Do PA deserve to be cheated on?

Deserve does not mean action, maybe?
Essence of empathy?

Perhaps I as an adult
would treat them
as if they are sick?

An eye for an eye
and all are blind.

If my boss backs into my car,
Do I key his tonight?

 

People deserve what is correct for themselves as their real self and how well they correspond in life with actions, this is the meaning of justice.

Murderers don’t specifically deserve to be murdered, thieves don't desrve to be stolen from, etc. Real punishment will always come from above if this is what youre hinting at.

Many times I don’t do my job correctly, Im grateful I don't get fired every time. Instead, generally at work people try to coach and listen to make sure the desired outcome happens. Other times they kick and scream about it, but yet Im not fired, as I still have a job to do that no one else can.

What would losing the job of the betrayer accomplish if they have a job that only they can do? This is something for the two to decide and want.

 

Someone on here compared PA to an emotional affair instead of a physical affair.
I've always told my husband I would be more hurt and upset by him having an emotional affair with someone than I would be with a physical one. And he found that hard to believe and felt the exact opposite. This is something we discussed before I knew about the PA (and we also had discussed that I felt porn was cheating, just to throw that out there).
So maybe that is where some of the confusion comes in. Some people find the emotional connection with someone else worse than the physical one (like myself).
Though having said that, my husband said he did not have an emotional connection to anyone with P. I get what he means, but it was emotional with dopamine/addiction.

 

Also those of you that don't get how it could hurt as much as a physical affair might want to read this thread. It has been eye opening to many.
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...nderstand-how-it-feels-spouse-of-a-pa.158654/

 

I did some searching, and there may be an evolutionary reason for men and women caring more about physical or emotional affairs. Here's some articles that might interest you, but of course take them with a grain of salt!
https://www.bustle.com/articles/17724-women-care-more-about-emotional-than-physical-affairs-but-why
https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/why-do-women-cheat
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...y-men-and-women-see-infidelity-so-differently

 

Same. I wonder if it's because we know first hand how horrible it is to feel our PA becoming emotionally disconnected bc of the addiction, & blaming ourselves for it. To know that your PA depleated your marriage emotionally & invested it on another person instead, is tormenting.

***Honest question for SO's & PA's****: what is more important to a person's survival in general (your boat is stranded in the middle of the ocean. It's just you & your partner): 1) emotional intimacy/connection from the partner or 2) sexual intimacy/connection from the partner?

Whatever option one agrees with should, in theory, be the option they'd be more affected by, right?

 

Hi Penelope,

Seems you've taken my comments to be a reflection of my personal views when I was simply demonstrating that depending on the couple, porn may or may not be considered an issue.

If you have looked at some of my other post you will see that we agree very much on the issue, in fact my definition of porn for me is anything that is sexually impure, it doesn't have to be porn it could be checking out a girls arse if it leads to further thoughts however I don't believe that would be the definition for most people and I we need to acknowledge that to be the case.

Clearly my desire to give a balanced view has caused you some pain and you felt a need to unload I just wish I wasn't on the receiving end, anyway if I've caused offense it was not my intention.

I do love my wife and it hurts that I have this monkey on my back but I am working on being a better man.

Cheers

 

Just to respond to @signmeup though that some can use P. We both are unexpectedly in the trenches here in a P storm, separated by an ocean?

You admitted the Monkey and so understand the power of P.
Saying “some can use P” can wait until you can stop and then understand the meaning of that accomplishment?

I say this point because of the lies and half truths surrounding the promotion of P use.

Saying these are not your personal views, means they are a general view of society and are part of the lies that promote P use.

@Penelope noted some good points,
to which you missed a response.

Noting simply that she “unloaded” on you, dismisses her point as emotional.

The trouble so much with P is content and those points were not addressed.

If this seems to be unloading, too,
It is
Fortunately, I use simple words that I hope have meaning and not hurt?

This may not be the place to praise innocuous benefits of P, just yet...

I do wish you the best
on your sobriety.

