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Dopamine and just edging

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by nitsuj0786, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. nitsuj0786

    nitsuj0786 Fapstronaut

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    I have written about this before so I don't know if anyone else struggles with just edging and "keeping your streak in tact" I tried this and have failed every time. But everyone needs to know that if you have an addiction to porn then you are not addicted to PMO you are addicted to PM. The porn is what releases the dopamine not your orgasm. The high levels of dopamine cause your hard on, it is what that whole circuit is for. See a beautiful woman and be turned on. Not 18 beautiful women in a certain type of fetish, we were never made to experience that. Basically you can't edge to porn and keep your streak and if you are doing that. Then you aren't really doing yourself any good and you probably don't experience any of the befit of nofap. Again this is something I am working on also.
     
  2. IGY

    IGY Guest

    The following advice from Gary Wilson is available to read here: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/what-if-i-use-porn-without-orgasm
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Some men attempting the rebooting process believe that as long as they avoid ejaculation, they are successfully rebooting. This bizarre logic leads to a practice common to Internet porn users, called edging. This is masturbating up to the edge of orgasm, then stopping to cool things down, then revving up again. Three common versions of edging:
    1. Watching porn without masturbating
    2. Masturbating while viewing porn, but not ejaculating
    3. Masturbating without porn and without ejaculating

    Since a reboot is defined as no porn or porn substitutes 1 & 2 make no sense. Edging while viewing porn (or fantasizing about porn) is far worse than simply having an orgasm and getting it over with. Why is that? It all comes down to dopamine.

    Addiction-related brain changes and sexual (Pavlovian) conditioning are initiated by:

    1. Dopamine levels which are higher than levels attained through natural means (drugs, for example)
    2. Moderate dopamine levels that remain elevated for long periods
    3. Combo of 1 & 2
    If you are edging to porn you are combining naturally high dopamine levels of masturbation with the dopamine raising abilities of 1) exciting, novel visuals 2) searching the net for porn 3) finding surprising or shocking genres. Edging can keep dopamine levels elevated for hours, and train the brain to require constant visual stimulation, rapid-fire novelty, clicking from scene to scene, and your own hand. None of this matches real sex.

    High dopamine tells the reward circuit that "This activity is really, really important, and you should do it again and again.” Forget the possibility of addiction-related brain changes. Chronically high dopamine is conditioning your sexual arousal to everything associated Internet porn use. You are now training for the wrong sport. It's like spending your time hitting golf balls in order to become great basketball player.

    Worse than training for the wrong sport, you may be taking yourself out of the game all together. Dopamine is odd. It really shoots up when something is better than expected, but drops when expectations are not met. Rewiring your sexuality to Internet porn means you unconsciously expect to be a voyeur controlling your dopamine with a mouse. When real sex doesn't match porn, dopamine plummets - along with your excitement and erections.

    What about edging without using porn? Depends on your goals I guess. Keep in mind that YBOP is about Internet porn, not masturbation (hello nofap/reddit). Is it similar to simply staying close to the edge with a partner? Not exactly, because you are wiring your sexual response to your own hand. Having sex means you are wiring your sexual response to another person. This may be significant to visitors who are dealing with sexual dysfunctions.

    It's important to realize that sexual stimulation is by far the highest level of dopamine naturally produced. Dopamine is at its peak when on the verge of orgasming (edging). In the pre-Internet days, guys would usually masturbate, orgasm and be done with it - it might take 10 minutes or so. At orgasm, prolactin rises, which drops dopamine to baseline levels and inhibits its release. That normally spells some relief.

    Placing your foot on the dopamine gas, without ever hitting the brake (prolactin) results in a continuous state of cravings without satisfaction. This practice of edging calls to mind the earliest experiments on the reward circuitry of the brain in which animals would stimulate themselves over and over, braving electrical shocks and ignoring willing mates.

    In the end, chronically high levels of dopamine (in conjunction with a specific stimulus) are the trigger for addiction, as over-stimulation of the reward circuit leads to the accumulation of DeltaFosB, activation of genes, and specific brain changes. As the sustained molecular switch for addiction, DeltaFosB initiates both behavioral and chemical addictions. Yet one of its evolutionary purposes is sexual conditioning. It rewires the reward circuit to sexual cues in the environment and makes "sex" even more enticing. If your sexual environment is Internet porn, that's what your reward circuit expects....and craves...

    By the way, many who end up with porn-induced ED have a history of edging to porn. As one guy said,

    Is edging bad?

    Yes, in fact it's worse. The reason is simple: instead of achieving orgasm and ending it, you train your brain to be bathing in chemicals for hours. It's the worst thing you can do, bar none. The worst. If you began and realise what you are doing in time, stop or rush to the end. Whatever you do, don't keep the pace. Most of us weren't addicted to PMO, but rather to PEO.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
     
  3. nitsuj0786

    nitsuj0786 Fapstronaut

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    Great post, I read that article and have experienced it, if you edge you are getting worse and sooner or later you will be right back or worse than you were before.
     
  4. Phibz

    Phibz Fapstronaut

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    I hope you can come to see "reboot" as so much more than being about masturbation. You're depriving yourself if you're not. Accomplishing that 30 day streak doesn't mean anything if you don't put some work into yourself. Get educated about your addiction. Willpower is useless without understanding of this. Your mind continues to ask "Why?" or "Why not?" You need to be able to understand this. Just biting your lip and willing it not to happen isn't recovery.
     
