For, if we are stuck in a cycle of maintaining our bodily needs, as required by the nature of our being, how can we ever know if we are actually resisting our nature, even if we make a decision which would be opposed to a desire or impulse? Where does the line get drawn?
    How far into the spiritual journey do we have to go in order to truly be able to utilize this inner intelligence, free will? Must we sacrifice our bodies? Our minds? Our ambitions? Desires? Attachments? Responsibilities?
    How are we resisting our nature at any point when we have goals and we establish plans in order to accomplish those ambitions? Isn't that the nature of nature? To Evolve? To Transcend? To become more adaptable in an environment and therefore be able to survive at a higher rate? Isn't that part of the fundamental laws of nature? The most primal essence of our very existence?
     
  16. Nheylmlh

    Nheylmlh Fapstronaut

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    Our nature IS Free-will.
    And it is not only resisting short-term urges it is many more like deciding what to eat what to do and so on.
    You are partly correct cause we have no choice but to breathe one cannot decide to stop breathing.
    But one can decide almost every aspect of his life even eating or not eating
    AGAIN free will is NOT about resisting it is also about deciding not to resisting...
    All of ower doing is free will.(even deciding if to drink diet cola or fanta
     
  17. 1978

    1978 Fapstronaut

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    No, we don't have free will. I've been debating this in detail with people on YouTube recently, and I'm starting to get a bit tired of it all. Anyone genuinely interested in free will should definitely read Sam Harris's book on the topic as well as watch his 80 minute lecture. He says it all far better than I ever could. I'm almost getting to the point now where I don't even want to discuss it with people unless they have either read Sam's book or watched his lecture, so utterly complete and convincing are his arguments on the topic.

    But for anyone too busy desperately trying not to masturbate to find the time to watch Sam Harris's lecture, here is a shorter video by someone else:


    And here's also a shorter video of Sam Harris himself:


    But you can still quit fap without free will. It just means that your desire to quit has to be greater than your desire to fap. Please don't confuse a lack of free will with fatalism. You can change, and you will change. But your ability to change is not a free choice. Either you have it in you to succeed at NoFap or you don't. Either the desire to quit fap is stronger than your desire to fap or it isn't.

    The most likely scenario is probably that you will sometimes succeed and sometimes fail. Just look at the stories from people here. The most common theme is that people tend to succeed for a while and then relapse. But prove me wrong. Go 90 days or more and put yourself above the average. Either you will or you won't. It's not for me to say. It's probably not for you to say either.
     
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  18. Nheylmlh

    Nheylmlh Fapstronaut

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    I will look at this tomorrow cause it is late now in my country and I g2g to sleep, but this kind of state of mind is a state of mind that will make you "loose" you could always say you have no free will and therefore didn't made any achievements. Maybe he says in the book things that sounds smart but be sure there are many other books saying differently. For example you could look at many infinity pardoxes you can't always understand everything and after you understand the thing that you thought you can't understand you find something else you can't understand if you are familiar with physicis you should know about the famous quote of Lord Kelvin: "There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement."
    My point is try to read other books Sam Harrys may be smart but there are many other smart ones
    Try look for NLP and things like that.

    Just look around USUALLY people who don't believe in free-will does not achieve great accomplishments in life(for many reasons...)

    BTW you do believe in free-will yourself deep inside and the proof is that you are still debating about this with us and in your eyes it should be pointless since what have no choice but to believe in what we believe(stopping now to debate just mean that you want to not believe but you already acted and this shows your true subconscious).

    There is answer to my BTW(I will let you find it by yourself) but the more you think about this theory and the more you are answering the "holes" in the theory the more you find that it is a bit absurd.

    IMPORTANT my point in this is go read other books on the topic (who claims otherwise) go visit a university that is close to your home and try asking a philosophers professor or something like that.
     
  19. 1978

    1978 Fapstronaut

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    No, quite the opposite, I've become more determined to achieve things recently, and I've been making great improvements in my life.

    Again, you are confusing no free will with fatalism. We can change and do change, and we should make an effort.

    A great example given in Sam Harris's book is this: let's say you want to learn Chinese. A fatalistic view would be that if you are destined to speak Chinese then you will end up speaking Chinese. But that's not how things work. In order to learn Chinese you need to go to Chinese language lessons and practice speaking Chinese.

    But the point in the argument against free will is that your desire to make the effort is not something you control. Either you have that desire of you don't. Either you want to learn Chinese enough you will make that effort. Same with NoFap. If you want it enough you will make the effort. The same is true with anything in life. If you want to improve yourself enough you will. But if you genuinely don't, you didn't choose that.

    I find it bizarre that you have decided for yourself that I believe the opposite of what I say I believe. Just from a bit of text on a screen you have decided you know what my beliefs really are. That's really strange.

    I actually lost my belief in free will several years before I read Sam Harris's book. Before I'd even heard of Sam Harris actually. It was not his book and lecture which changed my belief, it just explained it so well that it reinforced what I already believed.

    I can't put an exact date on when I stopped believing in free will, but at a rough guess it would probably be around 2012 or 2013. So it's not a recent thing really. And I'm making some great improvements in my life recently, with my belief in no free will still very much intact.

    I may indeed read books that argue the counter view, or listen to podcasts and watch videos. But you should definitely read Sam Harris's book and or watch his lecture. Seriously. Any possible questions or arguments you could say in favour of free will will be far better addressed by Sam Harris than me.

    In fact, to turn what you said back on you, I think you'll find that the more you get into learning about the reasons why free will doesn't exist, the more you will see that the very concept of free will is utterly ridiculous anyway.
     
    intelligentignoramus likes this.
  20. Everything exists. Nothing exists.
    Light to Shadow.
    Energy to Matter.
    Free will to.....
     

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