Confidence

Hello all.

Whilst I've only been here a short while, I've started or joined a number of threads. My conversations have always seemed to come back to one point - confidence, or lack thereof. I have self-esteem depths that would give the Mariana Trench a run for it's money. The issues surrounding it are many, varied, and have never been worked out after years of therapy. My reasons for NoFap are primarily to overcome this lack of confidence, or at least see if it works. There are also issues of efficiency, which is something I admire and aspire to in all things.

I'd like to note at this point that I low self-esteem long before I ever M'ed or O'ed, and because of issues I had (of unknown nature), I was actually when I finally did O, and even moreso when I figured out I could M. I don't want this to be a trigger, but I did want to raise it as an issue.

Regarding my lack of M, at this point I'm not having any of the psychological issues of withdrawal, and the physical signs I'm experiencing at this point are all within what is to be expected. My primary goal was to have female partners approach me for [INSERT], but my last few topics on this have seemed to suggest that not only is this unlikely to happen, it's probably undesirable. It would seem that I need to do interior re-modelling (don't most of us), to alter myself on some level. I've been cautious of this because I see 'fixing myself up' as living on the same street as 'being someone I'm not just to fit in'. I've had to do that a lot in my life, and have to do it in various parts of my job just to get by. I understand the 'not giving a f*ck', but given my eye for detail and efficiency, it can be very difficult at times, especially in a job the requires both a focus on safety and a relaxed and adaptable mindset.

My question is this; will confidence come naturally without MO over time, regardless of anything else in my world, or is am I going to have to try and get it from somewhere else. I've searched various methods form improving confidence, but have largely gotten advice such as 'smile more', 'practice kindness', and other nebulous intangibles that I earnestly practice, but without any positive results, and sometimes even negative results, eg; I work in rail transport, and will delay a train for someone to board it. I feel worse afterwards, not from running late, but because I don't feel better about doing something nice. I also have fears that hold me back (driving a car, exposed high places), and while I don't think they're related to confidence, there may be some causal link. I've tried walking across an exposed bridge, but it was a terrifying experience, not in the least bit exhilarating.

I'm considering hypnotherapy but am uncertain as to whether it would work on me (I'm neuro-atypical), and even if it did work, whether it would stand up to the rigors of modern life or be 'hacked' by someone who knew how to do it. I've considered getting a programme from a 'dating coach' just so I could acquire an included confidence hypnotherapy system that the creator put together to assist with issues. Am I weak-willed or taking the easy path for think about hypnotherapy rather than just plowing on with life without any tangible results.

At this point, I'd like to note that my continued lack of confidence is not influencing my urge to M, O or look at P. I further understand that when one undergoes a reboot they will experience a loss of confidence - my issue is that I never had confidence to begin with.

So, hypnotherapy? More counselling? Shots night at a bar? What is most likely to work?

 

First of all, thank you for responding. I've only been here a short while, but I've come to value your insight. (presently reading your journal when this alert showed up)

I'd like to say that this is my fear, but I'd actually go so far as to say that this is my expectation. Whilst I'm only a fortnight in, I've mentally prepared myself for all of the eventual roadblocks in my way. My concern is that, at the end of, say, 90 days, or 180 days, I'll have gained a reset in my thinking, have greater amounts of energy and so forth, but I'll still be the same old wet sponge I've always been.

Heh! That's funny. I've given up on having goals beyond the 'get up, work, sleep, repeat' routine. I have that down pat, but recent experience in the past ten years has shown that goals, or at least my goals, even simple ones that are moderately easy, get shut down. The most recent on that comes to mind was a promotion of sorts at work (becoming a train driver). Due to my test scores I was accepted into an early programme, and breezed through the theory-based learning. Once it came to the actual driving of the train, I knew that was to be my weak point. I have issues with manual control (mentioned below), and it took me longer to judge distances, speeds and stopping marks because I don't drive a motor vehicle (based on fears). I made a few mistakes during training (stopping short or long of the platform), and the managers in charge of my work area felt I was taking too long to learn. A Union rep had a quiet word in my ear, suggesting I request I go back to my previous grade, which I did and have been at since.

The last real, honest-to-goodness goal I had set and achieved was when I moved to Hong Kong when I was 22. I had wanted it for years, and finally got myself there. I was still alone and invisible to women, but I was at least in the city I wanted. Of course, an innocent Happy New Year phone call to an ex turned my thinking around, and I walked away from the city at the end of my contract. The relationship petered out about 12 months later.

Goals are awesome, I just don't seem to see the worth of setting them for myself.