 

This question makes complete rational sense, and I really appreciate how you were able to make me see your perspective, but it doesn't calm male instinctual sexual jealousy over paternity.

Women don't particularly care biologically if their child is fathered by their primary relationship or not, because it's biologically their child. They actually have incentive to trick a guy to maintain resources for themselves and their children and not lose his support. For men, raising another man's child unknowingly is betrayal at the deepest level, and is effectively "brood parasitism". It's not just the SO violating trust and a mutual agreement, but an SO tricking a man about paternity is the SO threatening his genetic survival. Your SO being a threat to your own survival is the worst kind of betrayal imaginable. Women do have concern about men being violent and killing her and her children, right?

Men actually care more about their genetic survival than their personal survival. Men have that protective instinct, and will sacrifice themselves fairly readily to protect their family and friends and local community. Sexual jealousy is rooted in concerns about the threat to their genetic survival. Yes, emotional support is more important for personal survival, but that's short term, and genetic survival is about the long term. Men have known deep down that throughout history we've been effectively disposable, and our personal survival could end anytime due to injury from our work, predator attack, war, etc. That tiger could jump us on our next hunting trip, so to speak. A village with 10 men and 1 woman is in much more trouble genetically than a village with 10 women and 1 man. Humanity could literally survive genetically with only 1 fertile man, but not with only one fertile woman, due to the genetic bottleneck. This is generally why women's "sexual market value" is so much higher than a man's during her most fertile years.

While men do have a self-preservation instinct, and your boat analogy is extremely helpful in seeing your point of view, men generally don't care as much about emotional infidelity as sexual infidelity. That's not to say that an emotional affair doesn't hurt men, though! It just doesn't hurt as much, and that's just because there's a difference in drives and motivations. I think also, deep down women realize that men compartmentalize, and see emotional infidelity on the part of the man as showing a higher risk of losing him than it just being sex, and losing their protector and provider is perceived by women as an actual survival risk. On the other hand, men see sexual infidelity as an actual survival risk, while emotional infidelity is not.

 

Just to chime in, I think physically cheating is way worse than an emotional affair from my perspective as a women. To me the fear of an emotional affair (besides being hurt and violated) is that it would turn physical eventually. Then you would lose the one you love emotionally and physically and then there’s nothing left of the relationship.

Back to the original topic, I don’t think it’s fair to cheat on a PA (unless they cheated already and then I would feel like I get a freebie affair too j/k)
But I am filled with animosity towards my PA. I even told him he makes me
want to do to him everything that he did to me.

I want to lie to his face. I want to flirt with his best friend. I want to look up porn that would make him feel physically inadequate. I want to use a vibrator when he’s gone. I want to oglle attractive men I see in public and I want him to notice. I want him to question wether he can keep his family together.

All these things wouldn’t make me feel good about myself or our relationship but I want him to feel exactly like he made me feel. I want to hurt him like he hurt me.

At least I can recognize this and instead practice some self-control and find activities that are fulfilling and comforting to me and strive to move forward not backward.

 

Tell me if I'm understanding correctly:
A PA could be faced with a SO who has had a revenge physical affair. This opens the door to a potential pregnancy outside of the original relationship. The woman will keep & love the child regardless of the father. If the SO & PA choose to stay committed & raise the child together, the PA will be reminded daily of the betrayal of his SO AND he will have resentment that it was not his own blood-line reproduced?

I'm probably way off, but, I think I understand what you mean.

Fascinating to see it this way...makes absolute sense.

Again, let me know if I understand correctly:
Everyone, male & female, have basic needs (certainty, uncertainty, significance, love & connection, growth, & contribution). Men & women, however, have different primal needs. We are all prone to conditioning, whether it be society, environmental, or family influence. If I was stranded on a boat with my partner, the factors that have conditioned us in "the real world", would be gone & our primal needs as different genders would be laid bare.
Because I'm not stranded on a boat with my partner & we're in the "real world", I have not recognized him, as a MAN, with learned behavior/instincts/gender based primal needs that MEN embody because it's been that way since God made Adam; and he made Adam, to possess & use to his abilities more physical power over a woman.He made Eve (woman) to embody a nurturing, peaceful role to balance the male. Together, their primal needs fit perfectly together (or, they should).
Man hunts food & provides shelter. He judges his worth in life based on his primal needs (physical strength, protector). Therefore, when a woman physically betrays him, he sees that as the ultimate blow to his very core needs. He wasn't "man" enough.

