Do We Have Free Will?

Determinism is a nice theory insofar as it allows the believer a rest from guilt and shame. I mean if theyre not ultimately responsible for their actions then they're not wrong, bad, evil, or corrupt. It's all fun when being philosophical, however, the same person who believes this won't practice it if someone was to make an offense against them, but I digress.

I think there needs to be a distinction between influences and causes. There are plenty of influences that can effect your decisions but ultimately you are the one who consents to their influence. If there is no freewill then there is no consent.

Even for you to accept a certain philosophical system to be true, you have to consent to believe in it, therefore expressing freewill.

 

That isn't true, since we can ignore these things. I'm sure there are plenty of times when you have ignored sound advice. Why? Because we don't automatically accept theses things or adhere to them without an act of the will. This is one of the biggest falicies ahtiests make when they say "show me proof of God and I will be a follower". They assume they're going to be able automatically follow once they have the knowledge, but knowledge does not guarantee action. You still have to will to follow and this requires a choice.

 

But if there is no choice then how can those offended be practicing compassion or forgiveness? Such things would be contradictory to the reality determinists propose exists. How can forgiveness be authentic if you have no choice in the matter?

 

We're getting all deep and philosophical here today! Well put!

 

I wouldn't say people are terrified of the belief but what that belief will bring. For example I'm not terrified of someone's belief that 2+2=5 until those people try to teach it as a being logical equation. That's when delusion has become accepted and when that happens it should terrify anyone and everyone.

 

This is like saying "The consequences of X being true would be very bad, therefore Y is true".

 

Not really. It's like saying Y is true because X is not only contradictory to all of the evidence we have and operate under but also because the believers in X don't even follow X.

 

It's funny because you're saying people are afraid to accept determinism because of their ego but fail to see the contradiction in your statement. In order for someone to accept determinism they would need to be able to have the ability to choose.

All of these reasons for why you think people fear determinism can only exist if the ability to choose exists. If there isn't a choice in the matter then no one is actually fearing anything nor can they be said to be egotistical.

Also why would I fear a belief that removes all responsibility from me for my actions? Ha!

 

Being offended, practicing compassion and forgiveness, all also determined. I've heard these kinds of things described as "moral sentiments". They are things we feel. They are connected to emotion. And we don't get to choose how we feel

I tend to agree with this. I no longer consider myself a Christian, but it sounds a lot like a secular way of saying that all people are sinful (can't help themselves) so therefore you should forgive them.

 

You keep doing this. You think that just because we have feelings that we don't choose means we don't choose what we do with those feelings. That's incorrect. I can feel forgivng but not forgive, just like how I can not feel forgivng but forgive.

See this is what I'm talking about. You can't say you agree without a choice. Also you oddly attribute to yourself the ability to leave Christianity when you didn't do anything, remember? You have no choice in the matter.

 

Hey I didn't choose how language works! The language we use, also determined

I also want to point out that people who argue that we have free will, face an inconsistency they need to explain. The same people will have no problem believing that things in nature operate according to causes and effects, that things in our own bodies operate according to causes and effects, that even things in our own brains operate according to causes and effects. But free will is the exception to all of this cause and effect. How and why?

OK I'm done for today! Good discussion everyone!

 

So you're not freely choosing to reply to me right now, correct?

 

You still choose to participate in the conversation. You were not forced to join or to reply. Even now you're not forced to reply to this message.

 

How? Freewill is the ability choose. Choice requires consciousness. Why? Because consciousness requires the ability to understand causes and predict effects. Without this all of our choices would be random. Freewill and cause and effect do not work against each other, they work WITH each other.

 

So, basically a person who has no purpose or reason to make choices is the only person who could be said to have free will?