Anxiety and depression, most likely stemming from my late (two years ago) Autism Spectrum Disorder. I had been seeing a Psychiatrist for months, and when I brought up the possibility, was quickly shut down. After speaking to a Physician about general mood and mindset issues, he suggested it, put me in for testing, and... Voila! What probably reads as OCD to a lot of people is just my responses to finding places of order in a chaotic world. I'm not sure where the phobias stem from, but a lack of confidence has me not wanting to face them. I recall laying in bed a week or so, trying to imagine myself on the outside of a tall building, and I was giving myself anxiety - not pretty.

This is something I've considered on and off for the better part of a decade, and can objectively see how it would be an investment in myself. I make an effort to find out whether the people I'm paying attention have respect for women, their clients and themselves, because there are a lot of nasty 'old-school PUAs out there.

Asking the question doesn't mean I'll necessarily learn it. Then again, I should take heart from the progress I'm reading about you making. I'm starting to think that this might be much harder work than giving up PMO.

Thank you again, for everything.

 

Thank you for your replies.

Ain't that the truth. My head is one place where I work things out. I used to escape a lot into fantasy inside my head, but I've come to the realisation that probably isn't healthy unless I were to want to become a writer.

That sounds remarkably easy. I may even have seen it somewhere before. I've written it down to reflect on in future.

I'll use my job as an example, and while I'd question whether it took courage to undertake it (despite pretty merciless teasing by everyone else in the training course), I think I can see where courage would fit in; the courage to question decisions I made by others I have issues with, the courage to know when to hold to the rules and when to go easy on them. The courage to simply get out of bed and go in every day. (I have a reputation among the rostering clerks for never calling in sick - not accurate, but it's nice to think about) Through all of these actions I've become competent at my job, and actually feel pretty confident hanging out the side of train as it leaves a station.

I think I've got a grasp of it. Internalising it and practicing it mentally will take more work.

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Not only do I believe this, but I question it when people don't do this. Why wouldn't you engage in an activity that was destined to succeed? I met young aspiring actor once, who had travelled 1,700km just to hang around movie sets in the hope of being hired for a film. He had a girlfriend and a job back where he'd come from, but the fact that the film had started shooting was all he needed. His agent hadn't said anything to him about the possibility of work for the film, but he just believed that he would be picked if he showed up and hang around outside the set. I saw no signs of forethought or planning on his behalf, and I felt uncomfortable being around him, as someone had invited him to stay where I was living at the time. (I'd consented, but I'm generally weak-willed when it comes to others asking things of me)

Again, this is going to be something I need to remember more. Thank you.

I'm in my current profession after finishing what is essentially a Liberal Arts degree and finding that I just wasn't what various agencies, (of the alphabet soup variety) just didn't want what I was. That definitely hurt the confidence, so I considered what else I could be. I was accepted to both a graduate Nursing course and a Traditional Chinese Medicine degree in another city, but turned both down because I figured I would be more secure with some sort of income. I joined the railway in an entry-level job, and here I am. It brings in the money, and for 70% of the human population would be a great job once they get used to the hours. Guess who's in the other 30%?

Honestly? No, I never wanted to be a train driver. I didn't want to do it for the pay increase, or the perception of prestige it might have carried with it. I undertook the training for improved career prospects, and for the simple love of learning. I discovered once I actually got out onto the tracks learning to drive that my mindset was at odds with every tutor driver I encountered. Some were actually hostile to me, but I've since passed that off as my ASD rubbing people the wrong way. I've been asked since whether I would want to become a train driver again and my answer is a pretty emphatic 'no' - I get to deal with enough ignorance already.

I've certainly got a friend or two who would be willing to help me. I just recall my father trying to teach me to drive when I was 16, despite my lack of interest. He was talking and badgering me to do it all day, and when he finally did, couldn't understand why I didn't know where brake, accelerator and clutch were, how and when to use them. My father is a good man, and has actually taught hundreds of people to fly aeroplanes. There are three people in the world he should never instruct however - his three children. My brother and sister both told me this years later, but apathy and no self-esteem on my part didn't get me out of the rut. The closest I ever came was when I was 21, involved with an older women (the one who finally made me O for the first time, ever). She mentioned all the lewd things she'd do to me while I was driving a car, so I went out sat the theoretical test three times before passing, but never got beyond that.