    Kenji and Limeaid like this.
  5. Shai_Halud

    Shai_Halud Fapstronaut

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    great post, thank you
     
  6. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    Hi IGY,

    Thank you for your post. I have been looking for something like this for a little time.
    I'll probably redirect people to this thread in the future.

    See ya !
     
  7. Jamescrow

    Jamescrow Fapstronaut

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    Wow!! Thanks for taking the time to write all that. Really puts the science into pmo or peo ;) good job!

    I gotta ask are in the medical field?
     
  8. IGY

    IGY Guest

    No, as I said "the following advice" was "from Gary Wilson", the founder of http://www.yourbrainonporn.com so it was a copy and paste job. But thanks James. :)

    Congratulations on getting to triple figures (in the next 24 hours). Have you considered relating your experiences in the section on Success Stories? It would be awesome!
     
  9. Surfer

    Surfer Fapstronaut

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    This was really helpful. I think I've fallen into the "edging is ok" trap in the past. But this totally makes sense. It's actually worse for you, and I looking back, I can definitely see that that's the case. Times when I would edge for a few hours made me feel SO much more like an addict afterwards: longing for 'another hit' just hours (if that!) later, spending all day at work thinking about what type of porn I wanted to edge to that night, et.c..
     
  10. Ripcap

    Ripcap New Fapstronaut

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    If I watche po once for no longer than 5 and the same I'd say 2 weeks ago should I restart my counter? It's been a lil over a month and I haven't ejacualted from po at all but I have had some time with a couple girls. What do you guys think? Should I be still be seeing changes or did I just ruin my month long streak?
     
  11. Second_chance

    Second_chance Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for this thread! Last night I tricked myselft into watching P but not MO and it's was the worst I could do. I couldn't focus on nothing anymore and only wanted to get off. I relapse last night. But now I understand why. I have to get back on track for fuck sakes
     
  12. wake_up

    wake_up Fapstronaut

    Even if this gets a bit offtopic:
    What's so bad about resurrecting this (or an old) thread ? :p
    @Ripcap seems to be new, and lots of other users have a similar experience with edging ...
    I don't think it's bad, especially if the content is somehow useful (and I don't think there is a rule here on the forums against it)

    Interesting time unit :p ...
    Maybe to help you a bit:
    So it basically depends your definition and goals.
    (I used onle of the first google links https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/4fbtxj/easy_mode_vs_normal_mode_vs_hard_mode/)
    With this and my definitions down in this post, I'd say, as long you caught yourself & it was P only & below 10 min, (I) don't count it.
    Real interactions don't count as well (in normal mode).

    Yeah, that's mostly true, I needed several months to finally realize that !
    I'm no expert on neurochemistry, but not only P releases dopamine, O does this as well. Obviously P is enough to get you on hook and to crave for more (= MO). (I read some articles, and it makes (biological) sense for dopamine release during O to increase bonding, so we're just bonding more to the wrong stuff :emoji_confounded:)

    From my experience:
    At a several day streak,
    1. if I look at P for some minutes (more or less voluntary), I relapse to full PMO in about 50% of the cases in the next 48h.
    2. if I look at P & do M, I relapse to full PMO in about 85% of the cases.
    3. if I look at P for more than 15-25 min, I relapse in 95% of the cases in the next 24h afterwards.

    (I don't count 1 as an relapse, if I catch myself fast enough with *no* PMO relapse afterwards,
    but I count 2 basically as an relapse, because it involved voluntary M as well,
    3 is of course a relapse, even if I catch myself, cravings become too intense most of the time)

    So, with my case 2:
    Yes, your last part is 100% true, for a long streak & benefits of nofap:
    NEVER EVER edge to P !
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  13. maybe try a 30 second rule or something? our body and brain is so used to it we need to back off edging slowly, may take a few weeks to get past the edging process,
     
  14. just for a few times I mean, try a minute, or what ever, but slowly back of, do it less days a week, and less seconds each time. that is how I did it, now I do not edge any more at all, and I used to do it a lot, because I watched a lot of porn in the past.
     
    Hardboiled24 and Buddhabro like this.
  15. nitsuj0786

    nitsuj0786 Fapstronaut

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    @yukon if you can do that then that is great and I agree, but as for me that is now so easy. I say that because looking for under 30 seconds can produce a pretty big spike of dopamine in porn addicts and that will override most self control that they may have. I say this because i have tried the same and that is what happened. 30 seconds or a minute turned to an hour or more. If you can do that and you find that it is helpful that is awesome, but you don't trick yourself into believing you can do it and then you always end up with an hour or more each time. Good luck everyone.
     
  16. your right. the goal should be done at all. I guess I am at a different place. now I do need to stop all together, even f it is just with out the O. I did not realize, that would give me a rush. so now I need to stop that two, for 90 days at least.
     
  17. Duke of Gine

    Duke of Gine Fapstronaut

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    I used to edge when I was a few days into a streak. It always ended in relapse. Every single time
     
  18. So what about "edging" during sex with a partner without O?
     
  19. nitsuj0786

    nitsuj0786 Fapstronaut

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    @Broken3, why do you not want to O with a partner?
     
    Hardboiled24 likes this.
  20. I am/do but he is trying no PMO for 90days so he pretty much edges during but doesn't O.
     

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