Women keep a loving home & raise the children. They judge their worth based on their primal needs (communication, emotional closeness, etc). Therefore, to her an emotional affair or PMO addiction would be her ultimate blow to her core needs, as a woman.

Regardless if I'm understanding correctly, your post blew my mind. Thank you for opening dialogue to so many learning opportunities that will further allow me to view issues from the the male side. It truly does help in my healing as a SO to understand the male side of things. Thank you!

 

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say. You just said it more succinctly!

This isn't quite what I was trying to say, as I was coming from a scientific-evolutionary perspective, and you're coming from a religious perspective, but it seems we're saying similar things. It seems our perspectives on the primal needs are slightly different, but that's perfectly okay - it helps build mutual understanding, which is what we're trying to do here. I was only talking about differences in raw reproductive programming, but you elevated it to things such as self-esteem. Yes, men feel good and fulfilled if they can protect and provide for someone, and the responsibility helps give life meaning for them. Men need emotional closeness, but apparently not to the same level women do! I wouldn't have thought of communication as a primal need like food and shelter, but only as a higher life-fulfillment kind of need. That's very good to know! Men often don't understand when women talk so much, and just try to "fix" things rather than listen, because we're not seeing the communication itself as the more important thing.

Thank you, too. I don't understand the female mind very well, and you've been enlightening. I'm happy to have helped you understand the male side of things, and thank you for helping me understand the female side!

 

It's very simple, I try to frame my comments in either first person (my experience) or third person (general observation), if I don't agree with someone's comments then I will make my position clear.

Sure, @Penelope made some valid points but they were lost in the vitriol that ensued.

As I stated I regret the fact that my comments caused pain however nothing that I had posted justified a personal attack.

 

Anyway, back to the question 'do PA deserve to be cheated on'

No.

If you have such an issue with your partner's porn viewing or anything else that you consider a deal breaker in your relationships, and your partner is unwilling to commit to a course of action then walk, anything else is a compromise and will only lead to more pain.

Sure you love him, and he says he loves you but enough is enough, you only break yourself when you take a course of action which is untrue to your own fundamental beliefs.

If you're married and your main overarching view on marriage is no divorce then it's going to be a very difficult time and there is no easy solution however if your willing to step out and have an affair then you should be willing to call an end to the relationship first.

 

I didn't read through everything, it was getting too much back and forth for me. But everyone here has their own opinions and feelings and there is no 'this is worse/that is worse' IMO. If physical cheating is worse for you, you are right and that will hurt you more. If it is emotional cheating that cuts to your soul that will get to you. But someone who feels differently isn't wrong. Trying to convince someone that one is worse than the other when they feel differently isn't going to help anyone and just get everyone frustrated. What matters is how you feel and how you and your SO deal with it.

 

I was reading some of my old stuff & saw this.

You are a warrior. An absolute warrior.

 

No, no one deserves to be cheated on - are you looking for justification for your actions?
Yes the betrayal of using porn is that of cheating, how does the other partner cheating solve the problem or fix the situation?

 

No, my friend, I was just telling someone that had posted on an old thread of mine, that I overlooked at the time just how bad ass they were

Also, I have never cheated on my spouse, so no, I'm not looking for any justifications. I was a traumatized spouse back then just trying to understand the reasons people do the things they do & what/what not is justified in the world of sex/porn addiction when you're a spouse of one of those addicts.

If you want my opinion now, almost 4 months after starting this thread, it still remains the same; I don't agree with revenge sex because of betrayal: My morals & such.

 

Yep, and I was responding to the OP.