I'm more than happy to make my way onward in the streak. Despite occasional stray thoughts I'm not seeing what I'm doing at present as difficult or denying myself, and, as pointed out elsewhere, I'm concerned I'll hit 90 days and not see changes. I understand that work has to be to overcome things, hence why I'm not at gym - me with muscles would be laughable, but I had this rather earnest hope that my display of, for lack of a better word, willpower, would do some of the work for me. I was hoping it wouldn't resemble some of the relationships I'd been in, where I was committed and giving and the other party would rather be elsewhere. (Fortunately I think i have a better understanding on this now, if nowhere near good enough)

 

Questionite

You need to examine the cause of the symptoms. Sounds like you might be suffering a bit of “nice guy syndrome”

I’ve only just heard about it and started reading about it via book , ‘No more mr nice guy’ and it aligns very closely to me.

Always seeking approval or avoiding disapproval of women, no male friends lack of assertiveness.

Google it and see if you think that might be an underlying cause.

 

Thanks @TTC, I've just started looking, and yes, I can see that I very much fit into this category when I was younger. I'd say it stemmed from what women said they wanted rather than what they actually wanted, but I'm man enough to say that I thought 'maybe being nice will get me a kiss'. I was sufficiently romantic in my youth that sex was so far beyond my comprehension of possibility that I getting kissed by a girlfriend was pretty much my life's end goal.

As to what is matter now, I think, is a general case of apathy. I work, big deal. I clean the house, big deal. I don't see the need to even think of approaching women because, rather than fear, it would result, in my head, in a non-situation. Not healthy thinking, I know, and if I could find a reason to not be apathetic, maybe...

Honestly, heading down this streak (my first intentional one), has been easy because I'm not concerned about whether I ever have coitus again, though it sure would be nice. My honest goal, aside from wanting actually attract women to depth that they approach and 'work' for me, is confidence. I don't bother having dreams or goals or ambition, or getting outside my comfort zone, because I either don't think I can do it, or I don't think the effort expended would result in something of comparable value.

Like I said, not healthy thinking.

 

That's probably not an unfair assessment. I've not what one would consider conventional in my looks, even when I attempt to fit within the mainstream, and constant rejection by females in my teens (despite no M), made me believe I was ugly. As I got older, there were even a few case where strangers (whether on the street or in a chat room) would come up to me and flat-out tell me I was ugly. By the time I had a girlfriend tell me that I wasn't ugly (I never recall her saying I was handsome/attractive/whatever) I figured she was just lying to be kind. When a woman I'm involved with says I'm cute I get very annoyed because I'm not puppy and equating me with the adjective that best describes me as one is the equivalent if castration, regardless of her intent. Decades of evidence is pretty hard to go against. Yes, I'd like to be taller, and have a bigger member, but it's my looks, where even in a tailored suit, I'm still a pig. Seeing photos in other guys reboot logs isn't good for me, as I always see the base that they're coming from, which even when I was young, I just didn't have.

I'm no longer young, so my age can work against me.

If you're talking in a more general sense; maybe. I know that people have all sorts of difficulties, so I can't just blanket judge people.

I'm reading reports about the early days of a reboot, and I'm wondering about some of the 'side effects';

- loss of brain fog : I'm really doubtful of this as I've never really 'felt' it. My situation requires me to be organised and on top of things, so I couldn't say if things had improved.

- notice of females : Maybe, a bit, I would get a 'hello' or two while I was at work, but again, it's not something that didn't happen before. I did not that it seemed to come from young women, which was interesting from an evidence-based perspective.

- increased energy : Again, a little bit. The only real lifestyle change I've made at this point is caloric reduction to reduce weight. (at my last medical I was 168cm/5'5" and 95kg/209lbs). Early morning walks to work don't seem as daunting as they did, although I've often had a mindset of acceptance - 'it had to be done, I better do it'. I recall never having any difficult walking the 2.6 kilometers, but I seem more content doing it.

It's unhealthy because I should be excited and happy to be alive, embracing my full potential and climbing over obstacles rather than accepting my place as a cog in a wheel, doing a job that while well-paying, is so far below my potential, I'm hampering myself. There are days when I'm content in the role, but more often, I just use my apathy and 'acceptance' (see above) to go through it. I could point out innumerable issues with other people, and organisation, and society, but at the end of the day, it's my own fault I'm where I am. I don't want to just quit (that would be all kinds of stupid), but I need to find some way, some other way to grow as a person.

 

I'm not sure about that entirely. One of the reasons I used P, even when I was in relationships, was because the women actually made an effort, even if it was not just for me. Between single mothers, women involved with me while chasing someone else, and people with hangups regarding femininity, any woman who would make themselves up and put on something nice was more interest than any real woman was showing.